Suns hire Frank Vogel as next head coach

[TJ]

Now let’s fire Mark Bryant

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is the story on Kevin Young getting $2 million plus as the Suns associate head coach.

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[overseascardfan]

I wonder if ARZ would consider Nate McMillan for an assistant coach position.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Of all bigs in the league, Ayton had the third best FG%A/game a couple of seasons ago. It’s all about mutual buy-in. If Ayton and Vogel are on the same page, it’s more likely than not that Ayton will come back motivated to prove people wrong

We've seen him play well but knew he could play even better. And we've seen him play poorly and then discovered he could play even worse. And for this, we pay him a lot. And now, the new CBA hurts his trade value IMO because the cost of high dollar contracts just skyrocketed.

Teams can no longer afford to gamble 30 or 40 million dollars on high risk projects. But despite our needs we can't afford to bring in an impact player or two. So I suspect our only hope for a championship this season or next rests on what Vogel and his staff can get out of DA. He's our best chance of putting a player on the court that can be a top level player on any given night. But if we trade him, it will probably be just the first domino to fall and we could well be in full rebuild by this time next year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wonder if ARZ would consider Nate McMillan for an assistant coach position.

I think that would have been a great hire if Young had been hired as the Head Coach.

 

[Mainstreet]

We've seen him play well but knew he could play even better. And we've seen him play poorly and then discovered he could play even worse. And for this, we pay him a lot. And now, the new CBA hurts his trade value IMO because the cost of high dollar contracts just skyrocketed.

Teams can no longer afford to gamble 30 or 40 million dollars on high risk projects. But despite our needs we can't afford to bring in an impact player or two. So I suspect our only hope for a championship this season or next rests on what Vogel and his staff can get out of DA. He's our best chance of putting a player on the court that can be a top level player on any given night. But if we trade him, it will probably be just the first domino to fall and we could well be in full rebuild by this time next year.

I can see it playing out this way.

However, if the Suns could trade Ayton for a couple of pieces that fit, minimally rotation players, I can see the Suns making another run. It's not so easy to accomplish, though.

Another option, if the Suns can get below the taxpayer MLE by trading Ayton's contract to a team that can absorb it and return picks and gain the larger MLE exception, they could work some deals that way as well.

 

[Proximo]

Of the buyouts, the Nuggets grabbed Reggie Jackson. That was a smart move, although the Nuggets have barely played him if at all in the playoffs.

Yeah he‘s done nothing, if he was playable he would be playing.

 

[clyde2tw]

The perfect C for Suns would be Brook Lopez, who is a FA. I'd ship DA for cap space and 2 first-rounders, if we'd convince Brook to sign the MLE.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah he‘s done nothing, if he was playable he would be playing.

This is not necessarily true. The Nuggets only like to play about 8 players. Their roster is much deeper than that, more like 15 players deep.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The perfect C for Suns would be Brook Lopez, who is a FA. I'd ship DA for cap space and 2 first-rounders, if we'd convince Brook to sign the MLE.

I could be wrong but I think those days are gone, that kind of Cap space in today's market gives a team a lot of leverage. Teams will be trading Ayton-type contracts and giving first rounders to make it happen IMO.

 

[clyde2tw]

I could be wrong but I think those days are gone, that kind of Cap space in today's market gives a team a lot of leverage. Teams will be trading Ayton-type contracts and giving first rounders to make it happen IMO.

It's all about opportunity costs. Say if the Spurs see DA's potential, but currently they are not luring any superstars interested in signing there as FA, their cap may better used on DA for 3 years. A gamble worth taking.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's all about opportunity costs. Say if the Spurs see DA's potential, but currently they are not luring any superstars interested in signing there as FA, their cap may better used on DA for 3 years. A gamble worth taking.

I think prior to the new CBA something like that could have easily happened. But I believe things have changed. We'll see.

 

[GatorAZ]

Nobody is trading for DA without giving us back equal/more $$ thru 2025-26’ which is why that Atlanta proposal makes some sense…

Some players making equal to or more than DA with multiple years on their contract remaining…

Beal
Lavine
Randle
Collins
Towns
Zion
Simons
Gobert

 

[Mainstreet]

One of the problems, there will be a lot of good players on the market with assets attached as team try to dump perfectly good players with larger contracts.

 

[Yuma]

On Locked On Suns podcast, there is a way to trade Ayton and gain as much as $12 million in cap space. So potentially we could trade for player(s) and assets that may be as less than $12 of Ayton's contract.

 

[elindholm]

I wonder if ARZ would consider Nate McMillan for an assistant coach position.

