Suns @ Pelicans Wednesday game thread 2-3-2021

[TJ]

Ayton has played the same on offense since he's been a Sun. Setting picks too far from the basket and not being assertive and calling for the ball or establishing position.He also disappears offensively after the second quarter. It's not on Monty when the same issues were present with Igor as head coach.

So what’s he supposed to do: Walk the ball up the court? It’s a utilization issue. Ayton has been working his ass off on improving his positioning down low, calling for the ball and being open for lobs. Monty’s admitted as much that Ayton gets underutilized

 

[Hoop Head]

So what’s he supposed to do: Walk the ball up the court? It’s a utilization issue. Ayton has been working his ass off on improving his positioning down low, calling for the ball and being open for lobs. Monty’s admitted as much that Ayton gets underutilized

Im saying the complaints are the same but aimed in different directions. 2 years ago it was blame Igor and now its blame Monty. Perhaps its Ayton who has the issue. Montys always bringing up guys not following the game plan and Ayton is the only guy who is playing the same exact way he has offensively for 3 years now. I doubt that's the game plan.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Versus one of our brick chuckers missing outright? His turnover rate is overstated here, and it's hard for any player to get into an offensive flow when the team stops running plays for them after the 2nd quarter. That's not on Ayton, that's on Monty

His TO rate is SO much higher than he’s credited for. Post feeds go against the passer’s TO stats but with Ayton 80% of the time it’s because he doesn’t keep his man sealed or he fumbles the pass. He’s a TO machine.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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So Monty took Ayton off of Zion because he was afraid of what Steven Adams would do? Great coaching!!

Yeah it might mean adams dominates the glass but he’s not going to kill cam offensively in the post. Monty blew that. In fact quite a few people have been beating on montys coaching lately and I have to say, I’m finding myself agreeing with the critics.

 

[TJ]

His TO rate is SO much higher than he’s credited for. Post feeds go against the passer’s TO stats but with Ayton 80% of the time it’s because he doesn’t keep his man sealed or he fumbles the pass. He’s a TO machine.

Then you need better passers.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

James jones deserves some blame in all this as well. He designed a team that’s pretty light in the loafers so he could get great shooting but we are anything but a great shooting team. We get a TON of good open looks and just don’t drop em consistently enough. And monty has no counter. So we will get pounded by big teams like the pels or lakers and if he aren’t shooting lights out we will lose.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Then you need better passers.

Admittedly our guys are not great at feeding the post, but you can’t possibly argue that Ayton presents a good post target with reliable hands. If you take either position I don’t think you’re watching the games.

 

[elindholm]

James jones deserves some blame in all this as well. He designed a team that’s pretty light in the loafers so he could get great shooting but we are anything but a great shooting team. We get a TON of good open looks and just don’t drop em consistently enough. And monty has no counter. So we will get pounded by big teams like the pels or lakers and if he aren’t shooting lights out we will lose.

Although I basically agree, there's a huge middle ground between "lights out" and how the Suns shot tonight. If they make 35% of their threes, it's a much different game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Then you need better passers.

Did you see the play where CP3 was pissed and turned away in disgust when Ayton couldn’t get position on a SF and thought he had to offensive foul him to get a lob? He’s playing with one of the best PGs of all time who’s made a living out getting the most out of big men. He played last season with a pure PG in Rubio who was a great passer and Ayton still had problems. When the coaches change, when the PGs change and even keep upgrading and Ayton still isn’t getting the ball in good position, don’t you ever at least start to wonder if the lack of touches are on him? Again, CP3 and Rubio are very good passers, who have consistently made big men better. And it’s not like Monty has never figured out how to use big men in the post. He did it with David West and he did it with a young Anthony Davis.

So, we’ve had numerous coaches, one of them with really good success using big men, young or veteran, as focal points of the offense and two different PGs who have never had a problem getting big men the ball, and it’s still not happening no matter who surrounds the constant figure in the equation. When that’s the case, how do you not start at least questioning the constant in the ongoing problem?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Although I basically agree, there's a huge middle ground between "lights out" and how the Suns shot tonight. If they make 35% of their threes, it's a much different game.

That’s a difference of 12 points. We lost by 22. Yeah it might change the trajectory of the game, but that’s full of what if’s that didn’t actually didn’t happen.

 

[Hoop Head]

Did you see the play where CP3 was pissed and turned away in disgust when Ayton couldn’t get position on a SF and had to offensive foul him to get a lob? He’s playing with one of the best PGs of all time who’s made a living out getting the most out of big men. He played last season with a pure PG in Rubio who was a great passer and Ayton still had problems. When the coaches change, when the PGs change and even keep upgrading and Ayton still isn’t getting the ball in good position, don’t you ever at least start to wonder if the lack of touches are on him? Again, CP3 and Rubio are very good passers, who have consistently made big men better. And it’s not like Monty has never figured out how to use big men in the post. He did it with David West and he did it with a young Anthony Davis.

So, we’ve had numerous coaches, one of them with really good success using big men as focal points of the offense and two different PGs who have never had a problem getting big men the ball, and it’s still not happening no matter who surrounds the constant figure in the equation. When that’s the case, it speaks for itself what the problem is IMO.

You said everything I was going to, basically. I'd add that Embiid to the list of bigs that Monty worked with, since he was the lead assistant in Philly before coming to Phoenix.

No one complained about the passes that were made to set up Alex Len before Ayton was here. His stone hands caught some and Booker was one of the guys throwing them. I'm seeing Ayton bobble passes the same way but now its all the fault of the passer and coach rather than the recipient.

 

[Shaggy]

Crazy how everyone was happy how Ayton was playing the last few games then turn on him when he doesn't play well.

