Suns @ Rockets Wednesday game thread 2-12-2024

[Superbone]

The answer certainly wasn't trading for Kevin Durant and depleting the team's assets.

We don't know what would have happened if the Suns hadn't gone chasing for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

That was the huge mistake domino that got us to where we are today. Then Beal. Then Camara. Checkmate. (Sorry, mixing my games. )

 

[leclerc]

I agree it was a mistake to trade for Durant, but Isbah wanted to make a splash and show he has cachungas so this is where we are at. Now they need to find a way out of it. That is interesting in its own way. We're not competing, that much is certain.

 

[Chaplin]

We tend to forget how Paul took over games when needed.

Nobody forgets that at all. But he didn't take over games when we needed him to in the playoffs, and it's one of the major reasons for or lack of success.

 

[Yuma]

I still think the Durant trade, while an overpay, was OK. Now you had two top scorers on one team. Durant even brings some situational defense down the stretch when you can play him as a weak side shot blocker. The next two trades are where we went too far. The CP3/Beal trade is the fatal one that has us where we have no flexibility from BOTH being over the second apron and dealing with Beal's NTC. Then the Ayton for Nurkic trade cooked the goose further. We took any defensive chance we had, after we hired a coach eager to turn Ayton around, and made the trade. We just kept reducing the playable pieces around KD and Book instead of adding to them.

It's basic science, you have a formula, you change one part of it and see what happens. If you change multiple parts of the formula, how do you know what is and isn't working? We just kept changing parts so much without incrementally seeing what did and did not work. Now we have a smaller and slower team than the rest of our competitors.

I honestly don't think we can rebuild until Beal's contract comes off the books. This offseason we can get under the second apron, an possibly the first briefly, which would allow us to make a trade for maybe a decent center or PF. We will be stuck working around the edges of this until we run out of the Beal contract. Just watched a Sports Illustrated NBA person who says KD doesn't fit Houston's timeline and they are only interested in Booker. I don't think we are moving off KD. There's no suitors that can give us a return we want that KD will play for. This is going to last a couple more seasons, I think.

 

[Mainstreet]

That was the huge mistake domino that got us to where we are today. Then Beal. Then Camara. Checkmate. (Sorry, mixing my games. )

If one wants to look at it that way, the calendar year of 2023 for the Suns was dark indeed if one revisits the trades involving Durant, Beal and Ayton.

 

[CardNots]

Nobody forgets that at all. But he didn't take over games when we needed him to in the playoffs, and it's one of the major reasons for or lack of success.

Injuries impacted his playoff runs

 

[GatorAZ]

I still think the Durant trade, while an overpay, was OK. Now you had two top scorers on one team. Durant even brings some situational defense down the stretch when you can play him as a weak side shot blocker. The next two trades are where we went too far. The CP3/Beal trade is the fatal one that has us where we have no flexibility from BOTH being over the second apron and dealing with Beal's NTC. Then the Ayton for Nurkic trade cooked the goose further. We took any defensive chance we had, after we hired a coach eager to turn Ayton around, and made the trade. We just kept reducing the playable pieces around KD and Book instead of adding to them.

It's basic science, you have a formula, you change one part of it and see what happens. If you change multiple parts of the formula, how do you know what is and isn't working? We just kept changing parts so much without incrementally seeing what did and did not work. Now we have a smaller and slower team than the rest of our competitors.

I honestly don't think we can rebuild until Beal's contract comes off the books. This offseason we can get under the second apron, a possibly the first briefly, which would allow us to make a trade for maybe a decent center or PF. We will be stuck working around the edges of this until we run out of the Beal contract. Just watched a Sports Illustrated NBA person who says KD doesn't fit Houston's timeline and they are only interested in Booker. I don't think we are moving off KD. There's no suitors that can give us a return we want that KD will play for. This is going to last a couple more seasons, I think.

.
They needed to keep Cam J or a couple picks out of the package. If push came to shove I think Brooklyn still pulls the trigger if it’s just Mikal, Crowder and another filler plus the picks. If you remember how bad our wings were vs Denver that series you can’t convince me Cam Johnson wouldn’t made at least a moderate difference.

 

[CardNots]

I still think the Durant trade, while an overpay, was OK. Now you had two top scorers on one team. Durant even brings some situational defense down the stretch when you can play him as a weak side shot blocker. The next two trades are where we went too far. The CP3/Beal trade is the fatal one that has us where we have no flexibility from BOTH being over the second apron and dealing with Beal's NTC. Then the Ayton for Nurkic trade cooked the goose further. We took any defensive chance we had, after we hired a coach eager to turn Ayton around, and made the trade. We just kept reducing the playable pieces around KD and Book instead of adding to them.

