Suns Nets Game Thread

[Covert Rain]

Let's see the argument was Marion's so valuable because of how he plays the scorers of the league and then the scorers of the league rip him a new one. How is that not germaine to the statement you just made?

And you're right, one game doesn't define a career - it's Marion continually getting worked by those guys (much like everyone else) which DOES define his career. There's a reason he's never even SNIFFED an All 1st or 2nd Defensive Team.

Your talking out of your backside. Show me the stats to prove that Marion get's worked everytime he plays someone who can score? Not to mention AGAIN the Suns play a rotating defense and lots of those points came off the switch. If your going to blame good scorers for putting up big points then blame the Suns defensive scheme.

 

[Covert Rain]

you act like I claim to be anything but? I don't. You seem to think yourself different than I and you're not... well, except that you're wrong most of the time, whereas I'm not.

Talk about delusional.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Calling names. When I said you were a "negative ninny," come on, thats an expression my grandma uses. I just don't like hearing negative crap about the team in the heat of the moment, its no fun for me. I have so many friends like that, it just not fun for me.

And no I haven't "learned that," I'm sorry but I don't really pay attention to your posts more than any others on most days, so I haven't really noticed your argumentative nature.

Whatever, I'm not going to fight w/ someone on the internet....I have better things to do. Being a little less prickly would probably be appreciated by everyone, thats all.

I didn't realize we were in a fight. Try not to take everything I say so seriously - most of it is just for yucks and in the heat of the moment, game wise, anyway. Everyone's got their own style - if everyone was the same, this place would be a snooooooooooze fest. no one wants that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Talk about delusional.

oh, I didn't realize we were talking about your understanding of the salary cap again.

 

[HooverDam]

About the Suns bench, I'm still holding out hope for Banks and JR, though it is wearing thin. Its a waiting game now, maybe the Suns can make a good move at the trade deadline, package some picks w/ JR perhaps to get someone (preferably a bigger guy). Tonight w/ Nash on the bench and Banks in the game, the Suns didn't totally fall apart...I think they lost what, a 4 point lead? Not too bad, perhaps we should be encouraged by that.

 

[Covert Rain]

oh, I didn't realize we were talking about your understanding of the salary cap again.

Or your comprehension about anything about a players skill or value?!?

 

[Cheesebeef]

If your going to blame good scorers for putting up big points then blame the Suns defensive scheme.

Ah, see, here's where your missing the point - I don't blame scorers for putting up big points, I blame Shawn Marion for not being able to guard them! And if we have a rotating defense, then what value does Shawn really have if he's rotating off those big time scorers? Seems to me a bit of a contradiction... unless you're saying that the only times they score is when Marion switches off, which is just as ludicrous as... well... your understanding of the salary cap and how rookies can KILL it for you like Penny Hardaway.

 

[Griffin]

With regards to TNT not broadcasting the game, keep in mind that the Suns are maxed out as far as the number of games that can be nationally televised, as per league rules. Can't remember the exact number, but including NBATV, that's over 30 games. If they were to schedule tonight's game for broadcast, some other Suns game would have to be dropped. Now going into the season, tonight's matchup doesn't seem like a must-see. Of course given what a game it was, I'd be upset too if I missed it, but what can you do. Perhaps you can try to find a torrent in a few days. I think Google used to sell individual games too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Or your comprehension about anything about a players skill or value?!?

right - I forgot that in the Garnett thread that it was you against... well... everyone with a brain... as it was in the salary cap thread.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ah, see, here's where your missing the point - I don't blame scorers for putting up big points, I blame Shawn Marion for not being able to guard them! And if we have a rotating defense, then what value does Shawn really have if he's rotating off those big time scorers? Seems to me a bit of a contradiction... unless you're saying that the only times they score is when Marion switches off, which is just as ludicrous as... well... your understanding of the salary cap and how rookies can KILL it for you like Penny Hardaway.

I was going to say that the stupidest thing I have seen you write but there are several examples to chose from. There have been lost of good defenders that get burned by good scorers. It happens every night in the NBA.

Do you even watch the games? The Suns rotate because they like to double (too much in my opinion). So if you use your logic then what value does anybody on the team have?

Again, you show how much of a moron you are. Nobody compared Hardway or called him a rookie salary problem.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Your talking out of your backside. Show me the stats to prove that Marion get's worked everytime he plays someone who can score? Not to mention AGAIN the Suns play a rotating defense and lots of those points came off the switch. If your going to blame good scorers for putting up big points then blame the Suns defensive scheme.

If you list off the players you want me to look at from this season I can tell you the exact stats for them going against Marion this season. (It would be when Marion is the on ball defender)

 

[Covert Rain]

right - I forgot that in the Garnett thread that it was you against... well... everyone with a brain... as it was in the salary cap thread.

Well then you must have been on my side because that doesn't describe you. Not to mention that I never said I was against getting KG. Only that he wasn't worth the lop sided trade that was suggested.

Oh sorry, I forgot you have a comprehension problem.

 

[Covert Rain]

If you list off the players you want me to look at from this season I can tell you the exact stats for them going against Marion this season. (It would be when Marion is the on ball defender)

Would love to see it. Then I would like to see where it compares to other players in the NBA against those same players.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Would love to see it. Then I would like to see where it compares to other players in the NBA.

