Suns sell the NAZ Suns

[Mainstreet]

LOL, not it's not.

And again, it's not like we're cut off from taking advantage of the G-League! Don't be ridiculous and alarmist.

Let's try the facts. The Suns will join the Nuggets and Trail Blazers as the only NBA teams that do not own and operate a G-League team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Let's try the facts. The Suns will join the Nuggets and Trail Blazers as the only NBA teams that do not own and operate a G-League team.

Speaks volumes. If we see others follow in fashion that will likely speak to perceived value.

 

[Chaplin]

Let's try the facts. The Suns will join the Nuggets and Trail Blazers as the only NBA teams that do not own and operate a G-League team.

Ok. And?

Denver has done really really well without it. They don't do it a lot, but since 2006 they've made 34 assignments to around 12 different G-League affiliates.

 

[BC867]

He didn't say the G-League is "not important" -- what a gross over-generalization of what James Jones said.

He said: On Wednesday, general manager James Jones said in a statement that the NBA team’s “ownership and management of the Northern Arizona Suns does not align with the Phoenix Suns’ strategic plan for player development over the next three-to-five years.”

Think about it -- has NAZ aligned with anything the Suns have done in the past 20 years? Anything at all? We are developing players on the main roster already. And we've seen how it's worked out with G-Leaguers who have inflated stats and STILL do nothing at the NBA level.

We've actually talked about it on here. It's the classic, "...but it's the G-League." That is correct. It is the G-League and while I like the idea of a minor league system, it hasn't really worked at all for the Suns.

I have to ask, whose fault is that? Could it be the turnover and inexperience of Suns General Managers? Or dictatorial management of Robert Sarver?

 

[Hoop Head]

I have to ask, whose fault is that? Could it be the turnover and inexperience of Suns General Managers? Or dictatorial management of Robert Sarver?

Or that it's just the G-League and isn't nearly as valuable as some think? Name one team that has used their affiliate to add and develop NBA ready talent regularly.

Another thing to note is the NAZ Suns were without a home for this coming season. That could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. If you don't see the value in something anyways why invest in finding them a new arena to play in when someone else is ready to pay to take them off your hands? G-League teams aren't profitable now and are likely to lose a lot more money in the near future with the larger contracts being given out to them.

The G-League also created their own players union this offseason and all players will see an increase in pay, not just those young players looking for a path to the NBA that bypasses the NCAA.

So while money is likely a factor, I don't think this is some "cheap" move made strictly to put more money in the owners pockets. It was money being spent inefficiently up until the sale so I can't fault them for not wanting to continue to do so. If they simply closed up shop altogether rather than selling it than I might judge the move more harshly but as it is, it's cutting a bad investment.

 

[Hoop Head]

The focus of most NBA teams is having G-League teams.

With young players choosing to forgo college it becomes even more important. I simply think the Suns are ignoring a tremendous opportunity to develop players in a minor league system especially with the influx of players that will choose the G-League over college.

Players going straight to the G-League doesn't change their availability to the Suns though. Signing with the G-League doesn't assign them to a certain franchise or give a certain team rights to them at the NBA level. The Suns can still draft those players as they have to enter the league just like other amateur prospects.

 

[Mainstreet]

Players going straight to the G-League doesn't change their availability to the Suns though. Signing with the G-League doesn't assign them to a certain franchise or give a certain team rights to them at the NBA level. The Suns can still draft those players as they have to enter the league just like other amateur prospects.

It's the idea of developing and coaching players to fit the Suns system, giving them playing experience and sometimes shuttling them back and forth between the big club and the G-League.

Some players in the G-League have exclusive rights held by the big club such as players on two-way contracts and players that are under NBA contracts assigned to the G-League.

 

[Chaplin]

I have to ask, whose fault is that? Could it be the turnover and inexperience of Suns General Managers? Or dictatorial management of Robert Sarver?

Maybe the G-League is full of non-NBA-caliber players?

Or are you seriously advocating that the rest of the NBA, because they have G-League teams, are higher caliber? Because that would be a ridiculous stretch, even for you.

Hoop Head mentions a crucial point about the new players union. The writing is on the wall -- the G-League is going to be more costly to operate because of that. And if we are breaking even or losing money in its current form, how much worse is it going to get?

