Suns Have Extended Barbosa

[JS22]

I love the arguments between Cheese and Chap. Thank you for making all of my mornings more interesting!

 

[Louis]

Satisfaction is fleeting as long as Boris Diaw's situation looms. With amicable negotiations still far apart, Diaw has until Oct. 31 to sign an extension or become a restricted free agent in July.

"If it works, we'll do it," Sarver said. "If not, we won't. It's just like last year. It will all work out. If he signs, it'll work out. If we don't get him signed, it'll work out, too."

From Paul Coro at the AZ Republic.

He's not gonna be signed this summer.

JJ Fiasco, Part Deux?

With D'Antoni on record earlier this summer saying they weren't going to bid against themselves, things aren't looking good for a Diaw/Suns agreement.

If he goes out and has a huge World Championships, his price will even go higher.

 

[Chaplin]

From Paul Coro at the AZ Republic.

He's not gonna be signed this summer.

JJ Fiasco, Part Deux?

With D'Antoni on record earlier this summer saying they weren't going to bid against themselves, things aren't looking good for a Diaw/Suns agreement.

If he goes out and has a huge World Championships, his price will even go higher.

October 31st is still 11 weeks away. That's a long time.

 

[Louis]

I wonder what's a bigger number?

- The difference in numbers in the negotiation

- Or the distance in time to 10-31

 

[George O'Brien]

From Paul Coro at the AZ Republic.

He's not gonna be signed this summer.

JJ Fiasco, Part Deux?

With D'Antoni on record earlier this summer saying they weren't going to bid against themselves, things aren't looking good for a Diaw/Suns agreement.

If he goes out and has a huge World Championships, his price will even go higher.

But only if someone with cap room decides to bid. Right now Wilcox, Gooden, and Wells are all trying to work out sign and trade deals. This is because no one with cap space is bidding more than MLE because they don't have the cap space. This summer, the only "big" free agent moves from one team to another were Peja and Ben Wallace. Nene was a result of the Nuggets competing with themselves.

As it is now, Wilcox and Gooden seem likely to sign one year deals which will put them back into the pot next summer. Some of the other free agents coming up next summer competing for above the MLE include:

Kirk Hinrich RFA
Josh Howard RFA
Chris Kaman RFA
Andres Nocioni RFA
David West RFA
Darko Milicic RFA
Andray Blatche RFA

Jerry Stackhouse
James Posey
Joe Smith
Eddie Jones

The only way most of these guys get above the MLE deals is from teams competing with themselves or as part of "sign and trade" deals. As it is, there are only three teams likely to have serious cap space next summer: Charlotte, Orlando, and Atlanta. Charlotte has Okafor and Orlando has Howard, so they don't look to be in the market for any of the power forwards and certainly not for $10 million a year. (There is no possible way Atlanta bids considering how much Boris is a reminder of how stupid they are).

This is what the D'Antoni is talking about when saying they won't compete against themselves. RFA's rarely leave teams that want to keep them and playing out until unrestricted free agency is a horribly riskly strategy for any player. Even after two years, Boris may still be forced into a sign and trade to get more than MLE.

This means that Diaw's agent doesn't have all that much leverage. For the Suns, I don't get the impression that Boris has any of the ego problems that JJ exhibited. For JJ, it was about more than the money. With Boris, it is more likely to be strictly business.

 

[Louis]

All those players you listed and none of them have similar talents to Diaw.

Josh Howard will be inked with Dirk by Cuban.

Stackhouse, Posey, Smith, Jones, are all "over the hill".

Blatche who? Milicic will be cheap cause he hasn't done squat....yet.

Hinrich will get some bucks. Kaman will remain a Clipper.


Chris Paul is on record as saying he would go to Atl to play with JJ. If that were to happen they'd be missing one BIG piece. A forward with skill.

Anything can happen in the NBA. Diaw will get big dollars. It doesn't have to be from Phoenix. And shall this continue, it won't.

It'll solve some tax problems for the Suns too. Marion can remain a Sun and they'll only have KT's contract to contend with.