Well you didn't list the players you want me to look at. And I am not going to do a full report because I just don't have time, but I will compare him to 3 other players for you (of your choice)

The sample sizes will be small because a guy doesn't guard the shot on ball THAT many times in a game. Try to pick players from the Western conference so hopefully everyone has played each other at least once.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well you didn't list the players you want me to look at. And I am not going to do a full report because I just don't have time, but I will compare him to 3 other players for you (of your choice)

The sample sizes will be small because a guy doesn't guard the shot on ball THAT many times in a game. Try to pick players from the Western conference so hopefully everyone has played each other at least once.

I am not the one calling Marion a terrible defender. The funny thing is that I often don't agree with the coach putting Marion on small guards anyway. I think that's a huge coaching mistake. If Bell is suppose to be this good defender, he doesn't show confidence in him that much. So making Marion guard guys out of position isn't a good measure of how a guy can play defense at his position.

The more important stat would be how Marion stacks up when he is not guarding guys out of position versus defending out of position. I bet the majority of good defenders in the NBA would look silly from time to time if they covered out of position as much as Marion does. That's to me is on the coach.

 

[jbeecham]

What a rollercoaster game! Amazing the Suns were able to pull it out. Nash is the man and it was great to see Boris step up offensively after Amare fouled out. Hopefully Raja's hand is ok (had ice on it in the OT's) after he injured it trying to steal a rebound from Mikki Moore.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am not the one calling Marion a terrible defender.

who is? Just because I don't think Marion's a GOOD defender, doesn't automatically mean I think he's TERRIBLE. He's an average defensive player - plain and simple - good on help defense with steals and relatively weak in one on one defense.

Things aren't so black and white as you make them seem - as you infer above. Someone doesn't have to be "terrible" just because they're not good.

and why are you not just listing names so Andy can do a breakdown? I'd be interested to see what his findings are.

 

[Covert Rain]

who is? Just because I don't think Marion's a GOOD defender, doesn't automatically mean I think he's TERRIBLE. He's an average defensive player - plain and simple - good on help defense with steals and relatively weak in one on one defense.

Things aren't so black and white as you make them seem - as you infer above. Someone doesn't have to be "terrible" just because they're not good.

and why are you not just listing names so Andy can do a breakdown? I'd be interested to see what his findings are.

Because I'm not the one claiming hes not a good defender. Plus a more accurate measure would be how good a defender he is when defending most SF in this league.

Your right things are not black and white. Especially, when your coach doesn't have a good defensive scheme that puts players in the best position to defend. I just don't think it's possible with the offensive scheme this team runs.

 

[Covert Rain]

What a rollercoaster game! Amazing the Suns were able to pull it out. Nash is the man and it was great to see Boris step up offensively after Amare fouled out. Hopefully Raja's hand is ok (had ice on it in the OT's) after he injured it trying to steal a rebound from Mikki Moore.

I agree. Do you think that Boris got agressive because he felt like he didn't have to defer to Amare? That's pretty scary if so because we need Boris to be like that all the time.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Because I'm not the one claiming hes not a good defender. Plus a more accurate measure would be how good a defender he is when defending most SF in this league.

SFs fit into the "name any player" criteria

Also, it would be good to note that at 6-7 Marion is actually a little undersized against a lot of 3s. For example Kobe is 6-6.

 

[krispydude]

barkley bashing the suns again. shocking.

 

[Covert Rain]

SFs fit into the "name any player" criteria

Also, it would be good to note that at 6-7 Marion is actually a little undersized against a lot of 3s. For example Kobe is 6-6.

OK. The average height of a SF in the NBA is between 6'5"/1.96 m to 6'11"/2.11. I would say that would mean Marion isn't undersized. He is just about in the middle I would say.

barkley bashing the suns again. shocking.

What's new? CB always says how much he loves the Suns but then in the same sentence always bashes the Suns. I agree...big surprise.

 

[elindholm]

Serious question

Toward the end of the second overtime, when Diaw inbounded and Barbosa barely saved it, why was that not a backcourt violation? The Suns had already taken the ball into the frontcourt and then were inbounding again, from the frontcourt, after a foul.

I thought I knew the rule, but apparently I don't.

 

[fordronken]

Toward the end of the second overtime, when Diaw inbounded and Barbosa barely saved it, why was that not a backcourt violation? The Suns had already taken the ball into the frontcourt and then were inbounding again, from the frontcourt, after a foul.

I thought I knew the rule, but apparently I don't.

Yeah. I thought that it was only allowed after a time out. It could be that it's any posession after the shot clock is changed.

 

[Covert Rain]

Toward the end of the second overtime, when Diaw inbounded and Barbosa barely saved it, why was that not a backcourt violation? The Suns had already taken the ball into the frontcourt and then were inbounding again, from the frontcourt, after a foul.

I thought I knew the rule, but apparently I don't.

Wasn't that after a time out? They didn't advance the ball I thought. If they don't advance the ball, they can throw it in the back court right? I don't remember what happened before that now.