Suns updates and discussion for the 2020-21 season

[Hoop Head]

well let’s get this straight I’ve never said people shouldn’t or couldn’t talk about Ayton your missing what I’m trying to say.

Did I say that you did? No. You didn't specifically say people needed to stop but you claimed it was pointless to discuss his regression since he is who he is and questioned why people would spend the energy or time discussing his shortcomings. You also stated that people will be happier once they accept Ayton is who he is and that anyone's happiness is directly linked to Ayton's play.

People have presented reasons why his game is still being discussed and rather than respond to those points you choose to bring up other things, diverting the conversation, like how you asked about Booker's play, or give another reason why it's pointless to analyze Ayton's play. Sorry but 22 year old NBA players aren't generally finished products. Those players will be diacussed on fan message boards like this, especially when that player showed a lot more promise and facets of their game as 19-20 year old rookies.

You don't have to like the discussions or partake in them but why else would you tell others they're wasting their time or saying they'll be happier when they accept him as he is now, if you didn't want to see less discussion about him?

 

[Finito]

Did I say that you did? No. You didn't specifically say people needed to stop but you claimed it was pointless to discuss his regression since he is who he is and questioned why people would spend the energy or time discussing his shortcomings. You also stated that people will be happier once they accept Ayton is who he is and that anyone's happiness is directly linked to Ayton's play.

People have presented reasons why his game is still being discussed and rather than respond to those points you choose to bring up other things, diverting the conversation, like how you asked about Booker's play, or give another reason why it's pointless to analyze Ayton's play. Sorry but 22 year old NBA players aren't generally finished products. Those players will be diacussed on fan message boards like this, especially when that player showed a lot more promise and facets of their game as 19-20 year old rookies.

You don't have to like the discussions or partake in them but why else would you tell others they're wasting their time or saying they'll be happier when they accept him as he is now, if you didn't want to see less discussion about him?

you clearly care more about this than I do. Your giving me this impression that you are feeling attacked

 

[RagMMA]

I think the main problem is they put him out there and said ok go be a center. He needs a mentor that's not Baynes or Frank. Send his butt to a legit big man school.

Centers take time he's gonna be ok, if he starts playing as good as he talks he's gonna be fire.

We can't really compare how he played in 2016 summer league to the NBA.

I feel CP3 playing at a snail's pace has messed up more that just Aytons timing but they will figure it out.

 

[Hoop Head]

you clearly care more about this than I do. Your giving me this impression that you are feeling attacked

Feeling attacked? Not at all. Just trying to figure out what you're contributing to the discussion.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I just want Ayton to be their in the forth QT and crunch time. Not to score but to rebound and defend...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just want Ayton to be their in the forth QT and crunch time. Not to score but to rebound and defend...

the problem with this is if he is completely taking himself out of the offense, then the Onis having to play 4 on 5 to get shots at the end of games. You can’t have a complete non-option on the floor on offense in the fourth quarter. And that’s what he is at this point. You can play good D all you want, but if you are struggling to score, that’s eventually going to catch up to you on the other end.

 

[Finito]

Feeling attacked? Not at all. Just trying to figure out what you're contributing to the discussion.

same thing you are.

man I wish Devin Booker was taller.

that better?

 

[Finito]

the problem with this is if he is completely taking himself out of the offense, then the Onis having to play 4 on 5 to get shots at the end of games. You can’t have a complete non-option on the floor on offense in the fourth quarter. And that’s what he is at this point. You can play good D all you want, but if you are struggling to score, that’s eventually going to catch up to you on the other end.

Saying he’s a “non option” is a pretty big stretch for a guy shooting 56% from the field.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Saying he’s a “non option” is a pretty big stretch for a guy shooting 56% from the field.

You’re missing my point. he makes himself a non option because of his timidity and refusal to bang, crash hard and seal and often times not even facing the basket when he gets the ball between the FT and top of the key.

again, it’s not that he CAN’T be an option. It’s that he WON’T be an option that makes it problematic if all people want him to do is play defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Saying he’s a “non option” is a pretty big stretch for a guy shooting 56% from the field.

That fails to take into consideration:

Ayton’s inability to seal his defender to make himself a viable option

Ayton’s skillethands turning into repeated turnovers.

I look forward to the game where you can say “see! I told you so!” as he scores at will down the stretch of a game to put it away. How many games do you think it will be before you get that opportunity?

 

[Finito]

You’re missing my point. he makes himself a non option because of his timidity and refusal to bang, crash hard and seal and often times not even facing the basket when he gets the ball between the FT and top of the key.

again, it’s not that he CAN’T be an option. It’s that he WON’T be an option that makes it problematic if all people want him to do is play defense.

his numbers are pretty much the same across the board the only thing that’s down are his field goal attempts, but that’s because we actually have guys who can score everybody else’s attempts are way up but we are playing at a snail pace.

he’s not a banger he never has been. He’s a finesse guy.

