Suns trade Cam Payne to the Spurs.

[Phrazbit]

His best game was game 2 against the Clippers in 2021. He was incredible in that one.

 

[Mainstreet]

He showed out against one of the game against the Laker also

Cam Payne left some good memories behind.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

His best game was game 2 against the Clippers in 2021. He was incredible in that one.

Chris Paul was out as well.

 

[Covert Rain]

His best game was game 2 against the Clippers in 2021. He was incredible in that one.

That's what was so frustrating with him. Everytime he looked like he locked down his position or was going to take his game to the next level? Fizzle. We would see games where he was so out of control and inconsistent.

 

[Raindog]

Part of the mystery solved. The Suns sent the Spurs the New Orleans 2025 second-round pick.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I wonder why the heck a second rounder would be "protected"?

 

[Phrazbit]

I wonder why the heck a second rounder would be "protected"?

We've got like 4 teams with pick swap options on our next few 1st round picks, all gambling that we suck and their own teams will be marginally better... in sequence... the NBA has gone wild.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We've got like 4 teams with pick swap options on our next few 1st round picks, all gambling that we suck and their own teams will be marginally better... in sequence... the NBA has gone wild.

And unless I'm misunderstanding this, it's all with virtually no risk to us because being over the second apron will already move whatever pick we get to the bottom of the round.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder why the heck a second rounder would be "protected"?

It's all become so perplexing.

I wonder if the Spurs 2024 second round pick could revert to a different second round pick if it falls out of a certain range.

Recently, I've been wondering if second round picks can expire if they don't convey in a certain time frame.

 

[Mainstreet]

And unless I'm misunderstanding this, it's all with virtually no risk to us because being over the second apron will already move whatever pick we get to the bottom of the round.

In future seasons, when the Suns have a first round pick, I'm planning the Suns will draft #30 unless someone surprises me.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder why the heck a second rounder would be "protected"?

I did some more checking. The Spurs pick likely doesn't convey.

From Hoops Rumors:

The 2024 second-rounder that the Suns acquired in the Payne deal is San Antonio’s own pick, per Marks (Twitter link). The Spurs already traded that second-rounder with top-54 protection to the Celtics, and put top-49 protection on it in the deal with Phoenix, so the Suns will receive it only if it lands between 50-54.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

 

[Covert Rain]

I did some more checking. The Spurs pick likely doesn't convey.

The 2024 second-rounder that the Suns acquired in the Payne deal is San Antonio’s own pick, per Marks (Twitter link). The Spurs already traded that second-rounder with top-54 protection to the Celtics, and put top-49 protection on it in the deal with Phoenix, so the Suns will receive it only if it lands between 50-54.

So this appears to be a salary cut move that was made possible by all the ball handlers we have now.

 

[Mainstreet]

So this appears to be a salary cut move that was made possible by all the ball handlers we have now.

I think this mostly has to do with saving luxury tax money because the Suns paid $5.7 million to the Spurs. Personally, I would have preferred to keep Payne over Wainright.

From Hoops Rumors:

Phoenix sent $5.7MM in cash to the Spurs in the Payne trade, according to Marks (Twitter link). Teams above the second tax apron also won’t be permitted to send out cash in trades after the ’23/24 regular season, so the Suns are taking advantage of the opportunity to do so while they still can.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

 

[Covert Rain]

I think this mostly has to do with saving luxury tax money because the Suns paid $5.7 million of Payne's salary for the 2023-24 season. Personally, I would have preferred to keep Payne over Wainright.

From Hoops Rumors:

Phoenix sent $5.7MM in cash to the Spurs in the Payne trade, according to Marks (Twitter link). Teams above the second tax apron also won’t be permitted to send out cash in trades after the ’23/24 regular season, so the Suns are taking advantage of the opportunity to do so while they still can.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

I think bigger boddies is more important at this point than a ball handler. Payne was likely to see a massive reduction of court time with Beal and Gordon additions. Why take the tax penalty on a guy who was going to see reduced playing time and that has been widely inconsistent? I get the move. At least with Ish it's another bigger body and cheaper.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think bigger boddies is more important at this point than a ball handler. Payne was likely to see a massive reduction of court time with Beal and Gordon additions.

The way I look at it, always keep or draft BPA. IMO, it's a salary dump. I bet the Spurs come out way ahead on this trade.

Someone is going to need a point guard.

 

[Covert Rain]

The way I look at it, always keep or draft BPA. IMO, it's a salary dump. I bet the Spurs come out way ahead on this trade.

Someone is going to need a point guard.

In order for the Spurs to come out way ahead, the Suns would have to be missing Payne. I don't think they see it the way you do with all the ball handlers on the roster and with his likely diminished playing time. Now if you are specifically talking about could they have possibly gotten a better deal? It would have been a 2nd rounder still and I doubt the Suns wanted to take salary in return. So there is that.

 

[Mainstreet]

In order for the Spurs to come out way ahead, the Suns would have to be missing Payne. I don't think they see it the way you do with all the ball handlers on the roster and with his likely diminished playing time. Now if you are specifically talking about could they have possibly gotten a better deal? It would have been a 2nd rounder still and I doubt the Suns wanted to take salary in return. So there is that.

