Suns Have Extended Barbosa

[nowagimp]

Diaw or Prince? This is such a classic contrast in styles it is all but impossible to compare. However, the problem is that Prince has been in the league longer and we don't really know how much Diaw's game will improve.

The main issues with Boris is going to be his rebounding and defense. These are both strength issues, so I'm comfortable he will keep developing. Still, I'm not so sure he's going to be a top rebounder this coming season.

This past season, Boris averaged only .192 rebounds per minute and only .168 during the playoffs. His best series was against the Mavs and that was only .216 per minute. This ranked him 61st amoung players who played enough to qualify by nba.com http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Rebounds.jsp?season=22005&league=00&conf=OVERALL&qualified=Y&position=0&splitType=9&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=7&splitDD=All+Teams&pager.offset=50 Kurt Thomas averaged .293 rebounds per minute and Amare's career rebounding is at .257 per minute. (NBA.com now converts per minute number into per 40 minutes, which is Diaw at 6.7, KT at 11.7 and Amare's career at 10.3.)

Because Boris was being used to back up nash as a playmaker(it takes alot of energy), and because marion tends to get alot of rebounds that are available because someone, like diaw or KT blocks out, I dont think his rebs/min stat is all that telling. This year with banks setting the table some, and amare taking some of diaws shots, I think you will see Boris' rebounding numbers go up. I think that the Diaw/Prince comparison is interesting in that both are nearly equally talented players. The question is: do you need to play Diaw at 4 or 5 for him to be effective? It is arguable that prince plays the 2 or 3 better than boris plays the 4, 5 defensively, its a pretty big difference. On the other hand, 4's and 5's make more in this league for equal talent.

 

[F-Dog]

The problem is that Boris Diaw is getting signed this year, and players seem to get a little more each year.

True.

If Boris signs for 5/$50m, I won't complain. I just don't want to see the Suns turn Boris into Tim Thomas and themselves into the 2000 Bucks.

On the other hand, 4's and 5's make more in this league for equal talent.

Yes, but Boris isn't a 5 anywhere but Phoenix, and a lot of teams wouldn't play him at the 4, either.

It seems like a big advantage for the Suns to run a system that allows them to play wing players at the power positions, but if the upshot is that they have to pay those wing players big-man money, the main part of their advantage will be negated.




I did think of one more thing--if the Boris deal is waiting on Kirk Hinrich and Josh Howard, there might be a KT deal waiting on Boris. There's no point in the Suns shifting into overdrive to dump KT's contract if the they're not certain they'll need to clear salary in 2007.

 

[Errntknght]

F-Dog, "Yes, but Boris isn't a 5 anywhere but Phoenix, and a lot of teams wouldn't play him at the 4, either."

Where the heck would they play Boris if not at the 5/4? He certainly wouldn't be worth a bundle on the wing so that leaves PG. He could probably do okay at that position but, IMO, he's not worth big bucks. It would certainly be a gamble to get him, expecting to make a PG out of him. The offensive position he gravitated to, and where he was most effective, was playing high post. He also did well taking smaller players into the low post.

Probably teams that simply would not play him at the 5/4 also wouldn't shell out 10+ mil a year for him.

 

[Muggum]

Boris was a terrific shooter by the end of the season. Never from three point land, true, but anywhere from 18 feet and in, he was pretty deadly. Remember the short baseline turnaround to beat the Mavs?!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think he made big strides much less huge strides. He's pretty consistent shooting jumpers as long as there is 10 feet of space between him and his nearest defender. He needs to make defenders pay for playing way off him.

Joe

for once I TOTALLY agree with George. Boris was hesitant and scared to shoot anywhere at the beginning of the season and for good reason, but as the season went on, especially towards the end of the year he progressed at a pretty high rate and actuallly became almost automatic from 15-17 feet out, either at the baseline or the corner of the key.

 

[nowagimp]

The single biggest issue for Boris Diaw is his shooting. If he had a consistent jump shot that he trusted the Phoenix Suns could have beaten the Dallas Mavericks without Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas, or Raja Bell. Until he gets a consistent shot his defender should end most likely will play him like Diop on the perimeter. This allows them to stop his penetration as well as play helped defense around the basket.
Joe

I agree and add that in the case where Boris' defender is way off him, he needs to put the ball on the floor from say 17 feet, take two dribbles and make it a 12-14 footer that he takes off the dribble. This will make people play up on him. He will need to develop a good quick release jumper off the dribble to really make them pay for backing off. Then the drive to the hoop should open up some. Right now, Boris seems to need too much time to gather himself shooting off the dribble. This is a required skill for a playmaker like Boris.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I think Barbosa played better later in the playoffs he still bugs me a lot at times but he is a great 3 pt shooter between Barbosa and Banks Nash will have more minutes to rest. Now hopefully we can resign Diaw soon and call it a offseason

 

[Joe Mama]

for once I TOTALLY agree with George. Boris was hesitant and scared to shoot anywhere at the beginning of the season and for good reason, but as the season went on, especially towards the end of the year he progressed at a pretty high rate and actuallly became almost automatic from 15-17 feet out, either at the baseline or the corner of the key.