 

[Finito]

That fails to take into consideration:

Ayton’s inability to seal his defender to make himself a viable option

Ayton’s skillethands turning into repeated turnovers.

I look forward to the game where you can say “see! I told you so!” as he scores at will down the stretch of a game to put it away. How many games do you think it will be before you get that opportunity?

you and me both, but I think that game will come for his new team next year when we trade him

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

you and me both, but I think that game will come for his new team next year when we trade him

What do you think he’ll bring back in trade?

 

[Mainstreet]

Unless something changes the Suns game with Memphis at 3.p.m. on Monday appears a go.

Although Memphis coach Taylor Jenkins does not have all the details he does say this.

From Duane Rankin, Arizona Republic:


"All I know is that everything is kind of full go right now," Jenkins said before Memphis played Saturday against Philadelphia. "There's some final checkmarks that need to be taken care of, obviously, for Phoenix to get back on track, but we're all hopeful we are able to play on Monday."


https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-grizzlies-kind-full-go-right-now/4193291001/

 

[Mainstreet]

Nothing official on the Suns-Grizzles game Monday.

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[Finito]

What do you think he’ll bring back in trade?

not much now. I think we missed our shot at moving him. We could of had KAT for him now who knows

 

[AzStevenCal]

not much now. I think we missed our shot at moving him. We could of had KAT for him now who knows

Wasn't that just speculation fueled rumors?

 

[Finito]

Wasn't that just speculation fueled rumors?

i was under the impression it was pretty real

 

[AzStevenCal]

i was under the impression it was pretty real

Maybe? I know I saw posters talking about it here and on Wolves sites but I can't recall any actual leaks on it?

 

[Finito]

Maybe? I know I saw posters talking about it here and on Wolves sites but I can't recall any actual leaks on it?

so many guys I’d rather have

 

[BC867]

...he’s not a banger he never has been. He’s a finesse guy.

Another Alvan Adams, who was 6'9"-212.
Our Power Forwards had to cover Center.

Except Ayton is 6'11" (formerly 7'0")-249.

Two inches taller and 37 pounds heavier.

We have a right (and need) to expect more
than finesse from Ayton.

But then, he was playing Power Forward at
UofA when we drafted him.

Someone on the Suns should have researched
it when we made him the #1 pick . . . . . . . . .
to play Center.

Which is why we need to move him back to Power
Forward and obtain a legitimate starting Center,
at least on offense. Even if Ayton is our leading
rebounder from the PF position.

But then, he probably wouldn't be because he is
an opportunity rebounder, not a power rebounder.

Doesn't that sound logical? It is a complex situation
and requires complex thinking by Suns coaches.

It reminds me of the ol' Baltimore Bullets when they
had the tall chiseled Elvin Hayes at Power Forward
and the shorter squat Wes Unseld at Center. When
you looked at the Big 'E', you would have assumed
that he was the Center. Nope, he was the PF.

And IIRC, they won a Championship with that lineup.
Something the Suns have never accomplished.
There is a precedent!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Another Alvan Adams, who was 6'9"-212.
Our Power Forwards had to cover Center.

Except Ayton is 6'11" (formerly 7'0")-249.

Two inches taller and 37 pounds heavier.

We have a right (and need) to expect more
than finesse from Ayton.

But then, he was playing Power Forward at
UofA when we drafted him.

Someone on the Suns should have researched
it when we made him the #1 pick . . . . . . . . .
to play Center.

Which is why we need to move him back to Power
Forward and obtain a legitimate starting Center,
at least on offense. Even if Ayton is our leading
rebounder from the PF position.

But then, he probably wouldn't be because he is
an opportunity rebounder, not a power rebounder.

Doesn't that sound logical? It is a complex situation
and requires complex thinking by Suns coaches.

It reminds me of the ol' Baltimore Bullets when they
had the tall chiseled Elvin Hayes at Power Forward
and the shorter squat Wes Unseld at Center. When
you looked at the Big 'E', you would have assumed
that he was the Center. Nope, he was the PF.

And IIRC, they won a Championship with that lineup.
Something the Suns have never accomplished.
There is a precedent!

I strongly disagree. What he needs to do is get back in the weight room and become the center we need him to be. Move him to the perimeter and we lose the foundation of a very effective defense and we'd be beating him up here anyway for becoming the next Channing Frye. BTW he played both center and power forward at UA. He did so because their next best big man was incapable of playing more than a few feet from the hoop. DA spent a lot of time at center though and it was clearly his best position.

If, IF, we find a big man that, like DA, excels in an area or two yet can do all the other things we want a modern big man to do, then, we can move Ayton to the outside. But frankly, at that point, we'd be far more likely to move him to another team.

 

[Mainstreet]

i was under the impression it was pretty real

I don't recall the Ayton for Towns trade being on the table but there were rumors to that effect.

Mostly I think it was media driven though and the Timberwolves would want more than Ayton.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...cludes-phoenix-suns-deandre-ayton/2823859001/

 

[Ronin]

Yasssssssssssssssssss!

 

[Ronin]

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