It's basic science, you have a formula, you change one part of it and see what happens. If you change multiple parts of the formula, how do you know what is and isn't working? We just kept changing parts so much without incrementally seeing what did and did not work. Now we have a smaller and slower team than the rest of our competitors.

I honestly don't think we can rebuild until Beal's contract comes off the books. This offseason we can get under the second apron, an possibly the first briefly, which would allow us to make a trade for maybe a decent center or PF. We will be stuck working around the edges of this until we run out of the Beal contract. Just watched a Sports Illustrated NBA person who says KD doesn't fit Houston's timeline and they are only interested in Booker. I don't think we are moving off KD. There's no suitors that can give us a return we want that KD will play for. This is going to last a couple more seasons, I think.

I didn’t have an issue with the Durant trade at all.

Where i was off is i really thought booker would excel to another level with Durant onboard…

 

[Hoop Head]

Nobody forgets that at all. But he didn't take over games when we needed him to in the playoffs, and it's one of the major reasons for or lack of success.

But he did. He was amazing vs the Pelicans in 2022. He was too old to do it regularly and it's rumored he, and half the team, got Covid coming out of the Pelicans series. Then the Suns collapsed vs the Mavericks.

Saying Paul didn't take over games in the playoff is ignoring history. He did. Was that always enough? No. That's why we don't have any titles.

 

[SirStefan32]

Paul forgot how to play basketball after that one birthday. He was great, and then he was awful. I have never seen a player drop off that quickly.

 

[Carolinacacti]

What people tend to forget, the Suns were loaded when they made the trade for Durant. The Suns were ready to take the next step but went out chasing an aging star with a history of injury.

The Suns had Booker, Bridges, Johnson, Ayton to name a few, plus all their draft picks and expiring contracts. They were primed to add to that team, but instead went for flash over substance and squandered their assets for years to come.

Loaded is not the word I'd use. Maybe the Suns would be the team to beat, probably not. All I will say is if I had to pick a player to keep next year it would be Durant even with his age

 

[Covert Rain]

Loaded is not the word I'd use. Maybe the Suns would be the team to beat, probably not. All I will say is if I had to pick a player to keep next year it would be Durant even with his age

I think what people tend to forget how that team had a historic choke in the finals and continued to regress. That group wasn't going anywhere. Maybe going after Durant and then that awful Beal trade wasn’t the answer but sticking with that group wasn’t either.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I don't fault the Suns for taking a shot at KD, but the price was pretty steep; that was the real problem. Reminded me of the Melo to NYK trade where it just gutted the depth of the team unnecessarily.

 

[BirdGangThing]

we still can't let the kd/twins/picks trade (myself included) go and i don't see any end in sight - makes me think about the luka trade and how i do not envy mavs fans - maaaaaaaaaan

they're going to be "talking" about it for YEARS

 

[Superbone]

we still can't let the kd/twins/picks trade (myself included) go and i don't see any end in sight - makes me think about the luka trade and how i do not envy mavs fans - maaaaaaaaaan

they're going to be "talking" about it for YEARS

Probably the rest of their lives.

 

[Mainstreet]

Loaded is not the word I'd use. Maybe the Suns would be the team to beat, probably not. All I will say is if I had to pick a player to keep next year it would be Durant even with his age

I think what people tend to forget how that team had a historic choke in the finals and continued to regress. That group want going anywhere. Maybe going after Durant and then that awful Beal trade wasn’t the answer but sticking with that group wasn’t either.

I think one needs to look no further, who were the players on the Finals team and who won 64 games the following season. Yes, the Suns didn't win it all but look where they are now. Durant certainly wasn't on those teams.

Now, look at the Suns record after the addition of Durant. The Suns overpaid for him, plain and simple.

Instead of blowing up the 2022-23 team, the Suns would have been much better off building around Booker, Bridges and Cam Johnson with draft picks and expiring contracts. Even the Ayton trade was dismal.

Tell me again, how much better off the Suns are after the trade for Durant?

Never mind, I already know.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Two shooting guards and a heavy small forward. This coming from the Main man that' wants bigs

 

[Yuma]

I didn’t have an issue with the Durant trade at all.

Where i was off is i really thought booker would excel to another level with Durant onboard…

Booker has evolved, but not in the way I thought. I thought he would be a better scorer learning from KD. Instead he is setting the table more, and his assist game has evolved. There's way more Point Book than I expected.

 

[Yuma]

I think one needs to look no further, who were the players on the Finals team and who won 64 games the following season. Yes, the Suns didn't win it all but look where they are now. Durant certainly wasn't on those teams.

