Suns May Not Sign Another Big

[Irish]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/122066

The Suns showed only mild interest in bringing Skinner back. General manager Steve Kerr said last week the team might not sign another backup big man after drafting Robin Lopez and signing free agent Matt Barnes.

I'm not sure if this is just a posture, but with Shaq, Amare, Robin, Boris and now Matt; they have a bunch of guys who can play inside. The rumor of a few weeks ago was that they wanted another power guy in case Shaq gets injured, but they may have a different strategy now.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

As long as they keep Boris, I think that they are fine.

 

[HooverDam]

Good lord, here comes the typical front office spin. "Matt Barnes is an inside guy" is about as rich as "Amare is our #1 pick" or "Sean Marks is going to surprise a lot of people". If they keep Boris they are 2 deep at PF and C, but they really should've shown some interest in bringing back Skinner because right now they have a starting Center we'd be lucky to get 50 games out of and an unproven rookie backup who's never been a great rebounder. They really need a 5th true big to have a front court rotation that I'd be comfortable with.

 

[The Commish]

Backup PG is more important in my opinion.

 

[95pro]

so if we're not getting a big, then are we getting more shooters? more pf?

and yes, our pg need still nees to be filled.

i have a gut feeling based off of nothing, gut alone, that we'll get jaywill.

 

[Irish]

I think Jayson Williams would be a good pickup, but it sounds like he's out of our price range.

http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2008/07/a-heatrelated-t.html

If you're following the free agency saga of point guard Jason Williams, here's an update.

Amid an ESPN report that J-Will is in serious discussions with Israeli-league team Tel Aviv, just received confirmation that there is indeed interest, but that a deal is not imminent.

In fact, we've been told by two sources that J-Will essentially remains in a holding pattern with a couple of potential suitors. A few days ago, we were told not to completely rule out a possible return to the Heat at a deeply, deeply, deeply discounted rate from the $8.9 million he earned last season.

If Heat president Pat Riley is even interested in a reunion (count me among those who figured J-Will's days in Miami were numbered after the "high-paid prostitutes" comment he made on Christmas Day in Cleveland), it would most likely happen in the range of $1.3 to $2 million.
But word out of Israel from at least one source familiar with Tel Aviv's negotiations is that Williams is seeking a deal with an annual salary of at least $3 million. The Israeli teams is thinking closer to $1.5, which is similar to any deal any NBA suitor might extend, including the Heat.

 

[scXfreakX]

Well no doubt that we need a backup PG. That more than anything. Of course another big guy would be nice, but we're very short at the PG position.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Nash/Barbs/DJ
Bell/Barbs/Tucker/DJ
Hill/Barnes/Bell/Tucker
Amare/Diaw/Barnes
Shaq/Amare/Diaw

While I agree we need a PG before a backup big. We definitely need shaq insurance in case he goes down.

 

[AceP]

Guys, of course we want the team to be as deep as possible. But there r only 5 position a total of 240 minutes to share. If a team has 10 men in regular rotation, it's considered very deep. A championship team usually plays 8-9 guys. Even counting the end of bench guys who only get minutes when some1 got injuried, 12 is enough.

With Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Barnes, Hill, Diaw, Amare, Shaq, we have already got 8 proven veterans, all prime player commanding major minutes.

Lopez will definitely have a firm rotation role. Because we drafted him at #15, because he has the talent and upside, and because we need a reliable center while Shaq retiring in 2 years. We've got to give him enough playing time to develop.

Tucker has shown a lot of promise, his performance in summer league should have earned him some meaningful playing time this season. Don't forget, Bell is getting older, already 32 now. Tucker may be our SG for future, for the best of the Suns, he'd better be.

It is also most obvious and most definite we'll add a real PG soon, who got to be a proven veteran who can give Nash more minutes and even some games to rest.

We got DJ Strawberry there to be a last option at 1/2.

