Suns @ Rockets game thread 1-28-18

[GatorAZ]

Absolutely.

The Kurt Thomas trade was one of the worst trades in NBA history.

Also some others like trading Shawn Marion.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/221482-how-steve-kerr-ruined-the-phoenix-suns

The KT trade was to get them under the luxury tax. Really had nothing to do with the GM. Sarver cut out the middle man and called Presti himself I'm guessing.

The Shaq trade was made because Shawn was butthurt about the accolades Steve and Amare were getting. D'Antoni wanted him out and Kerr's biggest mistake was listening to him. I'm guessing Kerr thought they needed beef to deal with Gasol/Bynum. If only he knew Bynum would've gone down that year. The Suns would've made the Finals with Marion and lost to Boston. Are my years right?

 

[elindholm]

scott bordow
@sbordow

Booker has made 52 straight free throws. Single-season record is 57

Held by ... Mike Bratz. I knew that off the top of my head!

 

[JustWinBaby]

If this team sucks royally by the end of the season, can everyone be in agreement that it’s time for a new GM to decide our fate, especially with a likely very high pick in a STACKED draft and another Head Coach decision to be made.

You don’t get to pick two head coaches, draft in the lottery for what... six straight years, whiffed in every FA period while getting molested in most trades and keep your job.

Not to mention making the Suns FO look REALLY bad by airing dirty laubdry repeatedly.

Is there anyone who can argue why McD should get to pick a third head coach and make a huge pick in the offseason?

I agree totally. It is amazing how McDonough still has a job. He is the problem. I feel sorry for Triano because I think he is a really good coach and have no problem with him being our coach next year.

If McD is allowed to make decisions on this roster this off season, Sarver is absolutely the worst owner in NBA history.

Whoops - I think Sarver already has been awarded that honor.

 

[Mainstreet]

The KT trade was to get them under the luxury tax. Really had nothing to do with the GM. Sarver cut out the middle man and called Presti himself I'm guessing.

The Shaq trade was made because Shawn was butthurt about the accolades Steve and Amare were getting. D'Antoni wanted him out and Kerr's biggest mistake was listening to him. I'm guessing Kerr thought they needed beef to deal with Gasol/Bynum. If only he knew Bynum would've gone down that year. The Suns would've made the Finals with Marion and lost to Boston. Are my years right?

Unfortunately it doesn't help to keep going through it.

GMs Mike D'Antoni, Steve Kerr, Lance Blanks doesn't help much for the sake of comparison with Ryan McDonough.

 

[Superbone]

Rockets are giving 14 points if you want to lay some money down. Has to be one of the highest point spreads you'll get. Myself, I wouldn't take 25 points. Suns should sit Booker and give him a rest.

You should have taken it.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I will say this about Ryan McDonough. The Suns sure do have a lot of assets this year. The draft is full of youngsters and Bender, Chriss might pan out. Jackson at Number for was a bad pick in my mind. You have to go scorer in this league with top picks.

 

[hsandhu]

God this is ugly. They need to blow this up this offseason clearly we missed on Chriss and Bender

I really really wanted Josh Jackson but my god man he's horrible can you honestly say you wouldn't rather have Lauri

I m reading this thread just now, Jackson has been very good in January, was making the progress everyone was calling for and now he is horrible because he has a terrible game?

You on with skip bayless tomorrow serving up knee jerk hot takes like that?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd be a lot more interested in getting rid of McD if I had any confidence in Sarver hiring someone better.

Look at our record with him and where we are after five years. You literally couldn’t any worse. Just as bad? Sure, but at least there would be hope for a couple months before we realized it.

 

[SirStefan32]

Looking at the record is way too simplistic. Sonics/ Thunder won 31 games before they blew it up, then they won 20, and then 23 games. The very next season they won 50 games. Now, I am NOT comparing the Suns to the Thunder, but it shows how deceiving a team's record can be.
Obviously, Booker and Warren are not KD, Westbrook, and Harden. I am fairly sure the Suns will not win 50 games next year, even with a #1 pick.