If Atl does good/bad enough to get the #4 pick for Phoenix, the Diaw situation is resolved because a guy like Thaddeus Young is available. Tiago Splitter should no longer have the huge buyout above his head either.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

From Paul Coro at the AZ Republic.

He's not gonna be signed this summer.

JJ Fiasco, Part Deux?

With D'Antoni on record earlier this summer saying they weren't going to bid against themselves, things aren't looking good for a Diaw/Suns agreement.

If he goes out and has a huge World Championships, his price will even go higher.

This is making me sick...our priority from the beginning of the summer should have been to have Boris resigned. He is young, immensely talented, and a perfect fit for our offense. This situation has JJ part 2 written all over it. Hemming and hawing about extending him before the contract is up, waiting until the next offseason to see somebody offer him a max deal. Right now, Diaw is arguably the most important player to our long term future, and should have been taken care of before Barbosa. With little chance of starting at either PG or SG, Barbosa is a very nice player, but a luxury player on a team that may not be able to afford luxuries. Sarver has intimated on many occasions that he is going to pay the luxury tax, so something has to give. Next summer, if it is a Marion vs. Boris decision, I hope the Suns make the right choice...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The only way most of these guys get above the MLE deals is from teams competing with themselves or as part of "sign and trade" deals. As it is, there are only three teams likely to have serious cap space next summer: Charlotte, Orlando, and Atlanta. Charlotte has Okafor and Orlando has Howard, so they don't look to be in the market for any of the power forwards and certainly not for $10 million a year. (There is no possible way Atlanta bids considering how much Boris is a reminder of how stupid they are).

This is what the D'Antoni is talking about when saying they won't compete against themselves. RFA's rarely leave teams that want to keep them and playing out until unrestricted free agency is a horribly riskly strategy for any player. Even after two years, Boris may still be forced into a sign and trade to get more than MLE.

This means that Diaw's agent doesn't have all that much leverage. For the Suns, I don't get the impression that Boris has any of the ego problems that JJ exhibited. For JJ, it was about more than the money. With Boris, it is more likely to be strictly business.

unfortunately boris would look great next to either howard or okafor.

 

[Cheesebeef]

"Charlotte has Okafor and Orlando has Howard, so they don't look to be in the market for any of the power forwards and certainly not for $10 million a year".

Good lord George - this makes zero sense whatsoever - on the one hand, Charlotte and Orlando BOTH have back-to-the-basket CENTERS so they wouldn't nbe in the market for a versatile face up PF like Diaw? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

Then, the other whopper - Atlanta wouldn't revisit Diaw because it would make them look stupid? ATLANTA ALREADY LOOKS STUPID. NOT going after to Diaw to try and remedy their mistake would make them look EVEN WORSE.

Not to mention, they don't have a PF either.

Right there you listed THREE teams - all of them lacking a PF with skills like Diaw who could offer him a huge contract and this doesn't even take into account that during the season, there's bound to be someone else (like the Suns a couple years ago) who make a deal to get cap room for next summer.

 

[SunsTzu]

There is 0 chance Diaw goes back to Atlanta. I heard rumors that the Magic are more intrested in Howard if he doesn't get extended, though I could see them being intrested. The Bobcats may be a viable option depending on how they plan on using their forward rotation of Okafor/May/Wallace/Morrison.

 

[fordronken]

Why I Love Barbosa

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0805barbosa0805.html
http://www.nba.com/suns/news/barbosaqa_060804.html
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sec=62

"I never thought about it and I never will," Barbosa said of playing for another team. "I wanted to be here my whole life and I will work for that."

"It's a dream," he said. "My other dream is to bring a championship to the Suns."

"I’m very happy to have these experiences here with the team, especially since Dan D'Antoni came to help me. I really appreciate that Mike D'Antoni saw good things in myself to bring his brother to come and help me. I’m very happy to have him in my life because he’s really changed my life and my style of play. It really helped the team and myself. That was a really good situation for me."

