Suns updates and discussion for the 2019-20 season

[Carolinacacti]

and when any of us say the same thing on this board, we're labeled haters.

You and your Brother just wish you where right on anything...........................

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You and your Brother just wish you where right on anything...........................

Lol. Haven’t been proven wrong with much, but keep on trucking koolaider!



Also, I am right when I spell “were” correctly.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You and your Brother just wish you where right on anything...........................

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[Cheesebeef]

Rubio is 18 million dollars dead weight against the cap the next two years. And if his excuse was he was run down from the world championships last summer, that's just gonna get worse with another summer at the Olympics.

 

[Phrazbit]

Rubio is 18 million dollars dead weight against the cap the next two years. And if his excuse was he was run down from the world championships last summer, that's just gonna get worse with another summer at the Olympics.

I really wish it had been a 2 year deal. When it was signed I was hopeful that the 3rd year was a team option.

We're certainly better with him than without him, and I'd much rather have him than a pile of garbage like Rozier. We did need someone to take a lot of the ball handling pressure off Booker and I also think that he has been a big help in keeping Booker honest as a defensive player. But man... that 3 year commitment hurts.

Early in the year he was displaying a lot of craftiness on the dribble, forcing the defense to collapse and creating looks for others, these last few months that aspect of his game as dwindled. Maybe it is the demoralization of our season going down the tubes, but I suspect it is more about his legs not holding up to the grind.

 

[Hoop Head]

Mikal Bridges on what the Suns need from Ayton. This is so on target.

This is kind of similar to something I decided to research on my own about how the Lakers did when Shaq put the team on his back vs when Kobe did. I looked over a 5 year stretch of when they were clicking and winning titles to see how they fared when Shaq scored big compared to Kobe and they did much better when Shaq did compared to Kobe. I think the Suns can look at a similar future with Booker and Ayton, when Ayton carries the team then they'll be very hard to beat but when Booker carries the team, it'll be business as usual.

Here's what I found, for those interested. I know the Booker/Ayton = Kobe/Shaq comparison isn't made as often anymore and it's unlikely it will be discussed much nationally because of Kobe's passing, unless the Suns start winning titles but the comparisons were made frequently leading up to the 2018 draft.

Anyways, I think Bridges comments are also backed up by looking at how Shaq & Kobe carried the Lakers also. Kobe was always going to get his but when Shaq got his, it demoralized the other team and led to wins more often than when Kobe went off.

I looked over 5 years, from 1999-2000 to 2003-04, so their first title win against the Pacers to their finals loss to the Pistons, which was their last year together as well. The Lakers were 287-123 in those 5 seasons, without including the playoffs. That gave them an average of 57 wins & 25 losses a season, which equals a 69.5% winning percentage. In those 5 years, Shaq averaged 27 ppg and Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg. So they were comparable during that time, in terms of scoring impact. Now over those 5 years, Kobe scored 35+ in a game 66 times. In those games the Lakers were 46-20 which is a 69.7 winning percentage. That's essentially their average over that timeframe. During that same time, Shaq had 60 games where he scored 35+ and the Lakers went 48-12 in those games, which is a winning percentage of 80%. So they were not only better when Shaq scored big compared to Kobe but they were a good bit better than normal when Shaq had a big scoring game.

I think the same could be said about Booker and Ayton in years to come. We've already seen it a little bit so far. When Ayton has a big game, the Suns are a tough team to beat but Booker having a big game is just another Tuesday, really. We'll need Ayton to step up to get us to that next level because we know that Booker's scoring isn't enough on it's own.

I think the Suns can be viewed similarly in the future. There isn't enough of a sample size for me to look it up now but I'll be curious to see if the Suns have results similar to the Lakers in the future, where they win more if Ayton scores big vs wins that come on Booker scoring big. Of course nothing is guaranteed but I thought it was interesting that I saw that quote after I decided to look up that info earlier today.

