Suns @ Jazz Thursday game thread 12-31-2020

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns' defense has been very strong so far this season, and Ayton deserves a lot of the credit for that. If he's able to perform at only one end of the floor, it's better to have it be that one. The team has enough other scorers. Ayton may end up more in the Marcus Camby direction, as a center whose calling card is defense and who can shoot just enough to keep defenses honest.

If that’s what it takes for us to be contenders, so be it.

 

[Finito]

Same thing is going on with Booker. People keep bringing up Ayton but Booker hasn’t been great this year at all he’s a turnover machine all of a sudden.

Booker will eventually get back on track but he’s not going to average 30 him and Ayton will average less but everybody else will average more. We actually have a real team with real opinions now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

When CP3 was asked about his opinion on the Suns having their best start in a decade he said,

“We should have beat Sac.”

That drive is fantastic. Suns have won 12 of 13 games.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can’t believe you’re arguing with the refs who watched it in slow motion in conjunction with Secaucus, NJ and upgraded it to a flagrant 1.

And the rule on a flagrant 1 foul is only "unnecessary" contact.

 

[Proximo]

I'd take that bet. Ayton will average less than 15 ppg this season.

Have to say I agree, unless Paul and him figure out the 2 man game. He sure as heck is not going to create his own shots.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Ayton should not be taking any shots if Mikal and Cam are going to have TS% anywhere near 65 (they’re both 73 now).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton should not be taking any shots if Mikal and Cam are going to have TS% anywhere near 65 (they’re both 73 now).

I will be surprised (but pleasantly so) if they both have TS% anywhere near 65. I will be surprised if bridges averages over 40% 3pt% (he’s at 50% now). I would think 40% is a healthy projected ceiling for him. Cam may just be right at his lofty numbers (at 44% 3pt% I actually buy this).

that said, at some point teams are going to start adjusting their defense to outside in. Good defensive teams will more effectively run us off the 3pt line. Ayton needs to not only be a counter, but a punishing one, so teams have to pick their poison. I don’t think he’s capable of that. I watched gobert last night who is an awkward dude and nowhere near the athlete that Ayton is, and he was shockingly 100 times more aggressive than Ayton.

 

[SirStefan32]

Just finished watching, and another solid game. Bridges and the two Cams continue to impress, as is Crowder. Booker seems to be finding his rhythm, and Ayton is continuing to frustrate me, though his defense is pretty damn good.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I will be surprised (but pleasantly so) if they both have TS% anywhere near 65. I will be surprised if bridges averages over 40% 3pt% (he’s at 50% now). I would think 40% is a healthy projected ceiling for him. Cam may just be right at his lofty numbers (at 44% 3pt% I actually buy this).

that said, at some point teams are going to start adjusting their defense to outside in. Good defensive teams will more effectively run us off the 3pt line. Ayton needs to not only be a counter, but a punishing one, so teams have to pick their poison. I don’t think he’s capable of that. I watched gobert last night who is an awkward dude and nowhere near the athlete that Ayton is, and he was shockingly 100 times more aggressive than Ayton.

I actually think the team is already doing a good job counteracting when being run off the 3 point line. Bridges and Johnson in particular (though Payne and Saric are also doing this) have at least 1 or 2 hard attacks on closeouts to get to the rim. The passing around the perimeter has been fantastic and the team is not settling just for jumpshots. If it's not open they're passing it until it is or attacking for a better look.

 

[95pro]

Have to say I agree, unless Paul and him figure out the 2 man game. He sure as heck is not going to create his own shots.

I think Ayton doesn’t want the ball. He literally rolls next to his man, guarding himself, taking away any chance of him getting the ball.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Ayton doesn’t want the ball. He literally rolls next to his man, guarding himself, taking away any chance of him getting the ball.

I think Duane Rankin may have put it best when he said Ayton's hands are aren't always reliable.