This isn't rocket science here.

 

[Chaplin]

It's the idea of developing and coaching players to fit the Suns system, giving them playing experience and sometimes shuttling them back and forth between the big club and the G-League.

Except that is NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING. The NAZ Suns weren't "developing and coaching players to fit the Suns system" because none of them ever came up to the Suns. Now the argument you appear to be making is that you are concerned that if we send players like Ty Jerome to the G-League, we'll have nowhere to send them, then you are incorrect there as well. Of course we'll send them to the G-League, same with 2-ways, just not a team we control. Who cares? Ty Jerome had good stats the few times he was up in the G-League. Did it help? Nope. He was only there for 3 games. What's the point?

 

[Folster]

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[Hoop Head]

It's the idea of developing and coaching players to fit the Suns system, giving them playing experience and sometimes shuttling them back and forth between the big club and the G-League.

Some players in the G-League have exclusive rights held by the big club such as players on two-way contracts and players that are under NBA contracts assigned to the G-League.

None of the players the Suns held rights to that played for their G-League team ever panned out so I'm not too concerned with losing that. As Chap has said, the Suns can still sign Two-Way players. They'll go to a different team, which is fine. With all of the turnover on the main roster it's not like there was a Suns system to instill in the youngsters in the G-League anyways. The Suns have had how many head coaches over the years? By the time someone got a system in place they were shown the door. Now we all want Monty to stick around and it appears that is where the primary focus will be, on the main roster, which is good news. Until we can build a solid NBA team, why bother building a minor league team that isn't profitable?

 

[Folster]

This is a cost cutting move likely due to expected huge losses in revenue. Whether it will affect the organization's success is doubtful, but that remains to be seen. The G league has aspirations of being a true minor league to the NBA, but that has yet to be realized and there is not guarantee it will.

 

[Mainstreet]

None of the players the Suns held rights to that played for their G-League team ever panned out so I'm not too concerned with losing that. As Chap has said, the Suns can still sign Two-Way players. They'll go to a different team, which is fine. With all of the turnover on the main roster it's not like there was a Suns system to instill in the youngsters in the G-League anyways. The Suns have had how many head coaches over the years? By the time someone got a system in place they were shown the door. Now we all want Monty to stick around and it appears that is where the primary focus will be, on the main roster, which is good news. Until we can build a solid NBA team, why bother building a minor league team that isn't profitable?

Because the Suns are not doing it right is not an excuse for not doing it. It's an argument for remaining bad or mediocrity.

If the Suns did it right they could have (2) two-way players in the G-League and (3) other players being actively developed there. A team only has 12 active players a game. These are players controlled directly by the Suns.

And of course it does not include other players signed to their G-League team which might turn into diamonds in the rough especially with the soon to be influx of more college players.

Also let's not forget coaching and teaching the players the Suns style of play in the G-League.

Luguentz Dort was on a two-way contract with the Thunder and I'm sure there are plenty more players than came up this way.

One of the Suns biggest problems is scouting and the commitment to run it like a competent franchise.

 

[Hoop Head]

Because the Suns are not doing it right is not an excuse for not doing it. It's an argument for remaining bad or mediocrity.

If the Suns did it right they could have (2) two-way players in the G-League and (3) other players being actively developed there. A team only has 12 active players a game. These are players controlled directly by the Suns.

They can still have those players assigned to a G-League team, it just won't be one they own. The Nuggets and Blazers still have the ability to send players up and down and also have the ability to sign Two-Way players despite not owning a G-League team. The Suns will be in the same position as them. They'll find a G-League affiliate to come to terms with that they'll send players to, and they can actually come to terms with a few different G-League teams. So they aren't missing out on anything from a development aspect except complete control of the G-League team. So they can't install their own head coach and general manager and filling out of the rest of that roster.

And of course it does not include other players signed to their G-League team which might turn into diamonds in the rough especially with the soon to be influx of more college players.

They'll still be able to scout G-League games and sign players from there, nothing is stopping that.

Also let's not forget coaching and teaching the players the Suns style of play in the G-League.

