Suns trade for Elfrid Payton

[JCSunsfan]

Please tell me there was a trade clause where he has to cut that hair.

It’s not a joke. It has to hurt his game. I would not play him until it is cut.

 

[hcsilla]

I haven't looked at any of his stats, but he can't be any worse than Ulis in this regard. Also, he should be much better defensively than Ulis or Hart at the PG position and that would be a welcome change.

In what regard?


"Much" better defensively is not given since based on real plus-minus Payton was a minus 1.17 on the defensive end. Ulis was minus 1.53.)

I just wanted to point out that there was probably a reason why the Magic traded him for #40. Payton was obviously not in their future plans, not even as a backup PG and they have noone else either at the point.

Still, it was a reasonable trade for the Suns, Payton is obviously better than the Suns' PG's which is a very low bar to jump over.

 

[leclerc]

At least he has something to play for. Too bad it's for the worst team in the league.

 

[Mainstreet]

Payton is listed at 6' 4" or 6' 3" so there is that.

The Suns finally have a tall PG not named Booker.

 

[Mainstreet]

Another thought. The Suns get Daniels and Payton through the use of one second round pick.

The Suns are thrifty in the use of their picks which I like.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I like him. He's been on my radar for awhile. He certainly shouldn't stop the Suns from taking Young or Doncic, but if we end up with one of the elite bigs, he is an interesting player to sign this offseason if the price and fit are right.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Another thought. The Suns get Daniels and Payton through the use of one second round pick.

Didn't we GET the 2nd round pick for taking Daniels? In a way, the Suns got both of them for nothing.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Useless days are numbered.

 

[Mainstreet]

Didn't we GET the 2nd round pick for taking Daniels? In a way, the Suns got both of them for nothing.

It's another way of looking at it. Hopefully gone are the days when the Suns devalue draft picks.

 

[GatorAZ]

Booker no longer the primary PG.

Normally I don't like the draft being before free agency but it works out for the Suns this year. If Young is off the board they have Payton on the back burner and can extend or match a deal. However there's nothing to suggest Elfrid Payton will be anything different than he was in Orlando unless he cuts his hair to improve his shot. Definitely a low risk deal by McD.

 

[Mainstreet]

I like him. He's been on my radar for awhile. He certainly shouldn't stop the Suns from taking Young or Doncic, but if we end up with one of the elite bigs, he is an interesting player to sign this offseason if the price and fit are right.

I'd like to keep Payton... if he shows anything for a backup PG.

He didn't have much value at the trade deadline so hopefully the Suns can keep him for a reasonable salary.

If not, maybe the Suns can do a sign and trade for another piece.

 

[Suns_fan69]

In what regard?


"Much" better defensively is not given since based on real plus-minus Payton was a minus 1.17 on the defensive end. Ulis was minus 1.53.)

I just wanted to point out that there was probably a reason why the Magic traded him for #40. Payton was obviously not in their future plans, not even as a backup PG and they have noone else either at the point.

Still, it was a reasonable trade for the Suns, Payton is obviously better than the Suns' PG's which is a very low bar to jump over.

I don't pretend to understand the nuances of all the advanced stats but most (all?) seem to point to the fact that Payton is a better defender than Ulis.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html#all_advanced
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/u/ulisty01.html#all_advanced

Surprisingly, or at least surprising to me, is that Payton's also a better 3 point shooter this season (albeit with 1/3 less attempts, 100 vs 67).

 

[hcsilla]

I don't pretend to understand the nuances of all the advanced stats but most (all?) seem to point to the fact that Payton is a better defender than Ulis.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html#all_advanced
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/u/ulisty01.html#all_advanced

Surprisingly, or at least surprising to me, is that Payton's also a better 3 point shooter this season (albeit with 1/3 less attempts, 100 vs 67).

Yes, he obviously seems a better defender especially that his defence regressed heavily this season from the previous ones.

He is a tall, athletic PG, was a ball-hawk in college, so he has all the tools to be at least an average defender.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns are waiving Canaan to make room for Payton. Canaan is out for the season.

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Payton is supposed to arrive Friday.

 

[Hoop Head]

Booker no longer the primary PG.

Normally I don't like the draft being before free agency but it works out for the Suns this year. If Young is off the board they have Payton on the back burner and can extend or match a deal. However there's nothing to suggest Elfrid Payton will be anything different than he was in Orlando unless he cuts his hair to improve his shot. Definitely a low risk deal by McD.

This is the main reason I'm happy with the trade. Booker shouldn't be our starting PG any more. Payton and Booker in the backcourt isn't great but it's better than Ulis and Booker. Payton has size, which could help defensively.

