Suns @ Hornets (right now)

[Covert Rain]

I didn't say that Lopez was a better player or anything of the sort.

However it has gotten to the point where its hard to read the board anymore because of how it has turned into who can kiss Gortat's ass the most competition. Anything that is said in a negative manner about Mr Gortat needs to be ignored as anything that he did wrong had to be the fault of somebody else.

Gortat isn't moving into the starting lineup anytime soon. Even if he did get into the starting lineup, the impact would be nullified as his improvement to the starting lineup would make the bench worse. To take my point further about how overstated this really is - the 16 games prior to the Frye injury our record was 12-4 with Lopez starting. With the way that some people on this board react you'd think we'd have a reversed record during that time.

The move isn't happening so in short LET IT GO

For the record this is bigger than Gortat starting. Maybe with Gortat starting we would be only 2 more games better. That doesn't seem like a big deal except when your team if fighting for a playoff spot....man those 2 games seem pretty damn big. In probably 3 out of the last 4 losses the Suns have had we had horrible starts to halfs which put the Suns in catchup mode for the rest of the game.

My problem has been with Gentry in general. His rotations have sucked, neither Vince Carter or Lopez should be starting IMO and Gentry has been out coached in so many close games this season I can't even count. Now the icing on the cake is his comments about Lopez. Gentry is saying he is our future and has confidence in him. That to me raises a freaking alarm. Lopez has showed squat. He sucks and everybody seems to know it but Gentry. Gortat has gone on record he wants to start. Yet Gentry won't budge. Having said that.... forget about the the Gortat factor. If Gortat wasn't on this team I would still have the same concern about Gentry starting Lopez over player X.

Gentry's judgment IMO has cost this team too many games this season.

 

[SirStefan32]

I didn't say that Lopez was a better player or anything of the sort.

However it has gotten to the point where its hard to read the board anymore because of how it has turned into who can kiss Gortat's ass the most competition. Anything that is said in a negative manner about Mr Gortat needs to be ignored as anything that he did wrong had to be the fault of somebody else.

Gortat isn't moving into the starting lineup anytime soon. Even if he did get into the starting lineup, the impact would be nullified as his improvement to the starting lineup would make the bench worse. To take my point further about how overstated this really is - the 16 games prior to the Frye injury our record was 12-4 with Lopez starting. With the way that some people on this board react you'd think we'd have a reversed record during that time.

The move isn't happening so in short LET IT GO

It's not that Gortat is the best thing since sliced bread. It's that Lopez is just awful. Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid- every time he does something good, I literally cheer. I want him to do well, I want him to become a good player, but the fact is that he is just horrible.
He should play 5 minutes at the start of the 2nd quarter, and 5 minutes at the start of the fourth until he earns some minutes.

I don't understand why you are making this about Gortat. This is about Lopez being the most useless player to wear the Suns jersey recently.
Hell, Lopez makes me miss Jake Tsakalidis and Jake Voskhul.

Lopez is a scrub, and should be treated accordingly. He should not be getting rewarded for being awful.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For the record this is bigger than Gortat starting. Maybe with Gortat starting we would be only 2 more games better. That doesn't seem like a big deal except when your team if fighting for a playoff spot....man those 2 games seem pretty damn big. In probably 3 out of the last 4 losses the Suns have had we had horrible starts to halfs which put the Suns in catchup mode for the rest of the game.

My problem has been with Gentry in general. His rotations have sucked, neither Vince Carter or Lopez should be starting IMO and Gentry has been out coached in so many close games this season I can't even count. Now the icing on the cake is his comments about Lopez. Gentry is saying he is our future and has confidence in him. That to me raises a freaking alarm. Lopez has showed squat. He sucks and everybody seems to know it but Gentry. Gortat has gone on record he wants to start. Yet Gentry won't budge. Having said that.... forget about the the Gortat factor. If Gortat wasn't on this team I would still have the same concern about Gentry starting Lopez over player X.

Gentry's judgment IMO has cost this team too many games this season.

You guys need to wake up and smell the manure. Lopez IS our future. Sad but true.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

With the Suns in contention for a better lottery pick, IMO, it's a no brainer. Keep starting Lopez. If starting Gortat gets the Suns a couple more wins it is not worth it. Next season, if Lopez does not develop further, the Suns should start Gortat. As I view it, the Suns lose by winning at this stage of the season.

