Suns trade for Elfrid Payton

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man I remember when first round picks were sold (mostly by Dantoni and sarver). Now you can’t pry picks away from teams for seemingly valuable vets.

 

[Mainstreet]

Man I remember when first round picks were sold (mostly by Dantoni and sarver). Now you can’t pry picks away from teams for seemingly valuable vets.

I remember this as well. Expensive contracts will do that for a team. A team can only hold onto about three max players.

 

[devilalum]

Man I remember when first round picks were sold (mostly by Dantoni and sarver). Now you can’t pry picks away from teams for seemingly valuable vets.

How about 2 first rounders being sent to OKC to take KT off off of our hands?


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[elindholm]

How about 2 first rounders being sent to OKC to take KT off off of our hands?

The alarming thing is that we had posters on this board defending that trade when it happened, saying that Thomas wasn't that valuable and that the picks wouldn't amount to anything.

 

[devilalum]

The alarming thing is that we had posters on this board defending that trade when it happened, saying that Thomas wasn't that valuable and that the picks wouldn't amount to anything.

The first Gaslighters?


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[BC867]

I just read that Payton is the sixth Point Guard the Suns have started this season. Six this season. Unimaginable! A Point Guard in basketball is like a quarterback in football. Can you picture a professional football team starting six different quarterbacks in a season? No wonder Payton had only one assist so long into his second game, although finishing with five when we were down by 40.

This team, especially with Booker out, doesn't know how to finish for a legitimate Point Guard. And if we draft, and start, a Point Guard, he will be the seventh. That would be a tough position to put a rookie into. I hope, now that we have a Point Guard with Payton's skills, we do not draft a Point Guard with our first pick in the draft. He would be starting behind the 8-ball.

As it is, it will probably take Payton a lot of games to help get the rest of this young Suns team capable of finishing for a skilled Point Guard. This has to be considered another example of the Suns dysfunctional approach to NBA basketball by the Managing General Partner/General Manager. Six starting Point Guards this season. It is an embarrassment! I just hope that Payton and Booker don't reach the point of saying, "What's the use?"

 

[Hoop Head]

Saw this on Reddit, seems to fit...

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[GatorAZ]

The alarming thing is that we had posters on this board defending that trade when it happened, saying that Thomas wasn't that valuable and that the picks wouldn't amount to anything.

One of them ended up being Ibaka right? That hurts.

 

[elindholm]

One of them ended up being Ibaka right? That hurts.

Yes, although, to be fair, it doesn't hurt as much now as it did a few years ago. Ibaka never became the star that it looked like he was headed toward.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bordow says Payton has a $10 million dollar cap hold. I'm not sure how this is computed but if true, Payton may have a tough time sticking with the Suns. He struggles on both ends of the court especially with the 3 point shot.

The Suns may not be so invested in Payton, though. Fifteen games into what is essentially a tryout for the fourth-year point guard, it’s unclear whether Phoenix will try to match any offer Payton will receive as a restricted free agent this summer.

The Suns could match an offer or rescind his rights and use his $10 million cap hold figure in free agency.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...in-booker-jay-triano-collin-sexton/443368002/

http://hoopshype.com/player/elfrid-payton/salary/

 

[JS22]

Was listening to The Solar Panel podcast today (yes I hate myself) and they were going over the list of FA PG's. It was vomit inducing. Honestly at this point I am all for keeping Payton and putting some actual talent around him.

If some team offers him a ridiculous contract then I'd try and pry McConnell away from Philly. And if THAT doesn't work, well, there's always ... Brandon Knight. Maybe he could recapture something, anything, as the featured PG. I'd rather go the Knight route if Payton or McConnell aren't options. The rest of the FA PG's are just gross.

 

[Praxis]

I guess it would make sense to keep him if we draft Doncic. That would be the worst case scenario, though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The alarming thing is that we had posters on this board defending that trade when it happened, saying that Thomas wasn't that valuable and that the picks wouldn't amount to anything.

Yup... I remember myself and a couple others being ripped unmercifully for our “negativity” ad naseum and being scolded that Brian Skinner was better value for the dollar and a “good” move.

Good times.

 

[Errntknght]

Was listening to The Solar Panel podcast today (yes I hate myself) and they were going over the list of FA PG's. It was vomit inducing. Honestly at this point I am all for keeping Payton and putting some actual talent around him.

If some team offers him a ridiculous contract then I'd try and pry McConnell away from Philly. And if THAT doesn't work, well, there's always ... Brandon Knight. Maybe he could recapture something, anything, as the featured PG. I'd rather go the Knight route if Payton or McConnell aren't options. The rest of the FA PG's are just gross.