McD's picks have been reasonable. In 2013, Len was a reasonable pick. Noel and MCLemore are not any better, and if my memory is not failing me, those were the only other reasonable candidates at that slot. Sure, Giannis was available, and McD did pass on him. So did 13 other teams. Adams was there, McCollom was there, but a lot of teams passed on them too. in 2014, he nailed it with Warren. Bogdanovic was a solid pick too. He missed the mark on Ennis. Sure, there was Jokic, but everyone passed on him in the first round. He nailed it in 2015 with Booker. 2016, he made reasonable picks. Bender and Chriss were considered to be good prospects. Sure, I'd rather have Murrey, Sabonis, and/ or Heild than Bender and Chriss, but a lot of teams passed on those guys too. Jackson was a perfectly reasonable pick in 2017.

Bender, Chriss, and Jackson don't look great right now, but it's way too early to write them off. We've seen flashes from each one of those guys, so I am not ready to write them off. Jackson has confidence, Bender is already a decent 3 and D player, and Chriss actually had a very good rookie season.

I am not a fan of his trades, or the debacle that was Dragic/Bledsoe/ IT, or doubling down and taking Knight and wasting the Lakers pick (Imagine NOT having Knight, and having another mid-to late lottery pick this year!) I am not a fan of his coaching hires either. All that said, he is hardly a terrible GM, at least comparatively.

 

[leclerc]

My hand is on the blow up button. I'm about to start pounding the tank button. I'm just afraid of what that will do for morale of team/kids and especially Booker. Need to draft and develop better. That's for sure.

 

[Mainstreet]

Looking at the record is way too simplistic. Sonics/ Thunder won 31 games before they blew it up, then they won 20, and then 23 games. The very next season they won 50 games. Now, I am NOT comparing the Suns to the Thunder, but it shows how deceiving a team's record can be.
Obviously, Booker and Warren are not KD, Westbrook, and Harden. I am fairly sure the Suns will not win 50 games next year, even with a #1 pick.

McD's picks have been reasonable. In 2013, Len was a reasonable pick. Noel and MCLemore are not any better, and if my memory is not failing me, those were the only other reasonable candidates at that slot. Sure, Giannis was available, and McD did pass on him. So did 13 other teams. Adams was there, McCollom was there, but a lot of teams passed on them too. in 2014, he nailed it with Warren. Bogdanovic was a solid pick too. He missed the mark on Ennis. Sure, there was Jokic, but everyone passed on him in the first round. He nailed it in 2015 with Booker. 2016, he made reasonable picks. Bender and Chriss were considered to be good prospects. Sure, I'd rather have Murrey, Sabonis, and/ or Heild than Bender and Chriss, but a lot of teams passed on those guys too. Jackson was a perfectly reasonable pick in 2017.

Bender, Chriss, and Jackson don't look great right now, but it's way too early to write them off. We've seen flashes from each one of those guys, so I am not ready to write them off. Jackson has confidence, Bender is already a decent 3 and D player, and Chriss actually had a very good rookie season.

I am not a fan of his trades, or the debacle that was Dragic/Bledsoe/ IT, or doubling down and taking Knight and wasting the Lakers pick (Imagine NOT having Knight, and having another mid-to late lottery pick this year!) I am not a fan of his coaching hires either. All that said, he is hardly a terrible GM, at least comparatively.

Well said. It is easy to second guess. The Knight trade is the biggest negative as I view it.

 

[Chaplin]

The KT trade was to get them under the luxury tax. Really had nothing to do with the GM. Sarver cut out the middle man and called Presti himself I'm guessing.

The Shaq trade was made because Shawn was butthurt about the accolades Steve and Amare were getting. D'Antoni wanted him out and Kerr's biggest mistake was listening to him. I'm guessing Kerr thought they needed beef to deal with Gasol/Bynum. If only he knew Bynum would've gone down that year. The Suns would've made the Finals with Marion and lost to Boston. Are my years right?

How many times does Kerr himself have to say he’s to blame for the KT trade before you actually believe it?

That said, I think the best way I can sum up my feelings about keeping McD is just to say “indifferent.” Leaning somewhat on the fire him side but pretty close to the middle.

 

[GatorAZ]

How many times does Kerr himself have to say he’s to blame for the KT trade before you actually believe it?

That said, I think the best way I can sum up my feelings about keeping McD is just to say “indifferent.” Leaning somewhat on the fire him side but pretty close to the middle.

What he says is irrelevant. Anyone with common sense realizes that trade had nothing to do with on-court impact. It was made to save the franchise money.