“It’s going to take a day or two before I believe that this is done. It’s incredible,” Barbosa said Friday, before returning to Brazil and its national team, which is preparing for the upcoming world championships. “My family was very humble (growing up) and my first contract changed everything for us. This contract, I can’t even understand what it means. It’s wonderful.”

 

[boisesuns]

This is making me sick...our priority from the beginning of the summer should have been to have Boris resigned. He is young, immensely talented, and a perfect fit for our offense. This situation has JJ part 2 written all over it. Hemming and hawing about extending him before the contract is up, waiting until the next offseason to see somebody offer him a max deal. Right now, Diaw is arguably the most important player to our long term future, and should have been taken care of before Barbosa. With little chance of starting at either PG or SG, Barbosa is a very nice player, but a luxury player on a team that may not be able to afford luxuries. Sarver has intimated on many occasions that he is going to pay the luxury tax, so something has to give. Next summer, if it is a Marion vs. Boris decision, I hope the Suns make the right choice...

I think having Diaw is also nice considering Amare's unknown.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Diaw's versatility will have alot of teams thinking they can get him to fill whatever slot they have available, from pg to center. Kind of like Atlanta getting JJ as a pg.

 

[George O'Brien]

I have no doubt everyone would LIKE to have Boris. What is at issue is whether any of them can afford to pay Nene prices for what he offers. Remember, they will only go for Boris IF they believe the Suns won't match. How high would the Suns not match?

To pay Nene prices, there has to be a heck of lot more than LIKE involved. My guess is that the Suns are comfortable in the $40 million over five year range. There is certainly a price beyond which the Suns wouldn't match, but it would be high enough to scare off anyone other that a despirate suitor.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no doubt everyone would LIKE to have Boris. What is at issue is whether any of them can afford to pay Nene prices for what he offers. Remember, they will only go for Boris IF they believe the Suns won't match. How high would the Suns not match?

To pay Nene prices, there has to be a heck of lot more than LIKE involved. My guess is that the Suns are comfortable in the $40 million over five year range. There is certainly a price beyond which the Suns wouldn't match, but it would be high enough to scare off anyone other that a despirate suitor.

5 years 40 million is a freaking joke. That's basically paying Boris a little more than 1 million dollars more than Barbosa - that ain't realistic at all. If that's what the Suns are offering - especially in light of the fact that apparently finding suitbale pieces to DA's puzzle are few and far between, then the front office is clueless.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

If that's what the Suns are offering - especially in light of the fact that apparently finding suitbale pieces to DA's puzzle are few and far between, then the front office is clueless.

5 years 40 million (if indeed the offer) for a proven playoff contributor, and a player who's ceiling is as high as any other big man is both laughable and depressing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

5 years 40 million (if indeed the offer) for a proven playoff contributor, and a player who's ceiling is as high as any other big man is both laughable and depressing.

luckily, that's just what George is surmising the Suns are comfortable with - which really means it has no basis in reality.

 

[Gaddabout]

For those that are upset that Diaw isn't signed yet, what would be the dividing line for you? At what point would you tell Diaw to walk? I don't know what Diaw's asking for, but the Suns rushed into Marion's contract not really knowing if they would get in return what they pay. They ended up giving Marion a superstar contract even though he's not a superstar. He's the best support player in the NBA. Diaw's game is very different, but in comparison to other players, his contributions to the team seem very much like Marion's -- he's not a guy who should be payed to be the focus of a team.

So what's the top dollar for Diaw?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

For those that are upset that Diaw isn't signed yet, what would be the dividing line for you? At what point would you tell Diaw to walk? I don't know what Diaw's asking for, but the Suns rushed into Marion's contract not really knowing if they would get in return what they pay. They ended up giving Marion a superstar contract even though he's not a superstar. He's the best support player in the NBA. Diaw's game is very different, but in comparison to other players, his contributions to the team seem very much like Marion's -- he's not a guy who should be payed to be the focus of a team.

So what's the top dollar for Diaw?