I pulled everything from BasketballReference.com. It was a bit of a pain because they don't list a team's record when a player scores X amount, like their game splits, so I had to count everything manually but at least it let me sort things, which made it a little easier.

This is only meant as a comparison, there are a lot of individual differences to take into account for each of them but I think it is interesting because most would probably guess that teams are better when their All-Star big goes off compared to their All-Star guard and this backs that up. Ayton isn't an All-Star yet but I figure he will be in due time.

Hopefully the Suns can build a cast around Booker and Ayton so we can start seeing them post similar winning percentages when they go off. Right now they need a lot of help around them but having those 2 does provide a solid foundation to build on.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Same problem as last year, the Suns just dont have as many good players as the other teams and the only way they win is from big nights from Booker and Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Same problem as last year, the Suns just dont have as many good players as the other teams and the only way they win is from big nights from Booker and Ayton.

With a healthy roster and Baynes and Rubio playing like they did at the start of the season we appear to have enough talent to compete with most times. Unfortunately, that's a mirage. As it is now, we need Booker and Ayton plus good help from at least one other source (Oubre, Bridges or Rubio) just to match up well with the mediocre teams. Until our young guys fully develop, competing with mediocre teams is about all we can expect.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is kind of similar to something I decided to research on my own about how the Lakers did when Shaq put the team on his back vs when Kobe did. I looked over a 5 year stretch of when they were clicking and winning titles to see how they fared when Shaq scored big compared to Kobe and they did much better when Shaq did compared to Kobe. I think the Suns can look at a similar future with Booker and Ayton, when Ayton carries the team then they'll be very hard to beat but when Booker carries the team, it'll be business as usual.

Here's what I found, for those interested. I know the Booker/Ayton = Kobe/Shaq comparison isn't made as often anymore and it's unlikely it will be discussed much nationally because of Kobe's passing, unless the Suns start winning titles but the comparisons were made frequently leading up to the 2018 draft.

Anyways, I think Bridges comments are also backed up by looking at how Shaq & Kobe carried the Lakers also. Kobe was always going to get his but when Shaq got his, it demoralized the other team and led to wins more often than when Kobe went off.

I looked over 5 years, from 1999-2000 to 2003-04, so their first title win against the Pacers to their finals loss to the Pistons, which was their last year together as well. The Lakers were 287-123 in those 5 seasons, without including the playoffs. That gave them an average of 57 wins & 25 losses a season, which equals a 69.5% winning percentage. In those 5 years, Shaq averaged 27 ppg and Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg. So they were comparable during that time, in terms of scoring impact. Now over those 5 years, Kobe scored 35+ in a game 66 times. In those games the Lakers were 46-20 which is a 69.7 winning percentage. That's essentially their average over that timeframe. During that same time, Shaq had 60 games where he scored 35+ and the Lakers went 48-12 in those games, which is a winning percentage of 80%. So they were not only better when Shaq scored big compared to Kobe but they were a good bit better than normal when Shaq had a big scoring game.

I think the same could be said about Booker and Ayton in years to come. We've already seen it a little bit so far. When Ayton has a big game, the Suns are a tough team to beat but Booker having a big game is just another Tuesday, really. We'll need Ayton to step up to get us to that next level because we know that Booker's scoring isn't enough on it's own.

I think the Suns can be viewed similarly in the future. There isn't enough of a sample size for me to look it up now but I'll be curious to see if the Suns have results similar to the Lakers in the future, where they win more if Ayton scores big vs wins that come on Booker scoring big. Of course nothing is guaranteed but I thought it was interesting that I saw that quote after I decided to look up that info earlier today.

I pulled everything from BasketballReference.com. It was a bit of a pain because they don't list a team's record when a player scores X amount, like their game splits, so I had to count everything manually but at least it let me sort things, which made it a little easier.

