Suns Training Camp 2021

Phrazbit · Sep 23, 2021

1Sun said:
Just realize that the small ball line-up struggled last season against the Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets (when their guards actually played), Grizzlies, Pelicans and Kings.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, we went a combined 22-12 against those teams and eliminated 3 of them from the playoffs.

1Sun · Sep 23, 2021

Phrazbit said:
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, we went a combined 22-12 against those teams and eliminated 3 of them from the playoffs.

In other words, more than half of our losses, with one playoff elimination being thanks entirely to the opposing team's starting power forward (Davis) getting hurt (we were losing the series before that happened), one elimination where the opponent was missing its starting point guard (Murray) the entire series and where the other 3 of its top 4 guards (Barton, Dozier and Morris) missed some time and otherwise played hurt, and the last elimination where the opponent was missing its starting power forward (Ibaka) plus its best player overall (Leonard) and yet still gave us everything we could handle.

Thanks for proving my point.

AzStevenCal · Sep 23, 2021

1Sun said:
In other words, more than half of our losses, with one playoff elimination being thanks entirely to the opposing team's starting power forward (Davis) getting hurt (we were losing the series before that happened), one elimination where the opponent was missing its starting point guard (Murray) the entire series and where the other 3 of its top 4 guards (Barton, Dozier and Morris) missed some time and otherwise played hurt, and the last elimination where the opponent was missing its starting power forward (Ibaka) plus its best player overall (Leonard) and yet still gave us everything we could handle.

Thanks for proving my point.

Accurate but not the whole story. We were down one game having lost HCA in Phoenix but we were up by 9(?) or so in LA when Davis went down which would have returned HCA to us.

Phrazbit · Sep 23, 2021

1Sun said:
In other words, more than half of our losses, with one playoff elimination being thanks entirely to the opposing team's starting power forward (Davis) getting hurt (we were losing the series before that happened), one elimination where the opponent was missing its starting point guard (Murray) the entire series and where the other 3 of its top 4 guards (Barton, Dozier and Morris) missed some time and otherwise played hurt, and the last elimination where the opponent was missing its starting power forward (Ibaka) plus its best player overall (Leonard) and yet still gave us everything we could handle.

Thanks for proving my point.

We beat the Lakers in game 1 with a healthy Paul for most of that game, with Paul on the mend by game 4 we were beating them AGAIN before Davis got hurt. You bring up Barton and Morris when they PLAYED against us. Murray was out but he will be out next year too, as will Leonard.

Again... 22-12 and we knocked THREE of them out of the playoffs and in your mind these teams killed us.

Laughable.

Cheesebeef · Sep 24, 2021

1Sun said:
They didn't have their starting point guard, and their starting shooting guard and top back up guard were also hurt, which allowed our guards, particularly CP3, to dominate.

And they still won’t have their starting PG until Feb and even then, 99% of players with ACL tears aren’t even close to themselves until a full season after their injury.

1Sun · Sep 24, 2021

cheesebeef said:
And they still won’t have their starting PG until Feb and even then, 99% of players with ACL tears aren’t even close to themselves until a full season after their injury.

But they have other reinforcements at the guard positions, unlike the Suns at power forward.

JCSunsfan · Sep 24, 2021

1Sun said:
And the Clippers, and the Nuggets, and the Warriors with Wiseman, and the Mavericks, and the Pelicans, and the Grizzlies...and that's just in the West...

Its like you did not even read what I said. Everyone one of those teams goes small at times as a matter of strategy.

Chaplin · Sep 24, 2021

Why, Lord, why? The offseason is the same every year, and people keep indulging him. He's getting exactly what he wants.

1Sun · Sep 24, 2021

JCSunsfan said:
Its like you did not even read what I said. Everyone one of those teams goes small at times as a matter of strategy.

It's different to do so at times, like those other teams, and to do so all the time, as the current incarnation of the Suns is forced to do.

AzStevenCal · Sep 24, 2021

1Sun said:
It's different to do so at times, like those other teams, and to do so all the time, as the current incarnation of the Suns is forced to do.

I've seen small ball before, I don't consider a lineup with Ayton in it to be small ball regardless of who is playing the 4. Neither does the rest of the league, that's just business as usual for most teams.

When we play 3 guards plus any two of CJ, Mikal and Jae - that's small ball. Or when we move Crowder to the 5, that's small ball. But simply playing Cameron at the 4 isn't small ball AFAIC unless you mean Cameron Payne.

1Sun · Sep 24, 2021

AzStevenCal said:
I've seen small ball before, I don't consider a lineup with Ayton in it to be small ball regardless of who is playing the 4. Neither does the rest of the league, that's just business as usual for most teams.