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[Cheesebeef]

I think Ayton doesn’t want the ball. He literally rolls next to his man, guarding himself, taking away any chance of him getting the ball.

his play on offense has been nothing short of bizarre. He looks like he has ZERO confidence any time he touches the ball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Ayton doesn’t want the ball. He literally rolls next to his man, guarding himself, taking away any chance of him getting the ball.

I noticed how much space gobert had on rolls and after you made this comment earlier in the thread I started watching Ayton in the roll and you’re right.

 

[Mainstreet]

I noticed how much space gobert had on rolls and after you made this comment earlier in the thread I started watching Ayton in the roll and you’re right.

Devin Booker actually got perturbed when Ayton was not looking for the shot.

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[Superbone]

I think Duane Rankin may have put it best when he said Ayton's hands are aren't always reliable.

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The problem is that he always dribbles even when he shouldn't. He needs to learn to go right back up when near the basket without a dribble and keep the ball up high.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The problem is that he always dribbles even when he shouldn't. He needs to learn to go right back up when near the basket without a dribble and keep the ball up high.

Not sure I would put that completely on a decision to dribble. The bigger issue is that he fumbled the catch and that stopped him from being able to quickly go up with it. Something he is going to have to improve if he is ever going to be a great roll man.

 

[Superbone]

Not sure I would put that completely on a decision to dribble. The bigger issue is that he fumbled the catch and that stopped him from being able to quickly go up with it. Something he is going to have to improve if he is ever going to be a great roll man.

I'd say they go hand in hand (no pun intended). If he were thinking about catching it and going straight back up with it near the basket, it would make the catch easier. Instead of catch-dribble-shoot he'd only have to think about catch-shoot.

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem is that he always dribbles even when he shouldn't. He needs to learn to go right back up when near the basket without a dribble and keep the ball up high.

Indeed, Ayton is not good when he puts the ball down and he should learn to play defense with his arms straight up when contesting a shot.

 

[Proximo]

Ayton should not be taking any shots if Mikal and Cam are going to have TS% anywhere near 65 (they’re both 73 now).

lf they are dunks or layups he should be.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

lf they are dunks or layups he should be.

I would add 3pa to the mix as well as shots near the rim in the paint. He’s fast becoming a more nimble Gobert analog. Only difference is he has range that opponents can’t play extreme drop coverages on screwing up the paint (like we did to Utah).

It’s amazing how little people seem to notice that our 3pt shooting is directly correlated to the gravity Ayton has on rim runs. For such an ineffectual player on offense he sure draws a lot of attention.

He’s top3 in DPOY this year too. Anchoring the #3 defense in the league.

Seeming more and more like an all star candidate. Jokic and Gobert are the only centers currently more deserving, with KAT’s injury issues. Big game for DA tonight, especially without Dario, to show he belongs in the same class as the Big3 out west.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

Outrageous to me that anyone can watch his effects on both ends of the floor and be SO DISAPPOINTED. I’d literally have to think long and hard about swapping him for Luka right now. Just amazing development by the staff to get him from AWFUL college (lol) defender to DPOY caliber NBA center.

 

[BC867]

I think the game is in Denver.

You're right! I wonder if we're going to be wearing our home whites on the road again.

Perhaps the "Valley" logo should be on our white home uni's. Y' know, in the Valley.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Devin Booker actually got perturbed when Ayton was not looking for the shot.

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Every now and then these plays pop up where Book seems to be short on patience with Ayton. Maybe I'm reading too much into it...

 

[BC867]

I am.sure he still ends up averaging 15-18

We're look for a playoff-strong team and a Center who can draw free throws, rather than empty stats.

 

[Mainstreet]

Every now and then these plays pop up where Book seems to be short on patience with Ayton. Maybe I'm reading too much into it...

These things happen. It's not unusual at all. Perhaps it stood out a little more when Ayton was not aggressively seeking his shot. Booker can get flustered but I like players to care. Paul does a lot of teaching but usually not during play and more so as a coach would do which is probably better.