I wish I had Synergy stats available for season splits. I didn't think he was bad on his jump shot all year as long as he was willing to actually take the shot. That's really the key. He only takes the shots when he is absolutely uncovered.

Joe

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wish I had Synergy stats available for season splits. I didn't think he was bad on his jump shot all year as long as he was willing to actually take the shot. That's really the key. He only takes the shots when he is absolutely uncovered.

Joe

I'll synergy stat you! Eh, I culd be wrong here as I only saw games that we re nationally televised and when I was home for vacation, but I just remember being scared to death whenever he shot during the beginning of the season and thinking he had improved his shot more and more as the season went on. Just my opinion.

 

[Muggum]

Barbosa just dropped 14 points on the US National team, and Brazil lost by a mere 4 points.

 

[myrondizzo]

Barbosa just dropped 14 points on the US National team, and Brazil lost by a mere 4 points.

what was the rest of his line? i searched everywhere for a box score but couldnt find one for that game.

 

[nowagimp]

I wish I had Synergy stats available for season splits. I didn't think he was bad on his jump shot all year as long as he was willing to actually take the shot. That's really the key. He only takes the shots when he is absolutely uncovered.

Joe

This is true, that Boris is now a good, not great, shooter when uncovered. The problem is he is too predictable. He will shoot the wide open shot or go all the way to the rim. His lack of a "between" game makes him too predictable taking shots as the clock winds down. His ability to pick up the dribble quickly and shoot the J is undeveloped. This is where his next improvement is needed. His inability to do this allows defenders extra time to recover off the double and contest the shot. As I recall, his accuracy on contested jumpers is not nearly as good as the open ones.

 

[arthurracoon]

Barbosa just dropped 14 points on the US National team, and Brazil lost by a mere 4 points.

i guess he also fouled out late in the 3rd quarter?

 

[Muggum]

I haven't been able to find a box score yet, just an article about the game.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm glad the US National Teams won... but go Barbosa.

 

[F-Dog]

F-Dog, "Yes, but Boris isn't a 5 anywhere but Phoenix, and a lot of teams wouldn't play him at the 4, either."

Where the heck would they play Boris if not at the 5/4? He certainly wouldn't be worth a bundle on the wing so that leaves PG. He could probably do okay at that position but, IMO, he's not worth big bucks. It would certainly be a gamble to get him, expecting to make a PG out of him. The offensive position he gravitated to, and where he was most effective, was playing high post. He also did well taking smaller players into the low post.

Probably teams that simply would not play him at the 5/4 also wouldn't shell out 10+ mil a year for him.

Most teams look at Diaw as a SF, I think. Certainly the Spurs do, and they're a team that has had consistent interest in him since draft day.

 

[BC867]

As I recall, his accuracy on contested jumpers is not nearly as good as the open ones.

Wouldn't that be true for just about every player in the league?

 

[nowagimp]

Wouldn't that be true for just about every player in the league?

"Not nearly as good" needs to be defined, I guess, since you have not noticed that Boris just does not shoot well on contested jump shots. I dont know what the stats are, but I would guess that he shoots less than half as well with a hand in his face. If he had a quicker shot off the dribble, I suspect that he would not have to shoot over defenders as often. I would also venture that Barbs, Bell, Nash, Marion, and TT ALL shot better than Boris on contested jump shots, especially off the dribble. Part of this is that all those guys do better at shaking their defenders for a jump shot. Boris does not shoot off the dribble well, so even if he shakes and bakes, it takes too long to gather and shoot. Leo has an akward shot that is easy to contest, but he has shown flashes of a pull up jumper that is effective. Boris has not exhibited that skill yet.

Boris Diaw is one of my favorite players, but I am not a blind homer who thinks he has a well rounded offensive skill set. He still needs work to be the best impact player he can be( a 10million+ dollar man).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Most teams look at Diaw as a SF, I think. Certainly the Spurs do, and they're a team that has had consistent interest in him since draft day.

I don't think anyone looks at Boris as a 3. Like I said in another thread - according the Suns international scouting director (who has watched him for years) - Boris is a 1 or a 4 - maybe a 5 in a certain situation like here. He is never going to be a 2, and almost certainly not a 3. He isn't fast enough on the perimeter to guard a SF and his offensive game doesn't come close to resembling a swing man.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

As I recall, his accuracy on contested jumpers is not nearly as good as the open ones.

To back up how extreme the difference is:

Catch and shoot when open - 1.07 PPP, 50.52%, 53.61 aFG%, 47th NBA percentile

Catch and shoot while guarded - .64 PPP, 30.56%, 61.94 aFG%, 15th NBA percentile

 

[nowagimp]

To back up how extreme the difference is:

Catch and shoot when open - 1.07 PPP, 50.52%, 53.61 aFG%, 47th NBA percentile

Catch and shoot while guarded - .64 PPP, 30.56%, 61.94 aFG%, 15th NBA percentile

thanks for the info, its quite revealing about where Boris needs to concentrate his skills development(plus pull up jumper and left handed dribble). Do you have any info on how he is jump shooting off the dribble?? I recall that he's very uncomfortable there as well.