When we play 3 guards plus any two of CJ, Mikal and Jae - that's small ball. Or when we move Crowder to the 5, that's small ball. But simply playing Cameron at the 4 isn't small ball AFAIC unless you mean Cameron Payne.

At 210 and 205 pounds respectively, a line-up with CJ or Mikal at the 4 is by definition small ball. They both have the bulk and strength of shooting guards. Crowder is the closest thing we have to a power forward, but he is only 6'6".

We do not have a single legitimate forward with both the height AND either the bulk/strength or the athleticism necessary to play the 4 in the NBA. There are very few other teams in the league to which that reality applies, and even fewer to which it has applied three years running.

AzStevenCal · Sep 24, 2021

1Sun said:
At 210 and 205 pounds respectively, a line-up with CJ or Mikal at the 4 is by definition small ball. They both have the bulk and strength of shooting guards. Crowder is the closest thing we have to a power forward, but he is only 6'6".

We do not have a single legitimate forward with both the height AND either the bulk/strength or the athleticism necessary to play the 4 in the NBA. There are very few other teams in the league to which that reality applies, and even fewer to which it has applied three years running.

It's like you're stuck in the NBA of 15 years ago. No matter how many names you toss out there, most teams have one of more PFs in their lineup that patrol the perimeter where speed, shooting and length are far more important than weight, bulk or strength.

I've said this several times but I'll waste my time once more. Cameron gives us a matchup advantage most nights as a backup power forward. We need a different type of power forward for the nights when he's the matchup disadvantage but that doesn't mean he's not a power forward. I don't know what his real weight is but the number is meaningless, he IS a power forward in today's NBA.

1Sun · Sep 24, 2021

AzStevenCal said:
It's like you're stuck in the NBA of 15 years ago. No matter how many names you toss out there, most teams have one of more PFs in their lineup that patrol the perimeter where speed, shooting and length are far more important than weight, bulk or strength.

I've said this several times but I'll waste my time once more. Cameron gives us a matchup advantage most nights as a backup power forward. We need a different type of power forward for the nights when he's the matchup disadvantage but that doesn't mean he's not a power forward. I don't know what his real weight is but the number is meaningless, he IS a power forward in today's NBA.

Name one other legitimate power forward in today's NBA that is only 210 pounds and doesn't have jump out of the gym athleticism.

Would you consider Eddie Johnson a power forward in today's NBA? Because Cam Johnson is basically a poor man's Eddie Johnson, only an inch taller and 5 pounds lighter.

AzStevenCal · Sep 24, 2021

1Sun said:
Name one other legitimate power forward in today's NBA that is only 210 pounds and doesn't have jump out of the gym athleticism.

Would you consider Eddie Johnson a power forward in today's NBA? Because Cam Johnson is basically a poor man's Eddie Johnson, only an inch taller and 5 pounds lighter.

Cam can defend power forwards on the perimeter, if Eddie could then yes, he'd probably play power forward in today's NBA. But I don't buy the 210 for Cameron, he looks more solid then when he entered the league.

Krangodnzr · Sep 24, 2021

Chaplin said:
Why, Lord, why? The offseason is the same every year, and people keep indulging him. He's getting exactly what he wants.

POWER FORWARD.

I haven't been on this forum for a few weeks and when I opened this thread I was wondering how long it would take for me to find a post about POWER FORWARD. Took 3 seconds.

Krangodnzr · Sep 24, 2021

1Sun said:
At 210 and 205 pounds respectively, a line-up with CJ or Mikal at the 4 is by definition small ball. They both have the bulk and strength of shooting guards. Crowder is the closest thing we have to a power forward, but he is only 6'6".

We do not have a single legitimate forward with both the height AND either the bulk/strength or the athleticism necessary to play the 4 in the NBA. There are very few other teams in the league to which that reality applies, and even fewer to which it has applied three years running.

Crowder.

1Sun · Sep 24, 2021

Krangthebrain said:
Crowder.

Doesn't have the height.

GatorAZ · Sep 24, 2021

I wouldn’t worry about PF because there’s nobody we can sign or trade for that can guard KD when we play Brooklyn in the finals.

JCSunsfan · Sep 25, 2021

Are we sure BC didn't come back with a different handle?

Mainstreet · Sep 25, 2021

More Suns talk on Fox 10 Phoenix.com on Sunday night at 10:30 p.m.

I'm guessing this will be on local Fox 10 television as well?

Suns Media Day is Monday, September 27th and Training Camp begins Tuesday, September 28th.