I've come down to earth about Payton since watching him play and shoot. I like McConnell, too, but there is a possibility of getting a young PG from Toronto since they have two of them about equally good. Both are second year players and pass the acid test on shooting:
Fred Vanvleet FG% .418 3PT% .394 FT% .856 AstTO 3.1
Delon Wright FG% .476 3PT% .368 FT% .847 AstTO 2.4
Toronto knows they're good as they've both gotten over 1000 minutes this year and around 800 last year. One difference between them is that Vanvleet is 6'0 195 and Wright is 6'5 190. They aren't going to give them away but the Raptors are lacking at SF so they might let one go in exchange for TJ. My guess is they'll choose to keep Vanvleet who has better RPM ratings - he's ranked 9th between Westbrook and Dinwiddie plus better from the arc.
I think I'd just as soon have Wright at 6'5. He's ranked 16th in RPM (out of 102 PGs). If you favor PER, Vanvleet 15.5; Wright 16.8.
Wright is a first round draft pick, #20 2 years back and Vanvleet was undrafted... that might be important to Toronto in which case they'd choose Wright.

It's got to be worth an inquiry.

 

[Hoop Head]

I've come down to earth about Payton since watching him play and shoot. I like McConnell, too, but there is a possibility of getting a young PG from Toronto since they have two of them about equally good. Both are second year players and pass the acid test on shooting:
Fred Vanvleet FG% .418 3PT% .394 FT% .856 AstTO 3.1
Delon Wright FG% .476 3PT% .368 FT% .847 AstTO 2.4
Toronto knows they're good as they've both gotten over 1000 minutes this year and around 800 last year. One difference between them is that Vanvleet is 6'0 195 and Wright is 6'5 190. They aren't going to give them away but the Raptors are lacking at SF so they might let one go in exchange for TJ. My guess is they'll choose to keep Vanvleet who has better RPM ratings - he's ranked 9th between Westbrook and Dinwiddie plus better from the arc.
I think I'd just as soon have Wright at 6'5. He's ranked 16th in RPM (out of 102 PGs). If you favor PER, Vanvleet 15.5; Wright 16.8.
Wright is a first round draft pick, #20 2 years back and Vanvleet was undrafted... that might be important to Toronto in which case they'd choose Wright.

It's got to be worth an inquiry.

I hope you don't think the Suns should trade TJ for Van Fleet or Wright straight up. That would be an awful deal for the Suns. Not sure what else Toronto has that they'd give up but the Suns would need to get a 1st with that, if nothing else. Or maybe trading Daniels for one of the two. Warren may not have great value but he's certainly worth more than a 3rd string PG.

 

[Praxis]

I wouldn't trade anything for a backup PG. We need to draft Shai/Young and have Booker/Knight back him up. As much as I love McConnell, he is not a starter.

 

[AZCrazy]

Warren is our best frontcourt player at the moment. Not gonna get much better dumping him for more middling depth players.

I took my kids to a game a few days back and my ten year old son looks at at Payton and looks at me and says "Why does that one look like a quail?"

 

[BC867]

I've come down to earth about Payton since watching him play and shoot.

I was so happy to see a facilitating Point Guard on the Suns. It is a disappointment that Payton has limitations. And that, especially with Booker and Warren missing so much time, he didn't have much opportunity to even facilitate.

I just hope that we don't go back to the schoolyard "What's a point guard?" days of Knight.

Our only hope to get out of the cellar, and tanking still another year, is to draft a role playing Center and a role playing Point Guard and, if so, to hire a permanent Head Coach with a winning mentality and ability to motivate a team with so much youth.

 

[devilalum]

I was so happy to see a facilitating Point Guard on the Suns. It is a disappointment that Payton has limitations. And that, especially with Booker and Warren missing so much time, he didn't have much opportunity to even facilitate.

I just hope that we don't go back to the schoolyard "What's a point guard?" days of Knight.

Our only hope to get out of the cellar, and tanking still another year, is to draft a role playing Center and a role playing Point Guard and, if so, to hire a permanent Head Coach with a winning mentality and ability to motivate a team with so much youth.

I find it difficult to evaluate anybody in the current environment . Everybody knows they’re trying to lose.


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[Errntknght]

I hope you don't think the Suns should trade TJ for Van Fleet or Wright straight up. That would be an awful deal for the Suns. Not sure what else Toronto has that they'd give up but the Suns would need to get a 1st with that, if nothing else. Or maybe trading Daniels for one of the two. Warren may not have great value but he's certainly worth more than a 3rd string PG.

