Suns updates and discussion for the 2020-21 season

[CardsSunsDbacks]

the scary part is it might not be the same player. We have to start asking whether or not college/first year Ayton looked so much more explosive because he was on PEDs. Because after he came back from the suspension, he never quite had that same spring in his step when he came back last year.

People were blaming it on his ankle injury, but then they got two and a half months off snd in the bubble still looked pretty lethargic, all his numbers went down and now, it seems like he’s winded in the 2nd quarter and just has almost ZERO explosion. He can still move laterally pretty well, and has learned to use his body positioning on D, but he’s still not blocking shots and he’s just got NOTHING on offense.

He also looked quite a bit slimmer back then. Was looking at rookie highlights the other day and Ayton easily looked a good 30 lbs lighter than he is now.

Maybe he just isn't as explosive because he is carrying around extra weight. He is also thinking way too much out there which is a quick way to make someone look slower and less explosive.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He also looked quite a bit slimmer back then. Was looking at rookie highlights the other day and Ayton easily looked a good 30 lbs lighter than he is now.

Maybe he just isn't as explosive because he is carrying around extra weight. He is also thinking way too much out there which is a quick way to make someone look slower and less explosive.

this is possible as well.

regardless, it’s really troubling that a 22 year old kid looks so groundbound after coming in just two years earlier showing some solid pop.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Ha look who he was playing. He came in thinking he was unstoppable and learned differently. He is doing what the coach wants and the team needs, there only 10 games in wait, wait and wait some more.

 

[Mainstreet]

the scary part is it might not be the same player. We have to start asking whether or not college/first year Ayton looked so much more explosive because he was on PEDs. Because after he came back from the suspension, he never quite had that same spring in his step when he came back last year.

People were blaming it on his ankle injury, but then they got two and a half months off snd in the bubble still looked pretty lethargic, all his numbers went down and now, it seems like he’s winded in the 2nd quarter and just has almost ZERO explosion. He can still move laterally pretty well, and has learned to use his body positioning on D, but he’s still not blocking shots and he’s just got NOTHING on offense.

I deliberately pulled up short on that jump shot but it certainly went through my mind.

The weight issue would be easier to solve. I'm not seeing the strong Ayton media talks about.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ha look who he was playing. He came in thinking he was unstoppable and learned differently. He is doing what the coach wants and the team needs, there only 10 games in wait, wait and wait some more.

But offensively he’s not doing what the coach wants. We’ve already seen monty come out and say he wants him more aggressive, wants him to dunk when it’s there and he’s not doing it.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's not getting any better with the Wizards.

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[Finito]

You guys still talking about Ayton?

he’s never going to be that guy you want him to be. Faster you come to terms with that the happier you’ll be

 

[Hoop Head]

You guys still talking about Ayton?

he’s never going to be that guy you want him to be. Faster you come to terms with that the happier you’ll be

With how far he's regressed offensively it seems like most would settle for him being as good as he was in his rookie year, offensively.

There's no doubt he's regressed and the its worth discussing why.

There's a very real possibility he's regressed because he's no longer taking PED's and if that's the case then the Suns need to trade him before the rest of the league catches on and his value plummets.

 

[Finito]

With how far he's regressed offensively it seems like most would settle for him being as good as he was in his rookie year, offensively.

There's no doubt he's regressed and the its worth discussing why.

There's a very real possibility he's regressed because he's no longer taking PED's and if that's the case then the Suns need to trade him before the rest of the league catches on and his value plummets.

hes not being asked to play that role anymore. Plus is doesn’t take a genius to see how out of shape he is.

he’s there to set screens. Look at the old Rockets offense that’s what we are running even Booker is struggling to adjust.

 

[Suns_fan69]

hes not being asked to play that role anymore. Plus is doesn’t take a genius to see how out of shape he is.

he’s there to set screens. Look at the old Rockets offense that’s what we are running even Booker is struggling to adjust.

What? The Rockets offense is predicated on having hard dives to the basket by the screener and shooters surrounding it so that it's a gamble to go help on the hard dives. Look at the personnel they had doing that: Tyson Chandler, Clint Capela, Dwight, Nene (to a lesser extent), etc. They don't just set screens and float to the basket, they set screens and look for lobs if one of the other defenders don't show on it.

 

[Finito]

What? The Rockets offense is predicated on having hard dives to the basket by the screener and shooters surrounding it so that it's a gamble to go help on the hard dives. Look at the personnel they had doing that: Tyson Chandler, Clint Capela, Dwight, Nene (to a lesser extent), etc. They don't just set screens and float to the basket, they set screens and look for lobs if one of the other defenders don't show on it.

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Yes I’m aware. That’s why the screens are set out at the 3 points line. The center is an after thought. It’s catch lobs or swing for an open shot in the paint. I don’t ever remember them running post plays for any of those guys.

it’s designed for perimeter players to get open shots first. With Booker playing the Harden role but Booker ain’t Harden

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You guys still talking about Ayton?

he’s never going to be that guy you want him to be. Faster you come to terms with that the happier you’ll be

I don’t understand these comments. Because you have low expectations of him you’re just going to stop talking about him? We complain, analyze and talk about every player. Even if he’s forever less than expectations it doesn’t mean we can’t, or shouldn’t talk about his minimizing his opportunities. I mean, in the cards board so we all pretty agree that Isabella sucks but we still talk about him and his failings. And if he was a central piece of the team we would even talk about him that much more.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

hes not being asked to play that role anymore. Plus is doesn’t take a genius to see how out of shape he is.

he’s there to set screens. Look at the old Rockets offense that’s what we are running even Booker is struggling to adjust.

So our expectations should be that he’s a worse Clint capela?