 

[mjb21aztd]

meh would be cool to see nash go out to retirment by making the playoff's his last season, but we would just be a first round and out team so getting a good draft pick would be nice, as long as we don't trade it away for cash.

 

[Evil Ash]

It's not that Gortat is the best thing since sliced bread. It's that Lopez is just awful. Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid- every time he does something good, I literally cheer. I want him to do well, I want him to become a good player, but the fact is that he is just horrible.
He should play 5 minutes at the start of the 2nd quarter, and 5 minutes at the start of the fourth until he earns some minutes.

I'm not arguing that Lopez has been bad this season. I won't argue that. He shows flashes of becoming back to what he was at the end of last year and then suddenly he goes back into bad habits.

The problem for some people is that it is ALL ABOUT GORTAT. Seriously I'm expecting threads from BC about what he found in Gortat's garbage today.

The trade was a great one for us no question. Gortat is an above average center when he has someone halfway decent playing with him at PF (notice how nobody talks about how crappy he's played lately?). However we have to hear every game about how our coach is holding us back because Gortat starting would bring us to the playoffs and that Lopez is a true detriment to the team.

We were 12-4 in the last 16 games prior to the Frye injury. 12-4 with Lopez starting and keeping the rotation the way it was.

If we put Lopez on the bench, then that weakens our bench nullifying any positive that Gortat would provide as a starter. With the way Gortat has played lately that wouldn't be much of a change either.

Our problems lately have to do with A LACK OF TALENT more than the coach's decision to keep Gortat on the bench and giving him starters minutes. So it would be nice to not see EVERY SINGLE THREAD turn into how great Gortat is and how nothing is ever his fault. It just gets annoying and its pretty damned creepy.

Lopez is a scrub, and should be treated accordingly. He should not be getting rewarded for being awful.

I have no problem with him being benched but I understood why Gentry didn't make the move. That's what I've said time and time again. Lopez coming off the bench or starting doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. Its a matter of IF he sucks not when.

Lopez was a big part in our run to the WCF last year and I have no idea why he has returned back to his old bad rookie form. Hopefully the coaching staff can turn him around or if need be trade him for another BIG.

 

[jagu]

I think I could play on stilts and be better than Rolo on the boards.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think I could play on stilts and be better than Rolo on the boards.

There is a very slight chance that I may be exaggerating just a tiny bit but IMO the only player worse than Lopez, on this or any other planet, is a guy named Hakim Warrick. It's a good thing we have them both because we are notorious for turning lousy players into superstars when we face them.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

I guess what I don't get for those that continue to say this isn't a problem....is this....isn't the Bench job usually to maintain any lead your team has built? Has not the problem been that usually the Suns are down or playing catchup by the time we go to our bench?

Wouldn't better starts build a more substantial lead? Wouldn't that be default say that your bench doesn't have to do as much? Wouldn't that take more pressure off your bench? As it is today, we DEPEND on our bench to get us back into games sometimes or spark a run.

I agree with you guys 100% this would not solve our problems and we have other issues. However, that doesn't mean you don't take every opportunity to close the gaps you can right now. Again, we are not getting consistent starts to games because IMO we have a couple guys that should not be starting IMO.

Why are these guys starting? Every explanation I have seen has to do with ego's, players feelings and "he is our future". Screw that. Make a freaking basketball decision. Something Gentry doesn't seem to be able to do. I thought this team was trying to get into the playoffs? If this was really about the future....than sit all of our old guys, get the young guys in the starting lineup and let's prepare for the draft.

Seems like Gentry is trying to play both cards which is B.S. IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I guess what I don't get for those that continue to say this isn't a problem....is this....isn't the Bench job usually to maintain any lead your team has built? Has not the problem been that usually the Suns are down or playing catchup by the time we go to our bench?

Part of it has to do with the fact that we were being hit over the head with this argument long before our recent slow starts began. They were trumpeting this issue when the team was starting well and we were winning at a pretty good rate. We were much more likely to lose the game because we couldn't hold the lead late than because we didn't start well. And, it's not that we don't think it's a problem, we just don't think it's THE problem.

