Suns Playoff Run Thread

[Zobaczcie suki]

Hmm

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyone know if the Suns own the tiebreaker versus the Jazz? I know they play again in Utah.

 

[Joe Mama]

considering that we're a combined 0-5 against SA/OKC losing by an average margin of 11 ppg, I'd say the answer to your question above is there's no way in hell this team would win 2 or 3 games against either one and I've got no interest in watching us getting our asses swept or getting pushed around for 5 games.

Unfortunately these last games against San Antonio and Oklahoma City have me agree with you. We might be able to get one game at home, but I think it would be a miracle to get more than that. However getting destroyed in the playoffs, especially against a young team with incredible upside like Oklahoma City might be exactly what you want. That might convince Sarver more than barely missing the playoffs mostly because I'm a poor first half of the season.

because the only thing that keeps this motley crew of talent together is Nash. Without him, they'd be the worst team in the league IMO and I really don't see the point in the worst team in the league gaining playoff experience because it's likely that any title contender that's ever rebuilt on this team will have pretty much none of those guys left.

I was right there with you on this two weeks ago when I really started watching again. However I'm not sure I agree now. They would still probably be better than Washington, Charlotte, and perhaps New Orleans... that may be a stretch.

I would really like to know what they have been offered for Steve Nash. My guess is that is really of the problem. I don't really think he makes sense for many teams... at least not if they have to give up much to get him.. It's the same reason they held on to Amare Stoudemire instead of trading him at the deadline his last season here. They couldn't even get Cleveland to fork over JJ Hickson.

What does the 2013 free agent class look like?

Joe

 

[FArting]

Anyone know if the Suns own the tiebreaker versus the Jazz? I know they play again in Utah.

Yes they own the tiebreaker vs the Jazz.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Utah has by far the easiest schedule from this point forward... We will need to win out to have a shot...

Starts tonight!! I'll be there!!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Why do people call the Suns an old team? The only players aged 29 or older are Nash, Hill, and Redd. .

Because Dud is the only young player worth a damn?

I like Gortat, but he won't be relevant by the time we're moving toward contention again.

Other than that, every other player on the roster is either a lifetime bench player or expendable.

 

[slinslin]

That and the fact that Robin Lopez 1988 and Markieff Morris 1989 are the only Suns players born after 1985.

And their key players and leaders are going to be 38 and 40.

 

[elindholm]

Because Dud is the only young player worth a damn?

That's why they're a bad team, not an old one. Some posters seem to get the two confused.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That's why they're a bad team, not an old one. Some posters seem to get the two confused.

Ha, you judge a team on their talent, not their scrubs. Our only talent is old, ergo, an old team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ha, you judge a team on their talent, not their scrubs. Our only talent is old, ergo, an old team.

ding dong.

 

[elindholm]

Ha, you judge a team on their talent, not their scrubs. Our only talent is old, ergo, an old team.

That glib substitution confuses the real issue. The "old" charge is just another way of saying that the Suns should get rid of Nash. It's fine with me if the Suns and Nash part ways this summer, but that will make the Suns younger, not better. Over the next few years, the Suns will add some draft picks, and yes, those picks will probably be higher if the Suns no longer have Nash around to inflate the win total.

But it is a serious, serious error to believe that all an NBA franchise has to do to "rebuild" is gut the roster of its veteran talent and wait for the draft to lay out a new course. In five years they are much more likely to look like the current non-Nash Suns than like, say, the Thunder. The Suns already have on their roster -- among the very scrubs whose talent level you dismiss -- a former #6 pick (Childress) and a former #8 pick (Frye). You can endure two years of 30 wins each and get that as your reward. And it's not even like those two players have been particularly unsuccessful, relative to their draft class and position.

Pointing the finger at Nash and saying that the Suns' problem is that they are "old" is a misleading oversimplification, and to declare it self-evident is pretty myopic.

 

[hcsilla]

What does the 2013 free agent class look like?

Josh Smith.

Chris Paul, Dwight Howard (unless they extend their contracts with their actual or new teams).

Bynum, Millsap, Al Jefferson plus the entire 2009 draft class as RFA's.

And of course Hakim Warrick.

 

[slinslin]

James Harden is RFA in 2013 and it is doubtful that OKC could match a max offer with Westbrook and Durant on the payroll.

OKC has to hope that they can sign Harden to a below market value extension or trade him for value to someone who would give him a max extension.

Serge Ibaka is RFA as well and OKC has to worry about him also.

 

[hcsilla]

Yes, it was a typo, the entire 2009 draft class is RFA (well, the valuable part if it).

 

[Cheesebeef]

That glib substitution confuses the real issue. The "old" charge is just another way of saying that the Suns should get rid of Nash. It's fine with me if the Suns and Nash part ways this summer, but that will make the Suns younger, not better. Over the next few years, the Suns will add some draft picks, and yes, those picks will probably be higher if the Suns no longer have Nash around to inflate the win total.

But it is a serious, serious error to believe that all an NBA franchise has to do to "rebuild" is gut the roster of its veteran talent and wait for the draft to lay out a new course. In five years they are much more likely to look like the current non-Nash Suns than like, say, the Thunder. The Suns already have on their roster -- among the very scrubs whose talent level you dismiss -- a former #6 pick (Childress) and a former #8 pick (Frye). You can endure two years of 30 wins each and get that as your reward. And it's not even like those two players have been particularly unsuccessful, relative to their draft class and position.

Pointing the finger at Nash and saying that the Suns' problem is that they are "old" is a misleading oversimplification, and to declare it self-evident is pretty myopic.

I'm confused. what exactly do you think the Suns should do this off-season?

 

[Joe Mama]

James Harden is RFA in 2013 and it is doubtful that OKC could match a max offer with Westbrook and Durant on the payroll.