 

[Finito]

I don’t understand these comments. Because you have low expectations of him you’re just going to stop talking about him? We complain, analyze and talk about every player. Even if he’s forever less than expectations it doesn’t mean we can’t, or shouldn’t talk about his minimizing his opportunities. I mean, in the cards board so we all pretty agree that Isabella sucks but we still talk about him and his failings. And if he was a central piece of the team we would even talk about him that much more.

but why?

why waste your energy on a guy that clearly doesn’t care as much as you do. What good does it do to come on here and complain every day that’s he’s not aggressive? He’s never going to be that’s not who he is he will never be that guy.

 

[Finito]

So our expectations should be that he’s a worse Clint capela?

that’s what he’s being asked to do. So kinda

 

[Hoop Head]

hes not being asked to play that role anymore. Plus is doesn’t take a genius to see how out of shape he is.

he’s there to set screens. Look at the old Rockets offense that’s what we are running even Booker is struggling to adjust.

If we were running the Rockets offense then Booker would be seeing more opportunities but he's really not, at least when Paul is on the floor with him. The offense is more like the one CP3 ran in New Orleans when Monty was his coach, which was let Paul create. He calls out the plays and its often screens and picks for him to dribble drive and dish.

When Paul is on the bench then the team is expected to pick back up the .5 offense which is a huge change from what they were running. They need to find a faster pace and more efficient offense so Booker and Ayton can both get going and moving to the .5 offense isn't such a drastic change.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

but why?

why waste your energy on a guy that clearly doesn’t care as much as you do. What good does it do to come on here and complain every day that’s he’s not aggressive? He’s never going to be that’s not who he is he will never be that guy.

So you don’t comment on Isabella? Did you comment on bender or Chriss or josh Jackson? I mean we learned what they were by this stage but we still talked about them. We still wished they would evolve. I don’t get why some posters just don’t want to see Ayton discussion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you don’t comment on Isabella? Did you comment on bender or Chriss or josh Jackson? I mean we learned what they were by this stage but we still talked about them. We still wished they would evolve. I don’t get why some posters just don’t want to see Ayton discussion.

It’s also weird to argue people should stop talking about Ayton when we’ve actually seen CHANGE, negative change, this season. I’d kinda get it if he was literally in a point of stasis. But he hasn’t been this year. There is something REALLY off about him this year, much more so than the last two where he’s not just much less aggressive/confident on offense, but now has zero stamina or explosion.

when things change for a player, especially for the worse on one end of the floor where he was expected to step up not backwards, that seems like exactly the time he’s talked about most.

 

[Finito]

So you don’t comment on Isabella? Did you comment on bender or Chriss or josh Jackson? I mean we learned what they were by this stage but we still talked about them. We still wished they would evolve. I don’t get why some posters just don’t want to see Ayton discussion.

no not really. I don’t wish guys would evolve or be so something there not. To me that’s just wasted energy.

guys can evolve if they have something better inside them, but when someone shows you who they are you should probably believe them.

can’t make him care

 

[Finito]

If we were running the Rockets offense then Booker would be seeing more opportunities but he's really not, at least when Paul is on the floor with him. The offense is more like the one CP3 ran in New Orleans when Monty was his coach, which was let Paul create. He calls out the plays and its often screens and picks for him to dribble drive and dish.

When Paul is on the bench then the team is expected to pick back up the .5 offense which is a huge change from what they were running. They need to find a faster pace and more efficient offense so Booker and Ayton can both get going and moving to the .5 offense isn't such a drastic change.

he is seeing those opportunities he’s just not Harden. His game isn’t suited to this offense

 

[Finito]

It’s also weird to argue people should stop talking about Ayton when we’ve actually seen CHANGE, negative change, this season. I’d kinda get it if he was literally in a point of stasis. But he hasn’t been this year. There is something REALLY off about him this year, much more so than the last two where he’s not just much less aggressive/confident on offense, but now has zero stamina or explosion.

when things change for a player, especially for the worse on one end of the floor where he was expected to step up not backwards, that seems like exactly the time he’s talked about most.

would you say Booker hasn’t lived up to expectations aswell?

 

[Proximo]

It’s also weird to argue people should stop talking about Ayton when we’ve actually seen CHANGE, negative change, this season. I’d kinda get it if he was literally in a point of stasis. But he hasn’t been this year. There is something REALLY off about him this year, much more so than the last two where he’s not just much less aggressive/confident on offense, but now has zero stamina or explosion.

when things change for a player, especially for the worse on one end of the floor where he was expected to step up not backwards, that seems like exactly the time he’s talked about most.

actually he is playing about the same as he did in the bubble. It was the time between last season and the bubble where his game really deteroriated.

when he was a rookie he wanted to score, now he seems like he could care less. It makes almost no sense since we know he wants to get paid.

there has to be more to the story, but I’m not sure fans will ever know what it is.

 

[Hoop Head]

would you say Booker hasn’t lived up to expectations aswell?

He hasn't and there is a thread dedicated to his play. So why shouldn't people talk about Ayton? You keep deflecting when presented with solid reasoning and counter points to what you've said.

 

[Cheesebeef]

actually he is playing about the same as he did in the bubble. It was the time between last season and the bubble where his game really deteroriated.

when he was a rookie he wanted to score, now he seems like he could care less. It makes almost no sense since we know he wants to get paid.

there has to be more to the story, but I’m not sure fans will ever know what it is.

I think he looks even more lethargic than the bubble. But yeah... the bubble raised a brow as well.

 

[Finito]

He hasn't and there is a thread dedicated to his play. So why shouldn't people talk about Ayton? You keep deflecting when presented with solid reasoning and counter points to what you've said.

well let’s get this straight I’ve never said people shouldn’t or couldn’t talk about Ayton your missing what I’m trying to say.