Why are these guys starting? Every explanation I have seen has to do with ego's, players feelings and "he is our future". Screw that. Make a freaking basketball decision. Something Gentry doesn't seem to be able to do. I thought this team was trying to get into the playoffs? If this was really about the future....than sit all of our old guys, get the young guys in the starting lineup and let's prepare for the draft.

I'm not sure why Lopez is starting, I've never really understood it. My best guess is that Gentry has decided we're stuck with the guy in our rotation and he's hoping he'll do less harm surrounded by starters than having to play with the second squad. I don't really buy that idea but it's the only one that makes any sense to me. I've wanted Gortat in the starting lineup since he arrived, I just don't think it's made much of a difference in our results. Actually, I'm not convinced we've lost or won a single game because of this aspect of our rotation.

We lose for a lot of reasons. We lose because Nash is worn out/injured and is not playing the way he was 6 weeks ago. We lose because our incredibly thin power forward position became even worse when we lost our starting PF. We lose because we do not have a consistent effort from our shooting guards. And, we lose because the combination of Gortat and Lopez makes us very weak at the center position.

I just don't see how flipping those two guys solves all of these problems. You "get that" but this board has been inundated with posts from a couple of people who apparently do not "get that". It keeps getting lost in translation but MOST of us would prefer to see Gortat in the starting lineup.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Seriously I'm expecting threads from BC about what he found in Gortat's garbage today.

The trade was a great one for us no question. Gortat is an above average center when he has someone halfway decent playing with him at PF.

Honestly now, don't those two thoughts contradict each other? Is it garbage or above average?

And you are absolutely right about Gortat, when he is our only big man on the floor. Just as when Amar'e played Center as our only big man.

It puts too much pressure on our Center when we have one Big and our opponents have two as a matter of routine.

============================================

Now please, once and for all, address the major problem with Gortat sitting on the bench to start each half, then playing 18 consecutive minutes each half.

His opposing Center is more rested. Gortat is being worn down by his own coach, who told the Press that Marcin would be starting 3rd quarters -- then that lasted all of two games.

It makes no sense to ruin Gortat, even if management is trying to tank until we are eliminated.

 

[Evil Ash]

Honestly now, don't those two thoughts contradict each other? Is it garbage or above average?

Above average for the season. Garbage effort the past few games.

Even Nash has off games every once in awhile. Why so defensive? Oh wait I know the answer.

And you are absolutely right about Gortat, when he is our only big man on the floor. Just as when Amar'e played Center as our only big man.

It puts too much pressure on our Center when we have one Big and our opponents have two as a matter of routine.

And that is a problem of personnel that some of us have brought up without having to go lovey-dovey borderline stalkerish about it. You know real basketball discussion.

Now please, once and for all, address the major problem with Gortat sitting on the bench to start each half, then playing 18 consecutive minutes each half.

His opposing Center is more rested. Gortat is being worn down by his own coach, who told the Press that Marcin would be starting 3rd quarters -- then that lasted all of two games.

Here's the problems with that

1) There are plenty of timeouts during this time so he is getting plenty of rest.

2) The last game he was better in the 4th qtr than he was in the previous 3. In those previous 3 qtrs he had 1 more rebound than I did. If he was exhausted wouldn't his rebound go down NOT UP?

It makes no sense to ruin Gortat, even if management is trying to tank until we are eliminated.

Is Gortat complaining about his mins or the time in which he plays them or is it just you? We are in a stretch run where every game counts and making a move to change the rotation would take time to adjust to. Time we don't have.

If we were say the 4th seed and the only move was a change in playoff seating thats one thing but we have ZERO margin for error now meaning no direct changes to the lineup unless we have no choice (ie Frye injury). We were 12-4 during our last 16 games with the Frye/Lopez/Hill frontcourt - a 75% winning percentage. So we were doing just fine. The only real difference with Gortat starting was in your head.

We are playing for this postseason because its going to be a while before we see NBA basketball again. The NBA owners are seeking a hard cap and things like the franchise tag. 6 out of those 30 team owners are also NHL owners who were willing to sacrifice an entire season to get what they wanted and are likely willing to do AGAIN. This labor situation is going to get real ugly folks so enjoy it while you can