Suns @ Nuggets Sunday game thread 12-25-2022 (Christmas Night)

[Cheesebeef]

While you have a point with the rest of your post, I'm tired of the "Ayton sucks because Jokic owned him" narrative. Jokic owns everybody. Even his close peers like Embiid. The guy is a machine.

He is without a doubt a great player but he doesn’t put up 41/15/15 against everyone. That’s 16 points, 6 assists and 4 rebounds above his average.

That doesn’t mean Ayton sucks though. Hes just not effective at stopping at Jokic… and in more general terms, he’s not close to that guy or the other elite big men in the league. He’s a very good one, but the chasm between him and the elite is pretty big.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

While you have a point with the rest of your post, I'm tired of the "Ayton sucks because Jokic owned him" narrative. Jokic owns everybody. Even his close peers like Embiid. The guy is a machine.

Chap, last I checked he isn’t averaging 41/15/15. He didn’t own Ayton. He crushed him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He is without a doubt a great player but he doesn’t put up 41/15/15 against everyone. That’s 16 points, 6 assists and 4 rebounds above his average.

That doesn’t mean Ayton sucks though. Hes just not effective at stopping at Jokic… and in more general terms, he’s not close to that guy or the other elite big men in the league. He’s a very good one, but the chasm between him and the elite is pretty big.

Jesus it frightens me sometimes how close our thoughts align.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jesus it frightens me sometimes how close our thoughts align.

It’s not just our thoughts, but the TIMING of our thoughts aligning is the freakiest thing to me.

 

[Western Font]

Sorry, that last point is ridiculous. It isn’t some incomprehensible thing to want to cheer for a team that actually has a chance to win a title. This team’s window has shut with guys like Bridges and Ayton not taking steps forward to become the stars the team drafted them to be. KD would have improved those chances.

I mean, let’s go back in time… were you angry when the Suns traded Horny for Barkley? Should the fans who loved that trade have just cheered for someone else when it didn’t happen.

You can love watching our guys and lose. That’s your perogative and I won’t begrudge you. Won’t understand it, but won’t tell you not to. But when you basically tell the fans who’d rather rather win and upgrade at the cost of “our” guys they should go cheer for another team, well, then your questioning our fandom and that’s garbage. Period.

“Sorry?” What’s the point of that word? I just said how I cheer as a fan and where my limits are. You’re the one who just said that you honestly wonder what some members are doing when they watch games.

For the record, yes, I had misgivings about the Barkley trade. If you were to search you’d find my feelings on the 1990 team which is my favorite Suns team ever.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, last I checked he isn’t averaging 41/15/15. He didn’t own Ayton. He crushed him.

Ok Ayton again was the main reason we lost. The narrative has become the norm.

 

[Finito]

He is without a doubt a great player but he doesn’t put up 41/15/15 against everyone. That’s 16 points, 6 assists and 4 rebounds above his average.

That doesn’t mean Ayton sucks though. Hes just not effective at stopping at Jokic… and in more general terms, he’s not close to that guy or the other elite big men in the league. He’s a very good one, but the chasm between him and the elite is pretty big.

Joker is in his bag right now. He’s in a zone. In his last 10 games he’s had games of

32/16/9
33/10/9
31/12/14
43/14/8
40/27/10
45/15/15

And I didn’t even mention his “bad games” like

28/8/8
25/11/8
13/13/13


Jokic is playing at a level like I’ve never seen a center play right now. Nobody is close to him right maybe in history? Maybe Wilt? He’s just gone to a whole new level.

 

[Mainstreet]

Taking nothing away from Jokic, but I still remember the Suns going 4-0 against the Nuggets in their Finals run.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Taking nothing away from Jokic, but I still remember the Suns going 4-0 against the Nuggets in their Finals run.

Do you also remember that they didn’t have Jamal Murray and Porter was compromised with back problems that would require another surgery?

 

[Mainstreet]

Do you also remember that they didn’t have Jamal Murray and Porter was compromised with back problems that would require another surgery?

Yeah, I remember, but I'm only talking about Jokic. So far, his 2020-21 and 2021–22 stats are better.

 

[Finito]

Taking nothing away from Jokic, but I still remember the Suns going 4-0 against the Nuggets in their Finals run.

Yeah missing 2 of there 3 best players come on now

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah missing 2 of there 3 best players come on now

I don't remember Suns fans feeling sorry for them.

 

[Phrazbit]

Do you also remember that they didn’t have Jamal Murray and Porter was compromised with back problems that would require another surgery?

Yeah missing 2 of there 3 best players come on now

Porter played, his back problems didn't flair up again until the next season and there will never be a time when he isn't compromised with back problems. The only reason he fell to Denver in the draft is because his back is that of a 50 year old.