Do the math, we've already got 12 players. Adding another big man is probably the last thing we need to worry about.

Right now, finding the backup PG is the first priority.

 

[BC867]

I'm not sure if this is just a posture, but with Shaq, Amare, Robin, Boris and now Matt; they have a bunch of guys who can play inside.

Ah, the ghost of Mike D'Antoni lives on in Phoenix.

Shaq and Robin as our only true Centers is not going to get us through the playoffs.

So Amare and Boris will see alot of time at Center . . . again.

Amare will be tentative on defense and get into foul trouble. Boris will be inconsistent.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A team hoping to do more than 50-and-fade needs 3 true Centers and 3 true Point Guards on its roster. And get playing time during the regular season.

Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. After 40 seasons.

I wonder if Terry Porter knew this was going to happen. I'm pissed.

 

[AceP]

Ah, the ghost of Mike D'Antoni lives on in Phoenix.

Shaq and Robin as our only true Centers is not going to get us through the playoffs.

So Amare and Boris will see alot of time at Center . . . again.

Amare will be tentative on defense and get into foul trouble. Boris will be inconsistent.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A team hoping to do more than 50-and-fade needs 3 true Centers and 3 true Point Guards on its roster. And get playing time during the regular season.

Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. After 40 seasons.

I wonder if Terry Porter knew this was going to happen. I'm pissed.

How comes a team need 3 centers??? That sounds crazy. If Shaq can't do well for 30 minutes in every game in playoff, we should trade him right now.

The Spurs beat us with actually 3 true big man, TD, Oberto, KT. Horry was barely a factor. The 2006 championship Heat also only have 3 big man, Shaq, Zo, Haslem, Walker was the starting SF for most of games.

I think Shaq, Amare, Diaw is good enough for playoff, as long as Porter get Diaw straight to play post game well.

 

[Irish]

I don't know if Barnes is able to play the PF like Marion. Marion was a great rebounder and I'm not clear that Barnes is anything close to that class. But otherwise, Barnes is the same size with similar athleticism to Marion.

I honestly don't know if Barnes can give the Suns what Marion brought, but it sounds like they think he can come close

 

[dodie53]

Barnes will play PF?
small ball again?

 

[Irish]

Barnes will play PF?
small ball again?

I think small ball is great in the matchups. We are talking about a small beall team roughly the SIZE of the 2004-05 team that won 62 games. Besides no depth, the big problem with that team was that small ball was their ONLY option.

When it comes to the playoffs, I don't see them using the small ball option very much. The refs permit a lot of slow down tactics (grabbing, etc) that negates what small ball can do in the regular season. But with Shaq, the Suns have a guy who does well in the slow down game.

BTW, I cannot figure out those people who hate small ball and also hate the Marion for Shaq deal. It feels like they believe there was some really great deal available that did not require Marion signing a low priced extension.

 

[BC867]

I think Shaq, Amare, Diaw is good enough for playoff...

Like it was in this year's elimination?

I don't think so.

 

[AceP]

Like it was in this year's elimination?

I don't think so.

If we have to talk into this? I don't think Shaq + Amare was the main reason we lost to the Spurs.

#1. A huge void at SF position, due to Hill's injury.

Diaw's perimeter game sux, he worked out his stats mainly down low, and he did pretty well there.

We were forced to play Bell at SF, where he is undersized, and counting on Barbosa and Giricek to fill in.

#2. An extremely bad performance by LB. In 28.6mpg, 10.4ppg is way below his season average, 34.5 FG% and 22.2 3P%, this is plain horrible.

Giricek was also a very negative factor, 16mpg with a mere 3.4ppg, 33.3 FG% and 25.0 3P%.

#3. D'antoni was mentally unprepared and incapable of dealing with Hack-A-Shaq trick. We all know, mathematically, Hack-A-Shaq gives us a sure 1 point per possession, all we need to do is slow down play hard-nosed half court defence, ensure oppoent FG% below 50. Then we will definitely win.

