It's going to take a lot more than one first-round draft pick to get rid of Howard Eiseley's salary.
Joe Mama
Suns @ Lakers
- Thread starter arthurracoon
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It's going to take a lot more than one first-round draft pick to get rid of Howard Eiseley's salary.
Joe Mama
schutd
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Uh oh. Here we go again. Heh.
I think a pick and cash will help. The cash can be used to pay Eisleys salary after the Bobcats cut him, and then they end up with the extra pick.
It helps that the Suns dont have anyone else that the Bobcats might actually want, too.
The Suns can only offer 3 million in cash. Since Eisley's contract is guaranteed, he will still be owed 10 million by the Bobcats even after he is waived. I agree with Joe ... it will take more than a mid 1st to get them to throw away 10 million.
What are you and Joe not understanding about the expansion draft????
The Bobcats don't owe anyone anything once they waive them.
They can waive anyone for free. What they will want to take someone is draft picks. They have said it.
This has been said repeatedly on this board and yet it is still being ignored.
The Bobcats don't owe anyone anything once they waive them.
They can waive anyone for free. What they will want to take someone is draft picks. They have said it.
This has been said repeatedly on this board and yet it is still being ignored.
elindholm
edited for content
This has been said repeatedly on this board and yet it is still being ignored.
It has since been retracted. I haven't been following that carefully, but I believe the current understanding is that the Bobcats would still have to pay the player, he just wouldn't count against their salary cap (or for possible luxury tax).
It has since been retracted. I haven't been following that carefully, but I believe the current understanding is that the Bobcats would still have to pay the player, he just wouldn't count against their salary cap (or for possible luxury tax).
Argh, this is correct. And they can only send $3 million to the Bobcats.
However, I think they would still do this if the pick the Suns send is in the Lottery.
Just lose Knicks dammit!
What?? Of course they owe the money. The contracts are guaranteed. Unless you saw something in the expansion rules that states that the NBA will pay off the remaining salary, I don't understand the confusion. Please understand ... just because the money comes off their salary cap does not mean they don't owe the money. They could technically draft 12 players with salaries totaling 40 million, waive all of them, and have a cap of 0. But they still owe the players the money. Who exactly do you think will pay the players their guaranteed contracts if its not the Bobcats? David Stern?
In that scenario talked about, Eisley's owed 13 million. If the Suns offer a draft pick and 3 million, they could take it, waive Eisley, and not have his salary effect their cap. But he would still be owed 10 million. Since the Bobcats drafted him, they owe him the money. So the question remains, is a mid first round pick enough to take on 10 million dollars. I don't think so.
George O'Brien
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Someone on another board claimed that the original team would owe the money if the player was waived, but it would not count for the cap.
For some reason the columnists that write about this seem to be uninterested in the waivers. It is noted that the Bobcats could take 29 players, which means that waivers would be inevitable.
Also, I have read nothing about secondary deals that would make the first one more attractive. For example, let's say that the Suns offered a pick and $3 mil to take Eisley. Then they offered $10 million for a minimum contract guy the Bobcats have that would otherwise be cut. Are there rules that would preclude that?
BTW,for the Suns this would have the same financial impact as a straight buyout of Eilsey's contract but would clear some cap space.
Since there are at least 25 teams with crappy contracts they would like to unload, I would think there would be great support for a one time house cleaning.
It will be interesting to see the offers they get from other teams.
Their salary cap is only going to be $30 million.
They have said repeatedly they want draft picks.
Their salary cap is only going to be $30 million.
They have said repeatedly they want draft picks.
I think the Kobe situation will hold the key to what the Suns offer in expansion. I can't speak for Suns management, but he is the only free agent out there I would offer a max contract. There isn't anyone else I would offer any more than the MLE. So, if Kobe is still under trial this summer, he might not opt out of his deal. Or, if he does, I doubt the Suns would go after him with his legal uncertanties. If that's the case, then I can't see the Suns giving away a draft pick just to clear more cap room ... especially when their isn't anyone worth getting with the extra room.
If Kobe doesn't opt out, I could see them standing pat, wait for Jahidi's contract to expire, and go after him or T-Mac the following year.
If Kobe doesn't opt out, I could see them standing pat, wait for Jahidi's contract to expire, and go after him or T-Mac the following year.
George O'Brien
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That is the direction I predict the Suns will take. I could see them picking up a few role players with short term contracts, but the Kobe thing looks too chancy to work.