They're better off without Porter anyway, he is among the worst defensive players in the league.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok Ayton again was the main reason we lost. The narrative has become the norm.

Literally no one said that. But it doesn’t change the fact that jokic played well above his average game against Ayton which means, yeah, in a razor thin game, Ayton’s poor performance defensively was a contributing factor to the loss. Not to mention his missed FT down the stretch which would’ve made the game a winner in regulation.

 

[Chaplin]

Literally no one said that. But it doesn’t change the fact that jokic played well above his average game against Ayton which means, yeah, in a razor thin game, Ayton’s poor performance defensively was a contributing factor to the loss. Not to mention his missed FT down the stretch which would’ve made the game a winner in regulation.

And Mikel making another shot or two would have won it, and if Landry hit just one more three, and if Chris Paul hit more than 50% of his free throws...

There's a lot of blame to go around -- it's just bizarre that this board sets its sights ONLY on DA. And don't even try to deny it, you know it's true.

 

[Finito]

Literally no one said that. But it doesn’t change the fact that jokic played well above his average game against Ayton which means, yeah, in a razor thin game, Ayton’s poor performance defensively was a contributing factor to the loss. Not to mention his missed FT down the stretch which would’ve made the game a winner in regulation.

This game doesn’t bother me. I can deal with missing half the team and losing by 3 to the number 1 seed in OT with the front runner for MVP having a career night. That’s fight. Matter of fact that’s actually encouraging to me.

The games that concern me are when this team just flat out decides they aren’t gonna compete and get down 40 and pack it in. Those games are so head scratching.

This game falls on Bridges and Paul

Paul shooting a combined 11/27 including 5/10 free throws and 0/3 from 3. The fact he can’t even shoot free throws shows that shoulder is bothering him. I expect him to be toast come playoff time.

I think Bridges had 1 basket in quarters 2,3 and 4 combined and played no defense. I don’t know what’s going on with him. His play has just fallen off a cliff. Maybe he needs to sit down for awhile and rest

 

[Cheesebeef]

And Mikel making another shot or two would have won it, and if Landry hit just one more three, and if Chris Paul hit more than 50% of his free throws...

There's a lot of blame to go around -- it's just bizarre that this board sets its sights ONLY on DA. And don't even try to deny it, you know it's true.

This just ain’t true that the board only set its sights on DA. There’s an ongoing debate about Bridges sucking ass pretty much every day. I don’t know how anyone can deny that.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the Suns primary problem is they are shorthanded. Some of the responsibility falls back to James Jones for the situation.

They are missing Devin Booker, Cam Payne, Landry Shamet and Cam Johnson who are out with injuries.

Also, the Suns are missing a power forward who is sitting out, plus they have an open roster spot.

That's six regular roster spots the Suns are down.

Playing (2) two-way players are not going to win a lot of games.

 

[Chaplin]

This just ain’t true that the board only set its sights on DA. There’s an ongoing debate about Bridges sucking ass pretty much every day. I don’t know how anyone can deny that.

Ha! You yourself have called out this very board for the Mikel love, so don't pull that card.

 

[Western Font]

I in particular sympathize with this position. When you consider players "yours," you want them to win the championship for the victory to be most meaningful. You'd rather see that than fill the team with "superior" players you have no emotional attachment to.

It’s my perspective, anyway. Bridges was a Suns draft pick—and a great pick after a bunch of bad picks. He’s struggling in areas but I hope he’s still developing. Meanwhile KD has been criticized here for ring-chasing and Twitter shenanigans—with language far harsher than I would ever use.

Bridges has (unfortunately) been to as many finals as anyone while in a Suns uniform. You never know what will happen: the Barkley trade was a great trade but yielded a finals appearance followed by two of the biggest letdowns in franchise history. And I like Barkley a lot more than Durant. Maybe I just want the Suns championship that I want more than any Suns championship.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And Mikel making another shot or two would have won it, and if Landry hit just one more three, and if Chris Paul hit more than 50% of his free throws...

There's a lot of blame to go around -- it's just bizarre that this board sets its sights ONLY on DA. And don't even try to deny it, you know it's true.

Personally I blame the nugz loss on bridges. I was just responding to the jokic-Ayton matchup.

And yes, Ayton will always be the biggest focal point because he’s the most physically gifted player we have and he was the #1 pick. Not denying that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ha! You yourself have called out this very board for the Mikel love, so don't pull that card.

Are you saying there hasn’t been an ongoing slamming of bridges? I mean, see this thread and the mikal progress thread lately.