Diaw has certainly proven that he is worth at least 10 million a year, and has the potential to be one of the best, most versatile big men in the league. Marion is an excellent player, but if I had to choose betweeen the two, I would choose Diaw. Diaw, unlike Marion, can have an offense run through him, and can create his own shot. His upside at 24 is much higher as well, and his offensive game seems to only be scratching the surface. We're talking about a guy that Dallas, among others had no answer for in the playoffs, and a guy that fits perfectly in D'Antoni's offense. There is no excuse to lose Diaw, and he should be prioritzed as a a core player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

For those that are upset that Diaw isn't signed yet, what would be the dividing line for you? At what point would you tell Diaw to walk? I don't know what Diaw's asking for, but the Suns rushed into Marion's contract not really knowing if they would get in return what they pay. They ended up giving Marion a superstar contract even though he's not a superstar. He's the best support player in the NBA. Diaw's game is very different, but in comparison to other players, his contributions to the team seem very much like Marion's -- he's not a guy who should be payed to be the focus of a team.

So what's the top dollar for Diaw?

5 years 57 million. Even there I think it's a relative bargain. The next era's team is going to be featured around 4 guys - Barbs, Amare, Diaw and the Hawks lotto pick - that's a hell of a core to transition from one great team to the next next.

One thing about this entire situation still bothers me and that's Sarver's absoulte lack of tact. His devil may car attitude is such a turnoff, especially considering that we benefitted off the JJ deal by somewhat of a fluke as Diaw was just a throw in in the deal. We basically caught lightining in a bottle with the JJ deal, and we actually GOT BETTER because of it in the long run - that doesn't happen every day in the NBA, but Sarver seems to think everything he touches can just magically turn to gold, even though so far this offseason, we've been somewhat up and down as far as getting done what the FO has set out to do. I just don't get the whole - if he wlaks, he walks crap - would saying something like this: "We really like what Boris brings to the table and want him here for a long time. We're working hard to try and get something done" have hurt? Instead, he again sounds like hes trying to play hardball with a guy asking for market value.

I just wonder how long it is before we start hearing about how Boris, known to be a quiet, laid back guy, has been making ridiculous demands and how Boris never wanted to be a sidekick to Amare playing in the frontcourt and wants to be the man on his own team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

5 years 57 million. Even there I think it's a relative bargain. The next era's team is going to be featured around 4 guys - Barbs, Amare, Diaw and the Hawks lotto pick - that's a hell of a core to transition from one great team to the next next.
.

So what's a max offer? Has anyone gotten max money in this free agency period? Waiting and matching is not really a bad way to go, as long as you're getting close to max money anyway.

I really don't have a worry about it, if they choose to go that way.

My only concern is if Sarver somehow thinks lightening would strike twice, and thinks he can get as good a deal for Diaw as he did for JJ.

 

[Louis]

He does think that, or so his quote on the subject portrays it in that manner, IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

5 years 57 million. Even there I think it's a relative bargain. The next era's team is going to be featured around 4 guys - Barbs, Amare, Diaw and the Hawks lotto pick - that's a hell of a core to transition from one great team to the next next.

One thing about this entire situation still bothers me and that's Sarver's absoulte lack of tact. His devil may car attitude is such a turnoff, especially considering that we benefitted off the JJ deal by somewhat of a fluke as Diaw was just a throw in in the deal. We basically caught lightining in a bottle with the JJ deal, and we actually GOT BETTER because of it in the long run - that doesn't happen every day in the NBA, but Sarver seems to think everything he touches can just magically turn to gold, even though so far this offseason, we've been somewhat up and down as far as getting done what the FO has set out to do. I just don't get the whole - if he wlaks, he walks crap - would saying something like this: "We really like what Boris brings to the table and want him here for a long time. We're working hard to try and get something done" have hurt? Instead, he again sounds like hes trying to play hardball with a guy asking for market value.

I just wonder how long it is before we start hearing about how Boris, known to be a quiet, laid back guy, has been making ridiculous demands and how Boris never wanted to be a sidekick to Amare playing in the frontcourt and wants to be the man on his own team.

If the Suns have a fair offer on the table for Diaw, I can see this as a negotiating ploy meant for Diaw's agent. I can't say that I particularly care for this strategy and Sarver's wording. However, Sarver's statement does start to draw some parameters for negotiation if the two sides are not on the same page and gives Diaw's agent an idea (range) of how much the Suns are willing to pay maximum.