Toronto has Kyle Lowry as their starting PG and these two have been alternating as his back up. I certainly wasn't viewing them as a backup here much less 3rd string. I'd trade Payton for either one but why would Toronto do that?
There are number of up and coming young PG's around the league that weren't acclaimed draft picks. Dinwiddie, Tyus Jones(Min), Jerian Grant(Chi) and these two. Dinwiddie got the opportunity and broke out, so he won't be available, for sure. Jones and Grant might be pried away but their minutes indicate their teams value them. Toronto has two so their door is the obvious one to go knocking on.
I'd say TJ is overpaying a bit but we'd trade him ahead of Jackson (and Booker, of course) and who else on our roster would anyone give anything positive for? Daniels maybe, if they're looking for a 3pt specialist - wouldn't hurt to try, of course. One of our mid-first round picks would probably do the job - but I was thinking that combining them might net us a better player. If that doesn't come to pass I'd certainly swap one of them for Vanvleet or Wright. If Milwaukee's pick doesn't convey we'd know that early so we could trade the Miami pick, liesurely...

 

[Mainstreet]

I expect the Suns to draft or trade for a PG with one of their first round picks. They will likely add a couple of depth point guards.

I question whether the Suns will keep Payton unless he is willing to be a backup PG and make changes to enhance his vision. Maybe Ulis stays as a third PG.

 

[Phrazbit]

I expect the Suns to draft or trade for a PG with one of their first round picks. They will likely add a couple of depth point guards.

I question whether the Suns will keep Payton unless he is willing to be a backup PG and make changes to enhance his vision. Maybe Ulis stays as a third PG.

I don't give a squirt about Ulis. Too can't penetrate, can't attack the rim, can't shoot, can't defend. He is a quality and willing passer, but it's literally his only ability and it's easy to shut down when you know he isn't a risk get into the paint or shoot over you.

I think Payton is a quality player, just not a starter, and yes... I think if he cut his hair he'd see more intrigue as a free agent. I don't know for sure if him having shorter hair would alter his production, but I can say for sure it alters the way he plays. He runs with his head tilted backwards so he can see beyond it, he shoots free throws with his head tilted and, I've seen at least one play where he clearly alligator armed a shot because he had no idea where the rim was. I've stayed out of the hair debate, but seriously... if there was only one NBA player in the entire league wearing a baseball cap and he was an iffy shooter... wouldn't you think playing without a cap on would be a good idea? His hair has the coverage of a cap... and even worse, is more elastic, the more he pushes off the ground, the more it drops into his vision. Cut... the... hair...

We need a pg. My dream draft is Ayton, then trading back into the top 8 and getting Young.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't give a squirt about Ulis. Too can't penetrate, can't attack the rim, can't shoot, can't defend. He is a quality and willing passer, but it's literally his only ability and it's easy to shut down when you know he isn't a risk get into the paint or shoot over you.

I think Payton is a quality player, just not a starter, and yes... I think if he cut his hair he'd see more intrigue as a free agent. I don't know for sure if him having shorter hair would alter his production, but I can say for sure it alters the way he plays. He runs with his head tilted backwards so he can see beyond it, he shoots free throws with his head tilted and, I've seen at least one play where he clearly alligator armed a shot because he had no idea where the rim was. I've stayed out of the hair debate, but seriously... if there was only one NBA player in the entire league wearing a baseball cap and he was an iffy shooter... wouldn't you think playing without a cap on would be a good idea? His hair has the coverage of a cap... and even worse, is more elastic, the more he pushes off the ground, the more it drops into his vision. Cut... the... hair...

We need a pg. My dream draft is Ayton, then trading back into the top 8 and getting Young.

I agree with everything.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of Ulis staying as a third point guard is because he is under contract and perhaps a friend of Booker. Still I'm not sure if this is enough reason to keep him.

It's hard to believe a cosmetic issue, such as Payton cutting his hair, would prevent him from improving his production and market value.

Losing weight is a tough issue for some players, e.g., Oliver Miller but going to a barber or changing hair styles is easy.

Getting Ayton and Young would be a very nice draft indeed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with everything.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of Ulis staying as a third point guard is because he is under contract and perhaps a friend of Booker. Still I'm not sure if this is enough reason to keep him.

It's hard to believe a cosmetic issue, such as Payton cutting his hair, would prevent him from improving his production and market value.

Losing weight is a tough issue for some players, e.g., Oliver Miller but going to a barber or changing hair styles is easy.

Getting Ayton and Young would be a very nice draft indeed.

too good to be true for this franchise!

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with everything.

The reason I mentioned the possibility of Ulis staying as a third point guard is because he is under contract and perhaps a friend of Booker. Still I'm not sure if this is enough reason to keep him.

It's hard to believe a cosmetic issue, such as Payton cutting his hair, would prevent him from improving his production and market value.

Losing weight is a tough issue for some players, e.g., Oliver Miller but going to a barber or changing hair styles is easy.

Getting Ayton and Young would be a very nice draft indeed.

I just don't see keeping Ulis. There are so many other pg's who actually can do something on the floor. Ulis is not an NBA player.