And who was teaching them before? Again, with the turnover of the main roster staff, who instilled the system in the G-League team? Either a player can play or they can't, Monty's system isn't so unique that it'll take a lot of time for players to learn. If we ran D'Antoni's system then I'd be more in favor of a G-League affiliate to prepare our young players for the main roster but that shouldn't be an issue now as the system isn't really complex.

Coaches can be sent with players also, which isn't often discussed. So we can send a coach with a player who goes down to make sure they're learning what we want. I suspect this will happen more now that the main organization isn't the one hiring personnel for the G-League squad.

Luguentz Dort was on a two-way contract with the Thunder and I'm sure there are plenty more players than came up this way.

And the Suns can get players like that still, as stated above.

One of the Suns biggest problems is scouting and the commitment to run it like a competent franchise.

And they ran their G-League team poorly also. The G-League squad was last in the league last season with an 8-34 record. So they didn't know how to run a minor league squad either, it wasn't a priority and it won't even be a line item next year, which is fine. They really aren't losing as much as you think.

 

[Mainstreet]

They can still have those players assigned to a G-League team, it just won't be one they own. The Nuggets and Blazers still have the ability to send players up and down and also have the ability to sign Two-Way players despite not owning a G-League team. The Suns will be in the same position as them. They'll find a G-League affiliate to come to terms with that they'll send players to, and they can actually come to terms with a few different G-League teams. So they aren't missing out on anything from a development aspect except complete control of the G-League team. So they can't install their own head coach and general manager and filling out of the rest of that roster.



They'll still be able to scout G-League games and sign players from there, nothing is stopping that.



And who was teaching them before? Again, with the turnover of the main roster staff, who instilled the system in the G-League team? Either a player can play or they can't, Monty's system isn't so unique that it'll take a lot of time for players to learn. If we ran D'Antoni's system then I'd be more in favor of a G-League affiliate to prepare our young players for the main roster but that shouldn't be an issue now as the system isn't really complex.

Coaches can be sent with players also, which isn't often discussed. So we can send a coach with a player who goes down to make sure they're learning what we want. I suspect this will happen more now that the main organization isn't the one hiring personnel for the G-League squad.



And the Suns can get players like that still, as stated above.



And they ran their G-League team poorly also. The G-League squad was last in the league last season with an 8-34 record. So they didn't know how to run a minor league squad either, it wasn't a priority and it won't even be a line item next year, which is fine. They really aren't losing as much as you think.

It seems like your argument is based upon the incompetency of the Suns organization to run a minor league system. While it may be true it speaks to the inadequacy of the organization... not the system.

 

[Chaplin]

Because the Suns are not doing it right is not an excuse for not doing it. It's an argument for remaining bad or mediocrity.

If the Suns did it right they could have (2) two-way players in the G-League and (3) other players being actively developed there. A team only has 12 active players a game. These are players controlled directly by the Suns.

And of course it does not include other players signed to their G-League team which might turn into diamonds in the rough especially with the soon to be influx of more college players.

Also let's not forget coaching and teaching the players the Suns style of play in the G-League.

Luguentz Dort was on a two-way contract with the Thunder and I'm sure there are plenty more players than came up this way.

One of the Suns biggest problems is scouting and the commitment to run it like a competent franchise.

You're assuming again that the Suns aren't doing something "right". That's an opinion and likely an uninformed one as well.

And singling out one player (and being "sure" there's more) doesn't really help your argument as much as you think it does. The G-League still exists, we can still send players to it, and we can still sign players from it. What else do you want?

Main, I give you kudos for being truly dedicated to supporting end-of-the-bench players, but it seems like you are missing the big picture here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think it might turn out to be the right financial move considering the environment but I didn't like the rationalization/explanation. It's almost like they were saying we weren't benefitting from it because we weren't doing it right so instead of improving how we do things, we'll just abandon it. But let's be clear, if things ever return to normal, we'll likely be at a disadvantage if we don't start another minor league team.

 

[Yuma]

I heard that the Suns were selling their G-League team and I was worried it was the Suns themselves.

Are we sure it's NOT the Suns? They are a G-League team!