Part of the problem is the sequence of events. Unless I'm mistaken (hey it happens
) it will be like this:Bobcats Expansion Draft
Trading in open
NBA draft
Free agents can begin negotiating
Free agency signings
The Suns would not be allowed to find out what money it would take to even bid on Kobe until after the draft. Since there is little point in clearing another $6 million by giving up a pick if the Suns are not going to use the cap space; it would mean gambling without any guidence.
Using a pick to move Eisley makes more sense than in moving White, because it would clear space in 2005. A lot depends on how valuabel the second pick is.
Waiting until 2005 may be the better choice. Eisley would only have one year left on his contract. In that scenerio, the Suns would trade for the guy they want and use Eisley as ballast. The other team would hold on to Eisley for a year and then clear him from cap. A team with a $12 million guy could clear $6 million immediately and another $6 million one year later.
If the Suns were one guy away from making a run for the championship, it might make sense. Otherwise, they should wait and sign their younger players.
I was under the impression that Charlotte was responsible for paying the salaries of anybody they cut. If that's correct I would think it will take A LOT to get them to pay $10 million. If they are not responsible for the $10 million it would not be less costly, but it would surely take more than a mid first round draft pick. Also, there has got to be some limit on how many of these bad contracts Charlotte can take.
I know we all love the draft. It gives us something to talk about at the beginning of December, but would we be disappointed with the following scenario?
Lampe looks good as a center/backup power forward.
JJ continues to look great and is signed to a nice extension ($7 million).
Barbosa continues to improve. Perhaps he isn't the ideal point guard, but the team looks good with him in the lineup. As a side note, I am inclined to believe that Barbosa is not going to be averaging 7 + assists per game, but I don't think the team necessarily needs that. I would rather have a point guard that can knockdown open shots, create when he needs to , and played great defense. I think that's what Barbosa could do.
The Suns convince Milos Vujanic to come over and play next year for a fee years averaging $2-3 million per season. Either he or Barbosa play the Bobby Jackson roll off the bench for 25 minutes per game or so.
Re-sign Donnell Harvey to a small, reasonable contract.
Sign a veteran big man to a short, small contract. I know I'm going to get skinned alive for this, but Greg Ostertag might want to get away from Utah.
I'm running out of ideas here, but the general idea is that with so many young guys already on the roster perhaps the Suns don't need the draft picks.
Barbosa/ Vujanic
JJ/ Vujanic/Casey Jacobsen
Shawn Marion/Cabarkapa/Harvey
Amare Stoudemire/Lampe/Cabarkapa/Harvey
free-agent/Little Jake/Lampe
Thoughts? The Suns would maintain at least a little bit of flexibility. They would still have young players, some future draft picks, and a responsible team salary.
Joe Mama
I know we all love the draft. It gives us something to talk about at the beginning of December, but would we be disappointed with the following scenario?
Lampe looks good as a center/backup power forward.
JJ continues to look great and is signed to a nice extension ($7 million).
Barbosa continues to improve. Perhaps he isn't the ideal point guard, but the team looks good with him in the lineup. As a side note, I am inclined to believe that Barbosa is not going to be averaging 7 + assists per game, but I don't think the team necessarily needs that. I would rather have a point guard that can knockdown open shots, create when he needs to , and played great defense. I think that's what Barbosa could do.
The Suns convince Milos Vujanic to come over and play next year for a fee years averaging $2-3 million per season. Either he or Barbosa play the Bobby Jackson roll off the bench for 25 minutes per game or so.
Re-sign Donnell Harvey to a small, reasonable contract.
Sign a veteran big man to a short, small contract. I know I'm going to get skinned alive for this, but Greg Ostertag might want to get away from Utah.
I'm running out of ideas here, but the general idea is that with so many young guys already on the roster perhaps the Suns don't need the draft picks.
Barbosa/ Vujanic
JJ/ Vujanic/Casey Jacobsen
Shawn Marion/Cabarkapa/Harvey
Amare Stoudemire/Lampe/Cabarkapa/Harvey
free-agent/Little Jake/Lampe
Thoughts? The Suns would maintain at least a little bit of flexibility. They would still have young players, some future draft picks, and a responsible team salary.
Joe Mama
George O'Brien
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Using the Draft Picks
I mostly agree. I have repeatedly said I would like to bundle two picks and move up to get one of the top two picks. Otherwise, I would not be adverse to trading one for an unprotected 2005 pick. The Suns do not need to tie up cap space on yet another project. Next year the Suns are going to be terribly young (barring rades) the number of years of experience will be:
Vujanic - rookie
Carbakapa, Barbosa, and Lampe - 1
Stoudemire and Jackobsen - 2
Johnson and Harvey - 3
Voskuhl - 4
Marion - 5
White - 6
Eisely - 9
This means the team will have an average of 2.5 years of experience next season. Take away Eisley and it drops to 1.9.