I'm talking about the Spurs coming out ahead on the trade. If there is an injury, another team could well want to trade for Payne

The way it looks now, the Suns have more than enough ball handlers, although an injury can change all of that.

What I don't like is giving up assets for nothing, although the Suns will get a trade exception if they choose to use it and save money on the luxury tax.

 

[Yuma]

I wonder why the heck a second rounder would be "protected"?

Gerald Bourget says he has seen some that protect a high second round pick. He has also seen where a pick is protected through pick 50, meaning the odds of drafting those last few spots in the draft make the pick almost impossible to make. I don't think the protection will matter to us much, since it will be bundled in a trade most likely.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Gerald Bourget says he has seen some that protect a high second round pick. He has also seen where a pick is protected through pick 50, meaning the odds of drafting those last few spots in the draft make the pick almost impossible to make. I don't think the protection will matter to us much, since it will be bundled in a trade most likely.

Yeah I've seen second round picks with protection before, it's not common but it's not rare either. What I don't know is if a protected pick automatically expires if it isn't conveyed within 7 years or does it only expire based on the trade agreement.

 

[Yuma]

I'm talking about the Spurs coming out ahead on the trade. If there is an injury, another team could well want to trade for Payne

The way it looks now, the Suns have more than enough ball handlers, although an injury can change all of that.

What I don't like is giving up assets for nothing, although the Suns will get a trade exception if they choose to use it and save money on the luxury tax.

I watched Gerald Bourget, and he was stuck on the trading Payne for a lesser talent in Bol Bol. However, Payne looks like he's mired behind not only the big three but Jordan Goodwin and Eric Gordon, too. He was likely not getting minutes. Plus they supposedly want a floor general type point guard. IDK, the Bol Bol thing I think boils down to his block a game stat.

 

[Mainstreet]

I watched Gerald Bourget, and he was stuck on the trading Payne for a lesser talent in Bol Bol. However, Payne looks like he's mired behind not only the big three but Jordan Goodwin and Eric Gordon, too. He was likely not getting minutes. Plus they supposedly want a floor general type point guard. IDK, the Bol Bol thing I think boils down to his block a game stat.

I didn't look at it that way. The only player I think Cam Payne had beat out was Ish Wainright.

Of course, other factors weigh into the equation, like trade exceptions and the luxury tax.

At least Bol Bol is young, athletic and has a ton of upside.

 

[Yuma]

Yes, we got longer, younger, and more athletic. All things I saw us struggling with on certain matchups last year.

 

[Proximo]

I watched Gerald Bourget, and he was stuck on the trading Payne for a lesser talent in Bol Bol. However, Payne looks like he's mired behind not only the big three but Jordan Goodwin and Eric Gordon, too. He was likely not getting minutes. Plus they supposedly want a floor general type point guard. IDK, the Bol Bol thing I think boils down to his block a game stat.

Yeah they weren't traded for each other.

I will say this although I find it unlikely, Bol Bol could make a bigger impact than Payne just because there is more potential playing time for a forward/center than there is for Payne as a guard with our roster.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yeah I've seen second round picks with protection before, it's not common but it's not rare either. What I don't know is if a protected pick automatically expires if it isn't conveyed within 7 years or does it only expire based on the trade agreement.

Unless stated specifically when 2nd round picks have protection it's sort of a trade for nothing. The Suns only get that San Antonio pick if it falls between 40 and 44, or something, and if it doesn't then we get nothing. There's usually language attached saying if it doesn't fall between there then we get it next season but without that addendum then consider it a trade for nothing because we either get it now or we get nothing. It's kind of like swaps, a gamble but far less risk.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Unless stated specifically when 2nd round picks have protection it's sort of a trade for nothing. The Suns only get that San Antonio pick if it falls between 40 and 44, or something, and if it doesn't then we get nothing. There's usually language attached saying if it doesn't fall between there then we get it next season but without that addendum then consider it a trade for nothing because we either get it now or we get nothing. It's kind of like swaps, a gamble but far less risk.

Yeah, I get that. What I was asking about is the length of time a pick can stay protected. As I understand it, you can't trade picks more than 7 years in the future so do protected picks automatically expire if they haven't conveyed within 7 years or do they only expire as written into the trade agreement? I think that both first and second round picks automatically expire but I don't know for sure.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, I get that. What I was asking about is the length of time a pick can stay protected. As I understand it, you can't trade picks more than 7 years in the future so do protected picks automatically expire if they haven't conveyed within 7 years or do they only expire as written into the trade agreement? I think that both first and second round picks automatically expire but I don't know for sure.

There is typically a yearly protection worked into the agreement when it is traded and it will usually stipulate when the protection goes away. The protection is usually removed after the 2nd or 3rd year that it didn't convey. Protected first round picks will sometimes turn into 2nd round picks if they don't convey within a certain amount of time. Regardless it is worked out in the agreement between the two teams.