 

[Yuma]

I think it might turn out to be the right financial move considering the environment but I didn't like the rationalization/explanation. It's almost like they were saying we weren't benefitting from it because we weren't doing it right so instead of improving how we do things, we'll just abandon it. But let's be clear, if things ever return to normal, we'll likely be at a disadvantage if we don't start another minor league team.

With James Jones, he just doesn't see the value in it. The coyotes, they have the opposite view. They bring guys up all the time. Send rehab guys down, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it might turn out to be the right financial move considering the environment but I didn't like the rationalization/explanation. It's almost like they were saying we weren't benefitting from it because we weren't doing it right so instead of improving how we do things, we'll just abandon it. But let's be clear, if things ever return to normal, we'll likely be at a disadvantage if we don't start another minor league team.

We agree, I think it's about the money as well. If the Suns came right out and said it I would feel better. Some other teams may do the same. A lot of NBA teams are going to be hard pressed for revenue because of the coronavirus.

The Suns are so quiet as an organization it's hard to know how they view the future. It is concerning the Pistons are buying while the Suns are selling. I do believe a minor league team is the way to go with likely an increasing number of kids skipping college for pro basketball.

In times of economic crisis there are buyers and sellers. It looked like the Suns would be buyers with about $20 million on the books to spend in free agency. Now I'm not so sure. I'm hoping the Suns do not revert to the early Sarver days.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Suns will still be running the G-League team this year...

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The 2 other teams without G-League teams of their own are Denver and Portland. Denver in particular has done a really good job of developing young players over the last few years and proves that a G-League team isn't a necessity.

Like has been stated, trying to find a legit NBA player who came from the NAZ Suns is hard to do. The only person I can think of is Danuel House. Other than him I don't believe there is a player in the league who came from the Suns G-League affiliate.

I don't think most people here could name anyone on the Suns G-League team this last season that wasn't a Suns assignment or Two-Way player, myself included. I know I couldn't name a coach of the G-League team in the last 5 years, can anyone? I think that points towards how little the G-League matters.

Any idea who this "Rod Argent" guy is? I just ask because it's a semi-famous name to old time rock and roll fans. He was one of the two main guys in an under-appreciated 60's group called The Zombies and when they folded he started another group called Argent. They had one big hit called "Hold Your Head Up". Back in the 70's and 80's that song was frequently played in stadiums and arenas but I have no idea if that's true at all since then. Anyway, just curious if it's coincidence or intentional?

 

[Mainstreet]

Even Ryan McDonough makes jokes about the Suns.

https://arizonasports.com/story/233...donoughs-got-goat-jokes-in-his-twitter-debut/

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[AzStevenCal]

With James Jones, he just doesn't see the value in it. The coyotes, they have the opposite view. They bring guys up all the time. Send rehab guys down, etc.

I think he sees a lot of value in it but is saying that they can be more effective doing the same thing with the big club instead. IOW, the opposite of the reasoning that led to this league in the first place. And his justification seems to be that they weren't progressing there. All in all, I think it was a combination of money and the fact they weren't doing it well enough to get the return they were expecting.

 

[Hoop Head]

Any idea who this "Rod Argent" guy is? I just ask because it's a semi-famous name to old time rock and roll fans. He was one of the two main guys in an under-appreciated 60's group called The Zombies and when they folded he started another group called Argent. They had one big hit called "Hold Your Head Up". Back in the 70's and 80's that song was frequently played in stadiums and arenas but I have no idea if that's true at all since then. Anyway, just curious if it's coincidence or intentional?

He's a writer for BrightSideOfTheSun.com and a good follow on Twitter for Suns news. I doubt there is a link to the Zombies member.

 

[Hoop Head]

There are 2 rumors tied to this that I've seen in the Twitter-Verse,

1. This is a precursor to the Suns being sold. I think we all hope that is the case but I doubt it.

2. The other is how Mexico City is getting a G-League team in 2021-22. The Suns could very well attach themselves to that squad after letting the league spend the money to establish it. There would be more money made by owning the team in Mexico City than the one that was in Prescott Valley and is currently homeless this upcoming season. So it could be a case of putting themselves in position to make a claim on that Mexico City team. There is more involved financially with the Mexico City franchise but the first thing the Suns would need to do is get rid of their own G-League team, which has been completed now.