D'antoni let Popovich's ugly trick got into his mind, spoiled his original game plan, and wasn't able to make courtside adjustment to fight back properly.


Back to big man issure, we have to count on both of Shaq and Amare to be healthy for a playoff run. I would say Robin Lopez + any service PF with a bargain price should be good enough to back them up. If our new coach Porter consider Diaw a very nice post player to keep, it's fine. But that's definitely more than GOOD ENOUGH.

And don't forget Shaq + Amare + Diaw + Lopez is over 45M on payroll! Our budget is limited, and we r still weak and thin in other position!


It drives me crazy while some people keep saying we can't trade Diaw because he's the only dependable backup big man in roster, while asking for an extra one, simply ignoring the problem on financial side. It just doesn't work.

The best solution is probably trade Diaw's 9M for 2 cheaper players, a backup PG we urgently need, and a real PF. After then, we may talk about the 5th big man.

 

[passenger]

Nash/Barbs/DJ
Bell/Barbs/Tucker/DJ
Hill/Barnes/Bell/Tucker
Amare/Diaw/Barnes
Shaq/Amare/Diaw

While I agree we need a PG before a backup big. We definitely need shaq insurance in case he goes down.

Where is Robin Lopez here??

 

[Irish]

I doubt the Suns will see the back court version of "Hack a Shaq" much. It's too easy to spot. If Shaq takes the ball out and somebody hangs back, then he just doest come in bounds leaving four on four and an unballanced defense for the opponent.

Of course if Shaq can get his free throw shooting to a respectable level, then it won't be an issue at all.

As for the roster, IMHO it is better to looke at the team the way the coaches do.

Starters:

Shaq
Amare
Hill
Bell
Nash

Rotation

Lopez (center and PF)
Barnes (SF and spot work at PF and SG)
Barbosa (SG and spot at PG)
Unknown (PG)

Deep Bench and spot

Diaw
Tucker
Strwaberry

Diaw has to really up his production to get back into the rotation. Due to his skills et, there are spots and matchups where he may play a lot in certain games. In any case, the Suns are unlikely to remain totally healthy for the entire season, so Boris is going to get close to 1000 minutes this year.

 

[Chaplin]

I doubt the Suns will see the back court version of "Hack a Shaq" much. It's too easy to spot. If Shaq takes the ball out and somebody hangs back, then he just doest come in bounds leaving four on four and an unballanced defense for the opponent.

Of course if Shaq can get his free throw shooting to a respectable level, then it won't be an issue at all.

As for the roster, IMHO it is better to looke at the team the way the coaches do.

Starters:

Shaq
Amare
Hill
Bell
Nash

Rotation

Lopez (center and PF)
Barnes (SF and spot work at PF and SG)
Barbosa (SG and spot at PG)
Unknown (PG)

Deep Bench and spot

Diaw
Tucker
Strwaberry

Diaw has to really up his production to get back into the rotation. Due to his skills et, there are spots and matchups where he may play a lot in certain games. In any case, the Suns are unlikely to remain totally healthy for the entire season, so Boris is going to get close to 1000 minutes this year.

George, you're generally a really level-headed guy, but if you think Diaw is deep bench right now, you're crazy.

Diaw will 100% be the first guy off the bench. Absolutely, positively, no question about it. Barbosa will come on around the same time, along with Barnes, but Diaw will be the #1 guy off the bench. I can't believe you have Robin Lopez ahead of him in the rotation. Oh, and Barnes. And a backup PG we don't even have yet.

 

[Irish]

I hope Diaw EARNS the rotation slot, but I'm not convinced his defense and especially his rebounding is going to be better than Lopez. I'm also convinced they made some promises to Barnes in terms of playing time to get him to come at such a cheap price.

Ironically, the strongest case for Diaw playing is if they are shopping him. But if they are, it would mean they should be looking at other bigs to fill his role.