 

[Hoop Head]

Crazy how everyone was happy how Ayton was playing the last few games then turn on him when he doesn't play well.

Its the up and down play that is so frustrating. Watching him do that also makes it clear that its a motor issue. He lacks the drive to play hard night in and out. Its frustrating to see when he's due for an extension soon, he'll be eligible at seasons end. He definitely hasn't earned the max extension he's likely to ask for.

I haven't watched a #1 overall pick so much this early in their career but Ayton isn't playing like the top guy in his draft class, or even in the top 3. He's definitely behind Luka, Trae Young, and SGA. Yet he does have the physical gifts to be the best still but its his motor and drive that keep him from doing so.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Tough loss by suns lol i feel zzz round mid 3rd gave up on comeback.

Ok road trip hope homestand goes decently

 

[Russ Smith]

Weird game. When Lonzo got back to back fouls on Booker to go to 4 and sat I thought here comes a run, nobody can guard booker. Seemed like Booker sat shortly after that I think the lead was down to 9. By the time he got back in it was a 21 point lead for the Pelicans who just kept nailing 3's.

I guess Booker is on a schedule for minutes right now from what they said on tv, seemed like a very bad time to sit him

I hope Bridges is ok he took a weird spill lost his footing almost did the splits, and he was limping after that

 

[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

I'm still waiting to hear about Crowder who went out. He left the game and didn't come back. I thought the Suns announcer said something about foot but I'm not quite sure.

I was hoping the Suns would finally have a full roster on their home stand.

 

[Mainstreet]

James jones deserves some blame in all this as well. He designed a team that’s pretty light in the loafers so he could get great shooting but we are anything but a great shooting team. We get a TON of good open looks and just don’t drop em consistently enough. And monty has no counter. So we will get pounded by big teams like the pels or lakers and if he aren’t shooting lights out we will lose.

This is a huge issue and I don't see a fix in sight.

Suns have lots of wings and guards but light not much size upfront for depth. It doesn't help Crowder is not a true power forward.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is a huge issue and I don't see a fix in sight.

Suns have lots of wings and guards but light not much size upfront for depth. It doesn't help Crowder is not a true power forward.

I do. Go back in time and give him a roster that's only 3 or 4 players away from being a competitive, balanced team. The hole we were in was much too deep to dig out from over night especially given the national perspective on Sarver and the Suns. The quick fixes available to some of the teams weren't there for us.

I'm not saying every move he made was golden but the idea that this is actually the roster he wanted befuddles me. Regardless, and despite our difficulties in landing sought after free agents, in just 28 months he has turned us from the absolutely worst team in the NBA to a winning squad.

 

[Hoop Head]

This is a huge issue and I don't see a fix in sight.

Suns have lots of wings and guards but light not much size upfront for depth. It doesn't help Crowder is not a true power forward.

I'd add that there doesn't appear to be a fix by trade either because they have no tradable assets outside of their core. Picking up Frank's option just to have a 5 million dollar trade chip would have been the easiest way to have something to deal. They also could have worked a sign and trade for Baynes but that didn't seem to be considered with how quiet things were regarding Baynes this past offseason.

I guess they could trade Nader but he's been really good for the team off the bench and barely makes more than the league minimum. They have guys like Moore and Jones to deal if they can find a trade for a player making the league minimum.

So this is who they are outside of picking up someone waived by another team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do. Go back in time and give him a roster that's only a few spots away from being a competitive, balanced team. The hole we were in was much too deep to dig out from over night especially given the national perspective on Sarver and the Suns. The quick fixes available to some of the teams weren't there for us.

I'm not saying every move he made was golden but the idea that this is actually the roster he wanted befuddles me. Regardless, and despite our difficulties in landing sought after free agents, in just 28 months he has turned us from the absolutely worst team in the NBA to a winning squad.

When the Suns traded for Chris Paul they moved their window up to now. A team doesn't spend $85 million on a point guard if they are not ready to compete.

Besides there were power forwards available like DerricK Favors.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd add that there doesn't appear to be a fix by trade either because they have no tradable assets outside of their core. Picking up Frank's option just to have a 5 million dollar trade chip would have been the easiest way to have something to deal. They also could have worked a sign and trade for Baynes but that didn't seem to be considered with how quiet things were regarding Baynes this past offseason.

I guess they could trade Nader but he's been really good for the team off the bench and barely makes more than the league minimum. They have guys like Moore and Jones to deal if they can find a trade for a player making the league minimum.

So this is who they are outside of picking up someone waived by another team.

Jae Crowder may be another tradable commodity but the Suns would have to get a power forward back.

I keep looking at the Heat roster because they are struggling but I can't find a player that would work.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Crazy how everyone was happy how Ayton was playing the last few games then turn on him when he doesn't play well.

“Crazy” or expected? Play well get kudos, play like a shrinking violet get called out on it. Seems pretty simple and foreseeable and reasonable, no?

 

[AzStevenCal]

When the Suns traded for Chris Paul they moved their window up to now. A team doesn't spend $85 million on a point guard if they are not ready to compete.

Besides there were power forwards available like DerricK Favors.

Available and available to us are not necessarily the same thing. And if we somehow had been able to sign him and then, like Payne and Saric and Jalen Smith, he'd been unavailable for most of the season to date, would that still be the fault of our GM?

 

[Mainstreet]

Available and available to us are not necessarily the same thing. And if we somehow had been able to sign him and then, like Payne and Saric and Jalen Smith, he'd been unavailable for most of the season to date, would that still be the fault of our GM?

Favors has been playing unless I missed something. No, injuries are not the fault of the GM unless a player has a tendency to be frequently injured.

If the Suns had kept Rubio and traded Oubre they would have a trade exception and a first round pick to work with.

Other power forwards were available.