Why, because Phil Jackson would turn them down?

 

[overseascardfan]

Why, because Phil Jackson would turn them down?

Don't know if they would want another former HC on staff or another career assistant.

 

[CardNots]

can we get an “I luv this thread button”?

 

[Phrazbit]

Nobody is trading for DA without giving us back equal/more $$ thru 2025-26’ which is why that Atlanta proposal makes some sense…

Some players making equal to or more than DA with multiple years on their contract remaining…

Beal
Lavine
Randle
Collins
Towns
Zion
Simons
Gobert

Yuck. That is a brutal list. Many of those guys, I wouldn't take for free.

The only one I'd do is Zion... maybe out of the Bayou he'd be forced to cut down on fried foods and get his ass in shape. The risk reward there is worth it.

The rest of that list is either terrible fits or flat out ass.

With the hiring of Vogel, I am hopping on the "lets hope a new voice can get through to Ayton" train.

If we'd retained Monty, I think Ayton had to go, Monty and him clearly had major problems and I could see Monty basically benching him. But with Vogel, I don't really see his value going down much.

A disengaged Ayton still puts up roughly 18-10, we could still ship him off later if he doesn't get his crap together. Or, if we're feeling really clever, we feed him the ball in the first half of the year, pump up his stats and ship him off on a high note before he can disengage again.

 

[CardNots]

Yuck. That is a brutal list. Many of those guys, I wouldn't take for free.

The only one I'd do is Zion... maybe out of the Bayou he'd be forced to cut down on fried foods and get his ass in shape. The risk reward there is worth it.

The rest of that list is either terrible fits or flat out ass.

With the hiring of Vogel, I am hopping on the "lets hope a new voice can get through to Ayton" train.

If we'd retained Monty, I think Ayton had to go, Monty and him clearly had major problems and I could see Monty basically benching him. But with Vogel, I don't really see his value going down much.

A disengaged Ayton still puts up roughly 18-10, we could still ship him off later if he doesn't get his crap together. Or, if we're feeling really clever, we feed him the ball in the first half of the year, pump up his stats and ship him off on a high note before he can disengage again.

We’ve experienced the power of donuts, didn’t work out well then so I’m a hard pass…

 

[az jam]

I just hope that Vogel wasn't forced to keep Young. It should be Vogel's decision after meeting with Young and having a clear understanding that Vogel is in charge. You can't have two coaches running the team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just hope that Vogel wasn't forced to keep Young. It should be Vogel's decision after meeting with Young and having a clear understanding that Vogel is in charge. You can't have two coaches running the team.

Yeah and given that he won't turn 50 for a few weeks, Vogel isn't old enough to take a job where you'd mentor your younger replacement for a year or two.

 

[Superbone]

Yeah and given that he won't turn 50 for a few weeks, Vogel isn't old enough to take a job where you'd mentor your younger replacement for a year or two.

I can't tell if you're kidding or not. And as far as the question you're responding to, does anybody really think they didn't talk to Vogel about it before making Young not only his assistant but the highest paid assistant ever?

 

[BirdGangThing]

What was the time span between the Vogel and Young hirings?

We know they hired Vogel first but who did they tell first? Book or Young?

My guesses:

1) Hired Vogel, told him to pick his staff (like normal)

2) Young hears of the hiring, he knows he's assed out

3) Book hears of the hiring, talks to JJ and says something like "I thought we were going with Young"

4) Book is told Ishbia wanted defense and championship experience instead

5) Book doubles down and says something like "but me and KD wanted Young"

6) JJ proposes to Ishbia they keep Young around, but mentions it will be harder to do

7) I think JJ calls Young and I think Ishbia calls Vogel (or their agents)

8) I think both Young and Vogel had hesitations - so some type of meeting of the minds took place - on the fly

9) An agreement was reached, not sure what (if anything) extra they gave Vogel but they gave Young a lot of freakin money

10) They all agreed (JJ, Ishbia, Booker, KD, Vogel, Young) to get rid of Ayton asap

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can't tell if you're kidding or not. And as far as the question you're responding to, does anybody really think they didn't talk to Vogel about it before making Young not only his assistant but the highest paid assistant ever?

No, not kidding at all. I'm not sure what part of my post might have come across that way?

And I'm sure they talked to Vogel about his staff but I'm not sure what that entailed. Maybe they just asked Frank to consider Young but make up his own mind. And maybe they strongly encouraged Frank to put Young on his staff. And maybe, Ishbia pulled a Sarver type stunt and said you can have the job but we have already chosen your lead assistant.