Will Lopez become an instant rotation guy? Apparently observers were impressed with his performance on the Select Team such as the first game where hie blocked at couple of shots by Chris Paul.

I'd be very reluctant to trade Diaw with the roster as it is. Maybe Barnes does not return to his 2006-07 level. Maybe Lope is slower developing than the team thinks. Maybe Hill needs a lot more time off than in the past. Maybe Shaq won't be able to take the pace and needs to play a lot fewer minutes.

D'Antoni is gone. The rotation will not be written in stone.

 

[BC867]

But that's definitely more than GOOD ENOUGH.

You joined the board a half a year ago, AceP. Welcome aboard.

I've been a Suns fan since 1970. I'm tired of 'good enough' or 'more than good enough' as a Suns goal. Perhaps in 37 1/2 years, you'll feel the same way.

The best solution is probably trade Diaw's 9M for 2 cheaper players, a backup PG we urgently need, and a real PF. After then, we may talk about the 5th big man.

Bingo, AceP. Diaw is too light at a Power Position, just as Marion was. He's blocking our path to playoff strength.

Add a legitimate backup Point Guard and a legitimate backup Center/Power Forward, and I'll be happy.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Where is Robin Lopez here??

I thought that lineup looked a little short...

 

[Irish]

If Diaw could return to his 2005-06 form, he'd play a lot. In 2006-07 he came to camp out of condition; but last year he just didn't step it up like I'd hoped until the playoffs.

2005-06 13.3 ppg, 52.6% shooting, 6.9 rpg, and 6.2 apg in 35.5 minutes
Playoffs 18.7 ppg, 52.6% shooting 42.9% for three (3 of 7), 6.7 rpg, 5.2 apg in 39.8 minutes

2007-08 8.8 ppg, 47.7% shooting, 4.6 rpg and 3.9 apg in 28.1 minutes
Playoffs 14.4 ppg, 54.7% shooting, 5.6 rpg and 4.6 apg in 35.6 minutes

Those are reasonable stats. So why is he is he so hated? Besides his salary, he comes across as being laid back and soft. His tendency to get under the basket and pass rather than dunk has been a real problem. Also, he is a below averaged rebounder for an inside guy.

Regular 2005-06 0.194 rebounds per minute
playoffs 2005-06 0.168 rebounds per minute

Regular 2007-08 0.163 rebounds per minute
Playoffs 2007-08 0167 per minute

Oddly enough, Boris rebounded the best in the two games of the Spurs series he played at SF:

Game 1 - 4 rebounds
Game 2 - 2 rebounds
Game 3 - 4 rebounds
Game 4 - 10 rebounds
Game 5 - 8 rebounds

IMHO Boris is best suited for SF, but he is likely to play mostly inside until Hill retires.

 

[SirStefan32]

Oddly enough, Boris rebounded the best in the two games of the Spurs series he played at SF:

Game 1 - 4 rebounds
Game 2 - 2 rebounds
Game 3 - 4 rebounds
Game 4 - 10 rebounds
Game 5 - 8 rebounds

IMHO Boris is best suited for SF, but he is likely to play mostly inside until Hill retires.

I don't think that's odd at all. Boris is a SF. When he is playing a SF, he is not going up against players who are 2-4 inches taller and 25-50 lb heavier. It makes perfect sense.
I agree with you that he is best suited to play SF. Problem Suns have is that there are 2 other small forwards on the team, and a shortage of big men.

 

[SirStefan32]

Those are reasonable stats. So why is he is he so hated?

I think he is really hated because we all know how good he can really be. He could easily score 15-20 points, grab 6-8 boards and have 5-10 assists.
I am one of the biggest Diaw fans, and there are times when I just want to scream in frustration because Diaw is so timid.

He has the talent to be the best player on this team. He has it all- physical ability, high basketball IQ, he is one of the most underrated defenders in the league. He has everything he needs to be an all-star, but he just doesn't seem interested in that.