Addiing two more rookies will drop the average even further. The Suns do not need quantity, they need quality.
I have pushed for a veteran backup guard like Brent Barry to provide some experience to what will be a terribly young team. Drafting two guys who will not contribute right away will make that more difficult.
I mostly agree. I have repeatedly said I would like to bundle two picks and move up to get one of the top two picks. Otherwise, I would not be adverse to trading one for an unprotected 2005 pick. The Suns do not need to tie up cap space on yet another project. Next year the Suns are going to be terribly young (barring rades) the number of years of experience will be:
Vujanic - rookie
Carbakapa, Barbosa, and Lampe - 1
Stoudemire and Jackobsen - 2
Johnson and Harvey - 3
Voskuhl - 4
Marion - 5
White - 6
Eisely - 9
This means the team will have an average of 2.5 years of experience next season. Take away Eisley and it drops to 1.9.
Addiing two more rookies will drop the average even further. The Suns do not need quantity, they need quality.
I have pushed for a veteran backup guard like Brent Barry to provide some experience to what will be a terribly young team. Drafting two guys who will not contribute right away will make that more difficult.
I'm a big Brent Barry fan. I thought he would have been a great fit with Marbury. He's going to get at least 25 minutes per night though. If JJ plays 40 minutes and Barbosa plays 30-35 minutes that leaves only 21-26 minutes per game for Brent Barry AND Vujanic. I don't think Vujanic will come over here if the Suns sign a free-agent guard who expects to get some minutes.
Of course I don't think Brent Barry would sign here anyways.
Joe Mama
Of course I don't think Brent Barry would sign here anyways.
Joe Mama
thegrahamcrackr
Registered User
I am pretty satisfied with your outlook Joe. However, I don't think JJ will get 7mil. I mean magette only gets 5.5 a year, and even if Joe keeps up this play the rest of the season, I cannot see him topping that.
About trying to get the Bobcats to take Eisley. I think that it would be foolish not to at least try. The amount of cap space he would free up in 2005 if we sit this year would be huge. Howard and Jahadi make a combined 12 million or so. With our current numbers, if we did nothing in FA this year, we could have our salary around 25 million for the summer of 2005. That is huge.
About trying to get the Bobcats to take Eisley. I think that it would be foolish not to at least try. The amount of cap space he would free up in 2005 if we sit this year would be huge. Howard and Jahadi make a combined 12 million or so. With our current numbers, if we did nothing in FA this year, we could have our salary around 25 million for the summer of 2005. That is huge.
I was too. I don't think th CBA would allow a player too get cut out of a paycheck this way.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe Mama
.
I know we all love the draft. It gives us something to talk about at the beginning of December, but would we be disappointed with the following scenario?
Lampe looks good as a center/backup power forward.
JJ continues to look great and is signed to a nice extension ($7 million).
Barbosa continues to improve. Perhaps he isn't the ideal point guard, but the team looks good with him in the lineup. As a side note, I am inclined to believe that Barbosa is not going to be averaging 7 + assists per game, but I don't think the team necessarily needs that. I would rather have a point guard that can knockdown open shots, create when he needs to , and played great defense. I think that's what Barbosa could do.
The Suns convince Milos Vujanic to come over and play next year for a fee years averaging $2-3 million per season. Either he or Barbosa play the Bobby Jackson roll off the bench for 25 minutes per game or so.
Re-sign Donnell Harvey to a small, reasonable contract.
Sign a veteran big man to a short, small contract. I know I'm going to get skinned alive for this, but Greg Ostertag might want to get away from Utah.
I'm running out of ideas here, but the general idea is that with so many young guys already on the roster perhaps the Suns don't need the draft picks.
Barbosa/ Vujanic
JJ/ Vujanic/Casey Jacobsen
Shawn Marion/Cabarkapa/Harvey
Amare Stoudemire/Lampe/Cabarkapa/Harvey
free-agent/Little Jake/Lampe
Thoughts? The Suns would maintain at least a little bit of flexibility. They would still have young players, some future draft picks, and a responsible team salary.
Joe Mama [/QUOTE]
Sounds good to me but I really don't think I want Ostertag. I'd like to see what Lampe can do and if he's still growing, who needs Ostertag ?
Joe, I thingk the Suns should hire you & George as consultants.... on the other hand, all JC/BC need to do is read this board and they can have all this advice for FREE. Trouble is, they may like the ideas posted that I don't like.
George O'Brien
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Yeh, and I could use the money.
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