I would rather have some of this hashed out now than wait for Boris to become a RFA next summer. Also Sarver is giving the message not only to Boris' agent but the fans as well. If money is going to be the primary issue with Diaw then it is going to be the same with the Suns. Maybe this will get things rolling... or it may completely backfire. I would think that Diaw would want to remain a Sun and the Suns feel likewise and are not trying to low ball him. I think LB got a fair contract so I will give Sarver the benefit of the doubt right now.

IMO, the key is if the Suns have an extension offer on the table for Boris that is fair. I think somewhere around 55 million is about right but I would not haggle over a million or two. Anyway, I do not see the Suns strategy being presented as... they will keep Boris at all costs.

It makes me think that Griffin and Boris' agent have already done a lot of talking and since they are not on the same page, Boris is probably looking for Nene money... or more.

 

[Joe Mama]

5 years 40 million is a freaking joke. That's basically paying Boris a little more than 1 million dollars more than Barbosa - that ain't realistic at all. If that's what the Suns are offering - especially in light of the fact that apparently finding suitbale pieces to DA's puzzle are few and far between, then the front office is clueless.

Cheese, you and I have not agreed a whole lot this off-season, but I think we are in the same place regarding Boris Diaw. 5 years at $40 million is the kind of BS offer that started the JJ negotiations in the wrong direction last summer.

I would say 5 years, $60 million would leave me uneasy, but I could live with it. Of course will we've heard indicates that they are asking more like $10-11 million per season. If that's the case, and the Phoenix Suns don't get an extension done I will be upset. I would have preferred to trade Barbosa or even let him walk over losing Boris Diaw because of a $5-10 million difference over the life of his contract.

I still am not sure that all this talk means that they are any closer or farther away from an extension than they were at the beginning of the summer. I do think a lot of this is just negotiating.

The reason one upside to not re-signing Boris Diaw. That is that we would probably see the best from him next year like we did with JJ. If that extra effort is the difference in winning a championship I say great. Trust me though, I'll never use that as an excuse for not getting him re-signed.

So what's a max offer? Has anyone gotten max money in this free agency period? Waiting and matching is not really a bad way to go, as long as you're getting close to max money anyway.

I really don't have a worry about it, if they choose to go that way.

My only concern is if Sarver somehow thinks lightening would strike twice, and thinks he can get as good a deal for Diaw as he did for JJ.

I believe maximum money is 5 years, $80 million, but the deal LeBron James signed his 4 years, $60 million with an player option after the third season. I think that's right.

Oh yeah, before I end this post I just have to say one more time how badly the Denver Nuggets suck for screwing up the market with that Nene deal.

Joe

 

[Cheesebeef]

So what's a max offer? Has anyone gotten max money in this free agency period? Waiting and matching is not really a bad way to go, as long as you're getting close to max money anyway.

that's just the thing - a 5 year 55-60 million dollar deal ISN'T close to MAX money - it's 20 million short of it. That's why you get the deal done NOW instead of waiting until next summer when the market will ALWAYS inflate a player of Diaw's caliber - even as a RFA - remember, that guys like JJ, Kenyon Martin, Q, Odom - all those guys were RFA's who got much more than what people expected them to - it WILL happen next summer - Diaw, like JJ, will be one of the most coveted FA out there, and probably even moreso as most people believe that Sarver's threat to match JJ's offer last year was just that - an idle threat and Atlanta bit.

My only concern is if Sarver somehow thinks lightening would strike twice, and thinks he can get as good a deal for Diaw as he did for JJ.

his quote said this exact thing - that scares the crap out of me.What sacres me even more is someone calling our bluff and saying fine - match the offer. That's where we got lucky with Atlanta but as more and more evidence circles the league that could be construed as being that Sarver's got tight purse strings, people will begin to test us and I don't think Sarver or DA is savy enough at this point to get as good a deal as we got last summer from an obviously completely inept franchise like the Hawks.