OKC has to hope that they can sign Harden to a below market value extension or trade him for value to someone who would give him a max extension.

Serge Ibaka is RFA as well and OKC has to worry about him also.

if James Harden is healthy and doesn't slide backwards my prediction is that they will move Westbrook and pay James Harden whatever is necessary to keep him. I was talking to somebody else about this yesterday morning. I do agree there is no way they can keep all four of those guys.

Joe

 

[elindholm]

if James Harden is healthy and doesn't slide backwards my prediction is that they will move Westbrook and pay James Harden whatever is necessary to keep him.

I would be floored if they moved Westbrook. He's a top-15 player in the league and fills a position of greater need than Harden does. Also, Harden gets to play against the Suns only a few times a year, so his value isn't quite so high as we would get the impression of.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I would be floored if they moved Westbrook. He's a top-15 player in the league and fills a position of greater need than Harden does. Also, Harden gets to play against the Suns only a few times a year, so his value isn't quite so high as we would get the impression of.

agreed.

Harden's the guy to go after. Bummer we let Dragic get away. A future back-court of Dragic/Harden would be a pretty damn good way to start rebuilding this trainwreck.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Awesome game last night! Fitz sat right in front of me! Place was on fire!

 

[hcsilla]

Sooner or later contender teams have to be ready to pay luxury tax.

If OKC is the exception then they will just trade Harden to a team which is gonna match the max. offer (or close to it) that Harden will probably get from somewhere else.

 

[Joe Mama]

I would be floored if they moved Westbrook. He's a top-15 player in the league and fills a position of greater need than Harden does. Also, Harden gets to play against the Suns only a few times a year, so his value isn't quite so high as we would get the impression of.

Westbrook and Harden may not be listed at the same position, but they play the same position. They are both combo guards. In fact if you are saying is think you are that Westbrook is more valuable because he's a point guard I would argue that Harden has better point guard skills and is a better decision-maker. He is not a pure point guard by any means. Don't get me wrong. But neither is Russell Westbrook.

it will be interesting to see for sure. Let me revise my prediction... if they let one of these guys go via free agency or trade I predict it will be Westbrook. I sure wish the Phoenix Suns were in that predicament. We very well may be there arming out and trying to accumulate young talent by next season/summer.

Joe

 

[elindholm]

Westbrook and Harden may not be listed at the same position, but they play the same position. They are both combo guards. In fact if you are saying is think you are that Westbrook is more valuable because he's a point guard I would argue that Harden has better point guard skills and is a better decision-maker.

I was surprised to see that Westbrook's assist numbers are so low this season (5.4 compared to 8-plus the last two years). I haven't watched many Thunder games this year, so maybe his role has changed slightly. But, in any case, I disagree that Harden has better PG skills. Westbrook is more explosive off the dribble and can more easily generate opportunities for his teammates by drawing attention in the paint. Harden is definitely more of a wing, at least from what I've seen.

I guess another way to put it is, if you had to pick one of them to be part of the core of a rebuilding team, I think Westbrook would be the automatic choice. Maybe the question is different if you are deciding who is the best #2 for Durant, but my impression is that Westbrook has made Durant better to a greater degree than Harden has.

 

[desertdawg]

Awesome game last night! Fitz sat right in front of me! Place was on fire!

That's cool.

 

[jagu]

Can't believe these Suns are still fighting.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Like Cheese, a bit mystified at what you're getting at here, any your interpretation of what I said, but here goes:

That glib substitution confuses the real issue. The "old" charge is just another way of saying that the Suns should get rid of Nash. It's fine with me if the Suns and Nash part ways this summer, but that will make the Suns younger, not better. Over the next few years, the Suns will add some draft picks, and yes, those picks will probably be higher if the Suns no longer have Nash around to inflate the win total.

It's more of a "not good" problem than old problem. If Stat were still on the team, and they managed to acquire Gortat as well, I'd be more than happy to extend Nash. As we're miles away from contending for a championship, it's best for both parties to part ways. Nash can go chase a championship with a team that is committed to competing for championships, and we can get draft picks commensurate to our talent. In any sport, your team should be competing for a championship or building toward it: right now we're doing neither.

But it is a serious, serious error to believe that all an NBA franchise has to do to "rebuild" is gut the roster of its veteran talent and wait for the draft to lay out a new course.

Who said that was a guaranteed formula? Unfortunately at this point, we may not have any other options. With few exceptions, top tier stars win championships, and top tier stars didn't come here before Sarver. Considering that and the current state of the franchise/roster, there's not a chance in hell that's changing anytime soon. Our only legitimate chance of getting a star will be through the draft.

In five years they are much more likely to look like the current non-Nash Suns than like, say, the Thunder.

C'mon Eric, "much more likely"? Take away Nash and we're conservatively picking top 3. If after 5 years we're stuck with one borderline all star, one other legit starter, and a bunch of overpaid bench players, it'll be an unbelievably poor draft run. (Not that the FO isn't capable of that, but picking top 5 consistently would hopefully bring some talent) We may not be the Thunder, but at least we'll have acquired some talent to build around for the future.

The Suns already have on their roster -- among the very scrubs whose talent level you dismiss -- a former #6 pick (Childress) and a former #8 pick (Frye). You can endure two years of 30 wins each and get that as your reward. And it's not even like those two players have been particularly unsuccessful, relative to their draft class and position.

Certainly, or you can end up with Amare or Marion, two players you can legitimately build around. Obviously there are no guarantees with the draft, but again, what's the alternative? Re-sign Nash, overpay some other free agents and continue to get late lottery/mid first round picks?

At this point, I don't see any way to acquire a franchise player to make us relevant outside of the draft. Do you?