This is only meant as a comparison, there are a lot of individual differences to take into account for each of them but I think it is interesting because most would probably guess that teams are better when their All-Star big goes off compared to their All-Star guard and this backs that up. Ayton isn't an All-Star yet but I figure he will be in due time.

Hopefully the Suns can build a cast around Booker and Ayton so we can start seeing them post similar winning percentages when they go off. Right now they need a lot of help around them but having those 2 does provide a solid foundation to build on.

Lot's of great research.

Looking back I think you are correct. If Shaq lead the Lakers they are more likely to win although it took both Shaq and Kobe to win championships. Of course the current trend in the NBA is small ball.

 

[gimpy]

What are Shaq and Kobe's numbers like in the same games where the other's numbers are good?

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.la...dern-arizona-home-for-4-195-million?_amp=true

Hmmmm

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is kind of similar to something I decided to research on my own about how the Lakers did when Shaq put the team on his back vs when Kobe did.

I can see you put in some work on that but I'm just not sure how relevant it is.

The game has changed dramatically since Kobe and Shaq were a dominant pairing. And neither Booker nor Ayton are all that similar to their counterparts. Booker is a better shooter and probably a better teammate (on the court) but Kobe was superior in almost every other way. Besides defensive differences, Kobe was a much better ball-handler, less prone to turnovers and he could get to his spot and get his shot off almost regardless of defensive attention - and that was with much laxer rules interpretations regarding holding and impeding player movement. The difference between Shaq and Ayton is even greater.

Shaq and Kobe each benefitted by the attention drawn by the other and that's no small thing. I am confident the same will eventually occur with our pairing but even when that happens, we'll still need a PG and another perimeter player that can keep defenses honest.

 

[AzStevenCal]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/business/real-estate/story/2020-02-20/nba-star-devin-booker-lists-modern-arizona-home-for-4-195-million?_amp=true

Hmmmm

Yeah it's been discussed here before. As I recall, someone pointed out that it was for sell because Booker was building a new house in the Valley.

 

[Mainstreet]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/business/real-estate/story/2020-02-20/nba-star-devin-booker-lists-modern-arizona-home-for-4-195-million?_amp=true

Hmmmm

Maybe he is going to live at the new training facility.

 

[JerkFace]

I really wish it had been a 2 year deal. When it was signed I was hopeful that the 3rd year was a team option.

We're certainly better with him than without him, and I'd much rather have him than a pile of garbage like Rozier. We did need someone to take a lot of the ball handling pressure off Booker and I also think that he has been a big help in keeping Booker honest as a defensive player. But man... that 3 year commitment hurts.

Early in the year he was displaying a lot of craftiness on the dribble, forcing the defense to collapse and creating looks for others, these last few months that aspect of his game as dwindled. Maybe it is the demoralization of our season going down the tubes, but I suspect it is more about his legs not holding up to the grind.

The thing that has surprised me the most about Rubio is that he seems to have almost no chemistry with Ayton. I though that Ayton would greatly benefit from getting Rubio, but the Rubio/Ayton 2 man game is almost non existent.

 

[Mainstreet]

The thing that has surprised me the most about Rubio is that he seems to have almost no chemistry with Ayton. I though that Ayton would greatly benefit from getting Rubio, but the Rubio/Ayton 2 man game is almost non existent.

Most nights it seems Booker feeds Ayton better than anyone. They have some chemistry which hopefully will only get better.

 

[GatorAZ]

This is kind of similar to something I decided to research on my own about how the Lakers did when Shaq put the team on his back vs when Kobe did. I looked over a 5 year stretch of when they were clicking and winning titles to see how they fared when Shaq scored big compared to Kobe and they did much better when Shaq did compared to Kobe. I think the Suns can look at a similar future with Booker and Ayton, when Ayton carries the team then they'll be very hard to beat but when Booker carries the team, it'll be business as usual.

