Suns Press conference today. 07/16/19

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Other than you're penchant to lecture and talk down to all of us, who has suggested we would be a defensive juggernaut? You don't like the team as constructed, we get it. It can be argued how much exaggeration you are using, but outside of that, there isn't much point.

I dunno, seems like he’s using a lot of numbers to back up his claims.

 

[Chaplin]

I dunno, seems like he’s using a lot of numbers to back up his claims.

Are the numbers correct? It doesn't seem to me that they are.

Claiming we are all saying we're going to be a great defensive team is, if not outright lying, definitely exaggeration.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Where are you getting those stats? I'm not showing the same thing on Basketball-Reference. Booker is low but Tyler Johnson is middle of the league. #296 of 530, Ayton #390, Saric is #395, and Oubre 362.

Defensive Box Plus/Minus ranks Johnson 104 out of 183, Ayton was 85th, Oubre 139th, and Saric 149 of 183. So again, not as bad as you say and different enough that I question where you're pulling those numbers from.

Hmmm, Dr. Jones, where you getting your #’s?

 

[Hoop Head]

Hmm haven’t seen a single poster say “never” in regards to his shotblocking potential.

I came pretty close to saying "never", close enough that I believe I'm who he was referencing since he posted just after mine. I'll quote it below. I don't think he will ever be a great shot blocker. I suppose it could happen, of course, but I wouldn't bet on it with any less than 50 to 1 odds.

Horford is a good team defender but not a rim protector. I think that's the most we can hope for from Ayton. Ayton isn't going to be a great shot blocker, or even a good one, but I think he showed later in the year when he was put on Lebron or Giannis that he could play some solid D on them. If Monty can install a good defensive scheme for the team, with Ayton picking guys up at a certain point then I think he could work well in the team defense scenario also.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Where are you getting those stats? I'm not showing the same thing on Basketball-Reference. Booker is low but Tyler Johnson is middle of the league. #296 of 530, Ayton #390, Saric is #395, and Oubre 362.

Defensive Box Plus/Minus ranks Johnson 104 out of 183, Ayton was 85th, Oubre 139th, and Saric 149 of 183. So again, not as bad as you say and different enough that I question where you're pulling those numbers from.

Here: https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=ADVANCED&group=1&time=0

 

[Dr. Jones]

Other than you're penchant to lecture and talk down to all of us, who has suggested we would be a defensive juggernaut? You don't like the team as constructed, we get it. It can be argued how much exaggeration you are using, but outside of that, there isn't much point.

Didn't know I was doing that. I will watch my overall tone.

I do feel a lot more "doom and gloom" overall regarding this team than most. I find it hard to be hopeful knowing how horrible we actually were last year.

A coach can only do so much. the talent of the players usually wins out IMO. And since our front office and owner have proven to be very inept in their respective roles, I just get really angry about them as a whole.

 

[Chaplin]

Here: https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=ADVANCED&group=1&time=0

Ha! Did you see Booker's Usage Rate is 3rd in the entire league? LOL

 

[Chaplin]

Didn't know I was doing that. I will watch my overall tone.

I do feel a lot more "doom and gloom" overall regarding this team than most. I find it hard to be hopeful knowing how horrible we actually were last year.

A coach can only do so much. the talent of the players usually wins out IMO. And since our front office and owner have proven to be very inept in their respective roles, I just get really angry about them as a whole.

I just think it's terribly difficult to say much of anything about this team right now. We can go on and on about individual stats, but this is a different situation for all the guys we acquired, and it's a different situation for the guys we still have.

I truly believe we have a better TEAM. The question is, will it translate, and I don't think looking at previous years' stats will make answering that question any easier.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ha! Did you see Booker's Usage Rate is 3rd in the entire league? LOL

Yeah. And points per shot is top flight also. The kid can score.

I just find that his defense gives more back than it should and Ayton doesn't help him at all when people get by him on the way to the rim.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I just think it's terribly difficult to say much of anything about this team right now. We can go on and on about individual stats, but this is a different situation for all the guys we acquired, and it's a different situation for the guys we still have.

I truly believe we have a better TEAM. The question is, will it translate, and I don't think looking at previous years' stats will make answering that question any easier.

I somewhat agree that unit cohesiveness can lift the entire ship. I just continue to worry that if you put 5 guys who weren't good defenders together, then hope they get better together, you may be in for a disappointing ending..

 

[Chaplin]

I somewhat agree that unit cohesiveness can lift the entire ship. I just continue to worry that if you put 5 guys who weren't good defenders together, then hope they get better together, you may be in for a disappointing ending..