I wouldn't be surprised if Payton ends up cutting his hair if he stays in Phoenix. There's no way he'd want to deal with that mop in the Phoenix summers.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns are waiving Canaan to make room for Payton. Canaan is out for the season.

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Payton is supposed to arrive Friday.

I wonder if that means Josh Grey will be kept around. I know he signed a 10 day deal which uses a roster spot but I thought he'd be the one let go since he's just on that contract.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder if that means Josh Grey will be kept around. I know he signed a 10 day deal which uses a roster spot but I thought he'd be the one let go since he's just on that contract.

These were my thoughts as well but perhaps the Suns want three healthy PGs.

Maybe they should have kept Mike James.

 

[Errntknght]

Orlando has an up and coming young PG in Shelvin Mack plus DJ Augustin so they won't be hurt much by the loss of Payton, still a second round pick is giving him away. For us, he's a major upgrade at our worst position - and he's 6'4 so we won't be 'undermanned' at PG for the first time in years. IIRC, he's quite a good defender, too. (His DRPM rank of 73/99 suggests I may be wrong) I believe we'll take a big setback in the chase for ping-pong balls as a dependable point is going to improve pretty much everyone else on the team. When we get Booker back and Payton gets a few games under his belt I won't be surprised if we play .500 ball. Our tough schedule may bail us out but teams will be expecting us to be an easy win for them. You don't have to be better than another team to beat them, just being better than they expect is often enough.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good news concerning Canaan. His contract is fully guaranteed and he can use Suns facilities for rehab.

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[GatorAZ]

This is the main reason I'm happy with the trade. Booker shouldn't be our starting PG any more. Payton and Booker in the backcourt isn't great but it's better than Ulis and Booker. Payton has size, which could help defensively.

I wouldn't be surprised if Payton ends up cutting his hair if he stays in Phoenix. There's no way he'd want to deal with that mop in the Phoenix summers.

That was my first thought but Orlando is almost as bad as Phoenix in the summer with the humidity. I dunno why some of these guys take their appearances so seriously when it's a known fact long hair affects shooting mechanics.

 

[Hoop Head]

This could hurt with acquiring ping pong balls but it also should help the Suns avoid more 50 point blowouts. You got to take the good with the bad and having a real NBA caliber PG starting for us is a good thing. He's not an All-Star and I highly doubt he has the talent to win games for us single handed so I'm ok with this. After the Spurs game it was clear something should be done and since this only cost the team a 2nd round pick, that they acquired with Daniels this summer makes it an even better trade since it cost the Suns essentially nothing.

I haven't seen Payton play much but I remember Magic fans liked his selection when he was drafted, claiming that Payton and Oladipo would make a great defensive backcourt in a few years time. They don't have either of them now and nothing to show for it either so it sucks for them but I'm glad the Suns have a real PG for the rest of the year. Ulis can settle himself back into the backup role and if he doesn't start playing better it wouldn't be surprising if he's not kept beyond this season. They can continue giving G-League players a look after Gray's 10 day deal is finished. I'd rather see G-League players auditioned as backups than starters also, which is how it should be anyways but the Suns have been lacking a real PG almost all season.

 

[Matt L]

That was my first thought but Orlando is almost as bad as Phoenix in the summer with the humidity. I dunno why some of these guys take their appearances so seriously when it's a known fact long hair affects shooting mechanics.

did it affect Nash?

 

[GatorAZ]

did it affect Nash?

No. Mainly because Nash didn't shoot from the back of his neck where his long hair was.

 

[Mainstreet]

After reading an informative article about Elfrid Payton at Arizona Sports (98.7 FM) including video and podcast I came away more informed.

The primary issue appears to be Payton's defense. He knows how to score and he is a adequate passer. Should help Booker a lot by taking away primary PG duties.

Highly recommend taking the time to go through everything at the link below.

By Kellan Olson | February 8, 2018 at 2:05 pm
UPDATED: February 8, 2018 at 4:13 pm

http://arizonasports.com/story/1408503/elfrid-payton-phoenix-suns-point-guard/

 

[Hoop Head]

His stats aren't great but they're pretty good, all things considered. He's averaging 13.0 ppg this season to go with 4.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 1.5 steals, and 2.6 turnovers on 52% shooting from the field and 37% from 3. He's been a starter almost his whole career, starting all 44 games he played in this season and 234 of 281 he's played in his career. It seems he's more of a pass first PG also, only averaging 10 FG attempts a game. Looking over his stats, I don't see the big knock on him other than he hasn't really improved that much compared to his first year in the league. His numbers have stayed fairly consistent but his shooting percentage has gone up. I'm curious what sort of market there will be in free agency for him this summer and what it'll cost to retain him, if he plays well through the end of the year.