Here's what I found, for those interested. I know the Booker/Ayton = Kobe/Shaq comparison isn't made as often anymore and it's unlikely it will be discussed much nationally because of Kobe's passing, unless the Suns start winning titles but the comparisons were made frequently leading up to the 2018 draft.

Anyways, I think Bridges comments are also backed up by looking at how Shaq & Kobe carried the Lakers also. Kobe was always going to get his but when Shaq got his, it demoralized the other team and led to wins more often than when Kobe went off.

I looked over 5 years, from 1999-2000 to 2003-04, so their first title win against the Pacers to their finals loss to the Pistons, which was their last year together as well. The Lakers were 287-123 in those 5 seasons, without including the playoffs. That gave them an average of 57 wins & 25 losses a season, which equals a 69.5% winning percentage. In those 5 years, Shaq averaged 27 ppg and Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg. So they were comparable during that time, in terms of scoring impact. Now over those 5 years, Kobe scored 35+ in a game 66 times. In those games the Lakers were 46-20 which is a 69.7 winning percentage. That's essentially their average over that timeframe. During that same time, Shaq had 60 games where he scored 35+ and the Lakers went 48-12 in those games, which is a winning percentage of 80%. So they were not only better when Shaq scored big compared to Kobe but they were a good bit better than normal when Shaq had a big scoring game.

I think the same could be said about Booker and Ayton in years to come. We've already seen it a little bit so far. When Ayton has a big game, the Suns are a tough team to beat but Booker having a big game is just another Tuesday, really. We'll need Ayton to step up to get us to that next level because we know that Booker's scoring isn't enough on it's own.

I think the Suns can be viewed similarly in the future. There isn't enough of a sample size for me to look it up now but I'll be curious to see if the Suns have results similar to the Lakers in the future, where they win more if Ayton scores big vs wins that come on Booker scoring big. Of course nothing is guaranteed but I thought it was interesting that I saw that quote after I decided to look up that info earlier today.

I pulled everything from BasketballReference.com. It was a bit of a pain because they don't list a team's record when a player scores X amount, like their game splits, so I had to count everything manually but at least it let me sort things, which made it a little easier.

This is only meant as a comparison, there are a lot of individual differences to take into account for each of them but I think it is interesting because most would probably guess that teams are better when their All-Star big goes off compared to their All-Star guard and this backs that up. Ayton isn't an All-Star yet but I figure he will be in due time.

Hopefully the Suns can build a cast around Booker and Ayton so we can start seeing them post similar winning percentages when they go off. Right now they need a lot of help around them but having those 2 does provide a solid foundation to build on.

Not that your point was strictly Laker related but you’re leaving out the Zen Master affect. He got the Lakers to go from talented/underachieving squad to arguably GOAT-squad. Shaq always put up huge numbers but starting in 2000 he went from great to pantheon-great and Kobe went from flashy kid to lead-guard/elite-defender. Along with Tex Winter who was an implementer of the Triangle offense and really high IQ role players who fit perfectly.

 

[JerkFace]

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[Mainstreet]

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This interesting.

If the Suns don't keep him I'm guessing they are looking to sign someone else or at least this is my hope.

 

[Mainstreet]

With the Suns woes at point guard it wouldn't surprise me if they sign Trey Burke especially with the return of Baynes and Saric. He might be a player that could stick next season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This interesting.

If the Suns don't keep him I'm guessing they are looking to sign someone else or at least this is my hope.

THE OTHER SHOE!!!

 

[Mainstreet]

THE OTHER SHOE!!!

This was Bolden's last game on a 10 day contract. He may be re-signed. If not I'm always looking at options.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This was Bolden's last game on a 10 day contract. He may be re-signed. If not I'm always looking at options.

I’m just teasing. You always expect it and it never comes.

 

[Mainstreet]

I’m just teasing. You always expect it and it never comes.

That's the price of being an optimist I guess.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's the price of being an optimist I guess.

That’s the price of being the fan of a team where most of the deals only kinda seem to make sense.