I also think that I have a higher appreciation of coaching than you do. I'm cautiously optimistic that having Monty will pay dividends on both sides of the floor. I don't think we'll be a defensive juggernaut, but I'd like to see us at least become competent. Great teams have survived on simple competent defense in the past. SEE: Houston Rockets.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here: https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=ADVANCED&group=1&time=0

Appreciate it. I'm not sure how 2 sites can be so different. I can see some discrepancy with how players qualify, like one site might set that at 50 games while another sets it at 1000 minutes but that's a big discrepancy with Tyler Johnson specifically and I'm not sure how that's justified. Advanced stats don't tell the whole story, IMO.

We'll see what happens next year but I don't see anyone thinking the Suns will be a top 10 defensive team, or even top 15 based on their personnel. I think #15 is probably their ceiling as a team but they should have enough offensive firepower to rack up some wins.

 

[95pro]

Didn't know I was doing that. I will watch my overall tone.

I do feel a lot more "doom and gloom" overall regarding this team than most. I find it hard to be hopeful knowing how horrible we actually were last year.

A coach can only do so much. the talent of the players usually wins out IMO. And since our front office and owner have proven to be very inept in their respective roles, I just get really angry about them as a whole.

Regarding last year...new front office this year and same owner...last year's "talent" is gone and legit nba talent is on our roster.

Coaching does make a difference, look at teams like Dallas and San Antonio. Better coaching and better players doesn't sound like doom and gloom to me, sounds like an improvement, not an astronomical one but we'll be better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

my biggest reason for worry about Ayton being a low-post defender or shot-blocker is he just doesn't seem to have natural instincts for that kind of play. coaching can definitely help, but there's an apparent lack of those instincts you either have or don't that I fear will limit him.

on the perimeter, he's got GREAT potential though. We saw that in pretty big one game spurts against LeBron and Giannis and I think he WILL even get better there. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone we can put next to him to cover for the other deficiencies.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I also find it curious that so many people are now saying "coaching is going to make a huge difference" considering before Igor got the axe, the overwhelming majority of the board said coaching wasn't the issue, but talent was. Lot of people have done a big 180 on that without even knowing it making the argument now that talent doesn't matter as much because they know we'll have better coaching.

That said, I DO think Monty can make a solid difference because I jumped ship on Igor pretty early. That team, as young as it was, was too talented to be worse than the previous year and not only worse, but get blown the hell out in a bunch of games.

 

[Proximo]

FYI: Devin Booker and Tyler Johnson were 4th and 5th worst IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE in defensive rating. Saric was 24th worst. Atleast Ayton & Oubre were in the bottom 35% of the league. Booker & Johnson were bottom 1%. Saric bottom 10%.

This team will not be hanging their hat on defense. Monty can't change that folks.

I am going to state the obvious here - but I guess you are not realizing it. When you are down 20 points and you have lost 5 times more than you have won, you are not going to be playing up to your potential defensively. Just being on a bad team makes players defensive effort worse.

Human nature does realistically play a huge role in self motivating yourself. Also from what I could see, Igor was not exactly getting on them about their defense.

It is not a coincidence that during the stretch we were playing .500 ball we were an above average defensive team. Which also clearly indicates the team is capable of better defensive performance than they showed for the majority of the year.

To not expect a dramatic improvement if we are more competitive and have a coach emphasizing the importance defense is ridiculous.

 

[Proximo]

Appreciate it. I'm not sure how 2 sites can be so different. I can see some discrepancy with how players qualify, like one site might set that at 50 games while another sets it at 1000 minutes but that's a big discrepancy with Tyler Johnson specifically and I'm not sure how that's justified. Advanced stats don't tell the whole story, IMO.

We'll see what happens next year but I don't see anyone thinking the Suns will be a top 10 defensive team, or even top 15 based on their personnel. I think #15 is probably their ceiling as a team but they should have enough offensive firepower to rack up some wins.

Well I can tell you which ever site lists him as a bad defensive player is just plain wrong. He was very good defensively for us, especially his team defense.

 

[Proximo]

I also find it curious that so many people are now saying "coaching is going to make a huge difference" considering before Igor got the axe, the overwhelming majority of the board said coaching wasn't the issue, but talent was. Lot of people have done a big 180 on that without even knowing it making the argument now that talent doesn't matter as much because they know we'll have better coaching.

That said, I DO think Monty can make a solid difference because I jumped ship on Igor pretty early. That team, as young as it was, was too talented to be worse than the previous year and not only worse, but get blown the hell out in a bunch of games.

I never said coaching was not an issue. What I said is I did not think making a change 5 years in a row was a good idea regardless of how bad a coach he was.

Also I assumed we would get another subpar coach as his replacement.

But I now think I was wrong about that. Reason being it has since come out players really did have problems communicating with him, and it is now obvious how far superior Monty is in terms of leadership, and the respect the players have shown him since he has arrived.