 

[Chaplin]

What he says is irrelevant. Anyone with common sense realizes that trade had nothing to do with on-court impact. It was made to save the franchise money.

Of course because some armchair fan has more knowledge than the guy directly involved.

 

[GatorAZ]

Of course because some armchair fan has more knowledge than the guy directly involved.

The fact you think that was a basketball move by a GM and a not a money saving move by the owner is baffling. He was selling picks before Kerr got there and his history of overrding GM's is well documented. What's the common denominator here?

 

[Mainstreet]

The fact you think that was a basketball move by a GM and a not a money saving move by the owner is baffling. He was selling picks before Kerr got there and his history of overrding GM's is well documented. What's the common denominator here?

If the objective was Kerr saving money, he should have traded KT for a first round pick.

Kerr made a horrible trade... no way around that.

The Sonics in turn traded KT to the Spurs for a first round pick.

 

[GatorAZ]

If the objective was Kerr saving money, he should have traded KT for a first round pick.

Kerr made a horrible trade... no way around that.

The Sonics in turn traded KT to the Spurs for a first round pick.

Saying Kerr made that trade is like saying Lance Blanks signed Goran Dragic. Again, the cost cutting moves were happening before and after Steve Kerr.

 

[Mainstreet]

Saying Kerr made that trade is like saying Lance Blanks signed Goran Dragic. Again, the cost cutting moves were happening before and after Steve Kerr.

The point is, Kerr could have traded KT for assets.

Instead, Kerr almost literally gifted KT to the Sonics along with two first round picks.

In other words, KT had a plus value... not a negative value.

This is from Steve Kerr:

"There are so many trades made these days that are lousy trades that are made for financial purposes. I mean, I made (when he was Suns President) one of the worst trades in NBA history. I traded Kurt Thomas and two first-round picks to Seattle for nothing, to save $16 million for our organization. Where was the NBA then to veto that trade for basketball reasons?”

I'm not sure why you are locked into defending Kerr on this one. Sarver may have wanted to save money but Kerr clearly made a bad trade.

Kerr was a rookie GM at the time.

http://newsok.com/article/3785360

 

[Chaplin]

The fact you think that was a basketball move by a GM and a not a money saving move by the owner is baffling. He was selling picks before Kerr got there and his history of overrding GM's is well documented. What's the common denominator here?

We must be on completely different wavelengths here. Can you quote where I said it was a basketball move?

 

[Chaplin]

Saying Kerr made that trade is like saying Lance Blanks signed Goran Dragic. Again, the cost cutting moves were happening before and after Steve Kerr.

What a false equivalency! It's nothing like that, and they are completely different situations. Blanks hasn't gone on record taking all the credit for signing Goran Dragic, has he? Yet Kerr has taken credit for the KT trade. I have no doubt Sarver signed off on it, so there is blame there, but to absolve Kerr is ridiculous.

 

[elindholm]

The fact you think that was a basketball move by a GM and a not a money saving move by the owner is baffling.

Of course it was a cost-saving move, but even within that parameter, Kerr could have done a lot better. Kerr's mandate was "cut salary," not "give away a quality big man and a bunch of draft picks for nothing."

 

[GatorAZ]

The point is, Kerr could have traded KT for assets.

Instead, Kerr almost literally gifted KT to the Sonics along with two first round picks.

In other words, KT had a plus value... not a negative value.

This is from Steve Kerr:



I'm not sure why you are locked into defending Kerr on this one. Sarver may have wanted to save money but Kerr clearly made a bad trade.

Kerr was a rookie GM at the time.

http://newsok.com/article/3785360

I've definitely ripped him for some of his moves like the Porter hire which was a 100% basketball move and falls completely on him. I'm not taking anything from interviews given his self-deprecating personality. I would be interested to hear about it from him off the record.

 

[GatorAZ]

Of course it was a cost-saving move, but even within that parameter, Kerr could have done a lot better. Kerr's mandate was "cut salary," not "give away a quality big man and a bunch of draft picks for nothing."

Another reason it doesn't add up. A guy who ripped the Suns defense as an analyst and gave D'Antoni an ultimatum to hire a defensive assistant gives away KT. We can agree to disagree but that had ownership written all over it given the circumstances and Sarver's track record of dumping draft picks.