Now, look at the Suns record after the addition of Durant. The Suns overpaid for him, plain and simple.

Instead of blowing up the 2022-23 team, the Suns would have been much better off building around Booker, Bridges and Cam Johnson with draft picks and expiring contracts. Even the Ayton trade was dismal.

Tell me again, how much better off the Suns are after the trade for Durant?

Never mind, I already know.

Our owner took a big swing and it didn't work. I'd still rather have Ishbia than Sarver. I'd rather have the guy who is willing to take the swings, rather than the guy who is afraid to pay anyone a second contract. I still think the Suns are better off going forward than they were. At the end of the day, if everyone leaves, we have no assets, if we get under the aprons, our owner can literally buy players on the free agency market.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think one needs to look no further, who were the players on the Finals team and who won 64 games the following season. Yes, the Suns didn't win it all but look where they are now. Durant certainly wasn't on those teams.

Now, look at the Suns record after the addition of Durant. The Suns overpaid for him, plain and simple.

Instead of blowing up the 2022-23 team, the Suns would have been much better off building around Booker, Bridges and Cam Johnson with draft picks and expiring contracts. Even the Ayton trade was dismal.

Tell me again, how much better off the Suns are after the trade for Durant?

Never mind, I already know.

Who cares about the following regular season? It didn't help in the playoffs and the same weak mentality followed them into that playoffs. Regular season does nothing other than helps your seeding. The playoffs persona of your team is the only thing that matters. The Suns were going nowhere as built and they regressed since the finals choke in the playoffs.

Again, maybe the Durant trade followed by that awful Beal trade wasn't the right move. Personally, I think if we had made a different trade than getting Beal this team had a legit shot. The Beal trade was just beyond baffling considering it created redundancy and then you had 3 players in the starting lineup that need the ball to be effective. Then factor in that contract. It was dumb all the way around.

Who cares if the team is "better off". If "better off" doesn't translate in the playoffs or with a title it's still a failure. You can evaluate each trade in a bubble but in the bigger picture changes had to happen.

 

[Yuma]

Who cares about the following regular season? It didn't help in the playoffs and the same weak mentality followed them into that playoffs. Regular season does nothing other than helps your seeding. The playoffs persona of your team is the only thing that matters. The Suns were going nowhere as built and they regressed since the finals choke in the playoffs.

Again, maybe the Durant trade followed by that awful Beal trade wasn't the right move. Personally, I think if we had made a different trade than getting Beal this team had a legit shot. The Beal trade was just beyond baffling considering it created redundancy and then you had 3 players in the starting lineup that need the ball to be effective. Then factor in that contract. It was dumb all the way around.

You can evaluate each trade in a bubble but in the bigger picture changes had to happen.

We have no culture. Does anyone know what our team is known for? If I had to answer, honestly, it's a turn over machine that doesn't rebound.

 

[Chaplin]

We have no culture. Does anyone know what our team is known for? If I had to answer, honestly, it's a turn over machine that doesn't rebound.

So what exactly do you want? A team that doesn't turn the ball over has nothing to do with "culture". Everyone keeps complaining that we have no "culture", but nobody even tries to bring up what that word even means to them.

Their "culture" is fine. They simply aren't playing good basketball. Culture has nothing to do with it.

 

[Yuma]

So what exactly do you want? A team that doesn't turn the ball over has nothing to do with "culture". Everyone keeps complaining that we have no "culture", but nobody even tries to bring up what that word even means to them.

Their "culture" is fine. They simply aren't playing good basketball. Culture has nothing to do with it.

Here's what I mean. I follow the Chargers. They were a hot mess under their old coach. Harbaugh comes in, and every player says the culture has changed and they all bought into it. They went from five wins to eleven wins with the majority of the same players.

Some teams say they are a "running team," or "lock down defensive team." What do you ever hear the Suns say they are? A culture is an identity that guides the players as to the direction of their play.

 

[Superbone]

We have a culture. All offense and sloppy turnovers with no defense or rebounding. Unfortunately, it's a losing culture. We need a winning culture. How about value the ball and play hard on both ends? It's also about not having the right team makeup to see a winning culture through.

 

[Hoop Head]

So what exactly do you want? A team that doesn't turn the ball over has nothing to do with "culture". Everyone keeps complaining that we have no "culture", but nobody even tries to bring up what that word even means to them.

Their "culture" is fine. They simply aren't playing good basketball. Culture has nothing to do with it.

So what is the Suns culture then? You say it's fine so elaborate on what their culture is, please.