 

[Phrazbit]

Blocked shots are not a very meaningful stat to determine defensive ability. Team blocked shots are virtually useless as a defensive measure, the Pacers gave up the fewest points in the league and were in the bottom 3rd in blocks.

Ayton has great lateral movement but has little experience as a post defender. He showed spurts last year of amazing defense, and not just in isolated plays, he took over the Bucks game on the defensive end. I don't know if he will be a great defender but I see no reason that he can't be a solid one.

I don't think we'll be a good defensive team, Booker will probably never be a plus defender, or PF mix are both poor defensively, but I think we will be much improved with Ayton getting more experience and with guys like Rubio, Bridges, Oubre and Baynes getting heavy minutes. Jevon Carter potentially too if his poor offensive play doesn't keep him off the court, but I saw he shot lights out from 3 after the all-star break last year after being putrid before that, so there is some hope.

 

[Phrazbit]

Also, we're bringing back 5 guys total from last year's team, 2 of those 5 guys were traded for and played in a combined 53 games, another 2 of those 5 were rookies.

The team is going to be radically different. Any team/rotation based stats from last season are rather useless to project onto the coming one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hmm haven’t seen a single poster say “never” in regards to his shotblocking potential.

I think this is the post he was referring to

Horford is a good team defender but not a rim protector. I think that's the most we can hope for from Ayton. Ayton isn't going to be a great shot blocker, or even a good one, but I think he showed later in the year when he was put on Lebron or Giannis that he could play some solid D on them. If Monty can install a good defensive scheme for the team, with Ayton picking guys up at a certain point then I think he could work well in the team defense scenario also.

That was also a knock on Horford and the Celtics for his time there, they didn't have any real rim protection. Their rim protection was keeping guys from the rim. Horford did not defend like your typical Center. I concede Horford is a better defender than Ayton is now but he's also a 12 year vet or something. He's been in the league a long time and has learned a lot of tricks that Ayton will with time.

My main point was how Boston played good D without a rim protector and Horford involved or not, they didn't have one and that's probably how we'll look next season unless Ayton spends the entire summer picking Mutombo's brain and applying all he learned.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Deandre Ayton is a horrible defender. Like downright bad in most ways.

Advanced Stats:

• He was the 3rd worst center in the NBA for total defensive rating. Alex Len & Robin Lopez were 1 &2. LOL
• 5th worst in block percentage.
• Bottom 8 in blocks per 48.
• Bottom 9 in blocks per PF.
• Middle of the pack (22nd) in blocks per game.

Beyond the stats, he has never fully grasped help defense in a way that could ever make anyone be able to project him into the top half of NBA Centers. With his physical tools, he does get in the way sometimes, but it almost seems more by coincidence than actual design.

He was very bad in College. And was very bad his rookie year. This is really not debatable.

This is like trying to fix a Quarterbacks accuracy. Sure you can jiggle around with footwork, but some stuff is just innate and god give. Deandre Ayton DOES...... NOT...... HAVE....... IT.

Defensive rating is a very flawed stat IMO. We won't get into that here. The rest of your stats are about shot-blocking entirely. Historically shot-blocking is only one defensive stat, and sometimes can be an indicator of a bad defensive player (willing to gamble for blocks rather than play good position defense or rebound) rather than a good one. By the way, rebounding might be one of the most important defensive stat.

 

[JCSunsfan]

my biggest reason for worry about Ayton being a low-post defender or shot-blocker is he just doesn't seem to have natural instincts for that kind of play. coaching can definitely help, but there's an apparent lack of those instincts you either have or don't that I fear will limit him.

on the perimeter, he's got GREAT potential though. We saw that in pretty big one game spurts against LeBron and Giannis and I think he WILL even get better there. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone we can put next to him to cover for the other deficiencies.

Maybe his most effective future is as a pf. If he can stretch his shooting out to the three point line, everything else is there.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I also find it curious that so many people are now saying "coaching is going to make a huge difference" considering before Igor got the axe, the overwhelming majority of the board said coaching wasn't the issue, but talent was. Lot of people have done a big 180 on that without even knowing it making the argument now that talent doesn't matter as much because they know we'll have better coaching.

That said, I DO think Monty can make a solid difference because I jumped ship on Igor pretty early. That team, as young as it was, was too talented to be worse than the previous year and not only worse, but get blown the hell out in a bunch of games.

I am not sure this assessment of the board is correct. It is certainly correct in defining me--I was an Igor defender. But I felt pretty much alone in that role.

 

[Carolinacacti]

You know what helps defenses? When the other team goes cold from deep. This is a scoring league and you better be able to score