Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Most interesting part of that article for me:

This team is bananas

 

[SirStefan32]

Most interesting part of that article for me:

I noticed that too. I can't figure out how a lineup of Durant, Booker, Allen, Gordon and Nurkic can have a good defensive rating, let alone the best one.

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

This is what Grayson Allen's contract might look like if the Suns extend him.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Hoop Head]

This is what Grayson Allen's contract might look like if the Suns extend him.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He's not getting the max if he re-signs here. We're so far into the tax that there's no way I can see that happening. Something more reasonable like 4 years/$60 million would be fair. He's a product of this system and while he deserves a payday he doesn't deserve a max payday because he's not getting that much elsewhere.

 

[1982baskets]

Players who shoot like him and have proven they can start in the league, have a reputation of being physical, I think they will get paid Dillon Brooks money. The Suns extension offer, the max, is in line with what Brooks got, I think.

To me it all depends what we are trying to do. If we're trying to win in the longrun, not just this year. Then we need to keep Allen with that extension. If he doesn't take it, he's likely a gonner in the offseason. In which case, you deal him for a longterm asset. You are already depleted and limited after KD/Book/Beal/Allen/Nurk. There's literally only second round picks to move now.

If Grayson isn't a longterm asset, we need to move him for one. Winning your first title as a play in team or 6th seed has never happened, the Rockets repeated with Hakeem, but this team is in it's first run together, still trying to figure out how to play. They've already invested in Beal for the longrun. Book and KD are here to stay. Allen is a quality fourth piece, if you're willing to pay the consequences with taxes. The thing is, you must then buy into that Nurk/KD/Allen/Beal/Book + some musical chairs with role players + good cheap free agent pick ups will be enough to win a title (or contend) this season and next season. Do we buy/believe into that?

Is continuity with KD/Book/Beal/Allen/Nurk + some adjustmets to our 6th, 7th and 8th best rotation players (top 8) all we need? The team surely looks better when Gordon, Bol Bol and Okogie step in and play well. It looks like a legit contender. However how often does that really happen? Do we buy in that we can get quality 6th, 7th and 8th best players who fill in voids around the core 5? For example a long stretch 5 (Eubanks isn't this, but Bol could be). A wing 3andD who can defend SFs (No one on this team does this). Etc. We have pieces we would need, and we'd be severely limited.

 

[Chaplin]

If Grayson isn't a longterm asset, we need to move him for one. Winning your first title as a play in team or 6th seed has never happened, the Rockets repeated with Hakeem, but this team is in it's first run together, still trying to figure out how to play. They've already invested in Beal for the longrun. Book and KD are here to stay. Allen is a quality fourth piece, if you're willing to pay the consequences with taxes. The thing is, you must then buy into that Nurk/KD/Allen/Beal/Book + some musical chairs with role players + good cheap free agent pick ups will be enough to win a title (or contend) this season and next season. Do we buy/believe into that?

I find it interesting that you are asking this question, because I thought it has already been answered. We absolutely 100% buy into it. We don't make the KD trade without buying into that, let alone the Beal one.

 

[Proximo]

When is the last time you heard a player say he straight up did not want to be traded (minus KD a few weeks ago)?

They usually answer with some kind of agent-speak.

Let go of the hate!

There is no hate. I have heard players say that many times - and it is generally true, most of the time they don't want to be traded. Not fun to move and all.

There is a big difference between not wanting to be traded and wanting to resign with the team you are with. For some players more money can mean they are happy to leave.

 

[Proximo]

Players who shoot like him and have proven they can start in the league, have a reputation of being physical, I think they will get paid Dillon Brooks money. The Suns extension offer, the max, is in line with what Brooks got, I think.

To me it all depends what we are trying to do. If we're trying to win in the longrun, not just this year. Then we need to keep Allen with that extension. If he doesn't take it, he's likely a gonner in the offseason. In which case, you deal him for a longterm asset. You are already depleted and limited after KD/Book/Beal/Allen/Nurk. There's literally only second round picks to move now.

If Grayson isn't a longterm asset, we need to move him for one. Winning your first title as a play in team or 6th seed has never happened, the Rockets repeated with Hakeem, but this team is in it's first run together, still trying to figure out how to play. They've already invested in Beal for the longrun. Book and KD are here to stay. Allen is a quality fourth piece, if you're willing to pay the consequences with taxes. The thing is, you must then buy into that Nurk/KD/Allen/Beal/Book + some musical chairs with role players + good cheap free agent pick ups will be enough to win a title (or contend) this season and next season. Do we buy/believe into that?

Is continuity with KD/Book/Beal/Allen/Nurk + some adjustmets to our 6th, 7th and 8th best rotation players (top 8) all we need? The team surely looks better when Gordon, Bol Bol and Okogie step in and play well. It looks like a legit contender. However how often does that really happen? Do we buy in that we can get quality 6th, 7th and 8th best players who fill in voids around the core 5? For example a long stretch 5 (Eubanks isn't this, but Bol could be). A wing 3andD who can defend SFs (No one on this team does this). Etc. We have pieces we would need, and we'd be severely limited.

Therein lies the problem - I don't think they know whether to stick with this team or blow it up yet.

Resigning Allen to $15 million a year is an $80 million dollar tax hit next year. A lot more if it has to go to $20 million a year.

Honestly I think the smart thing to do if you are the Suns is to trade him for a longer term contract. It allows you flexibility to keep the team together or blow it up depending on how they do the rest of the year - Or get Allen to resign now.

I think going into the offseason with him as an unrestricted free agent is too big of a risk.

 

[Mainstreet]

He's not getting the max if he re-signs here. We're so far into the tax that there's no way I can see that happening. Something more reasonable like 4 years/$60 million would be fair. He's a product of this system and while he deserves a payday he doesn't deserve a max payday because he's not getting that much elsewhere.

I thought it was good to look at the math as a guideline. The luxury tax even on $60 million would be astronomical.

 

[Yuma]

This is what Grayson Allen's contract might look like if the Suns extend him.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I would be surprised if Grayson Allen DOESN'T get a max contract. A higher contract makes him a better trade chip in the fact we have to trade almost dollar for dollar over the second apron. Bobby Marks in his recent video said ownership is NOT worried about the taxes they would have to pay to keep Allen.

 

[Hoop Head]

I would be surprised if Grayson Allen DOESN'T get a max contract. A higher contract makes him a better trade chip in the fact we have to trade almost dollar for dollar over the second apron. Bobby Marks in his recent video said ownership is NOT worried about the taxes they would have to pay to keep Allen.

This team doesn't think that far ahead. Cam Payne was traded in a salary dump when his contract was more tradable than using a trade exception. We also could have re-signed Biz and Craig for reasonable amounts to give us more trade fodder going fodder since we had early bird rights on both of them. I'd be very surprised if they max Grayson just for trade flexibility. With how the league is going teams want to avoid the aprons so a higher salary isn't better.

 

[1982baskets]

According to Jones, Payne was traded as they wanted to change the way they play. Become more big and versatile with playmaking and shot making, and defense. We're a team full of dual guards - no real PG.

Allen is tough call, he brings value but not 80M a year tax value. If this team was a title winner as is, I can see them justify it. To be a 45 to 48 win team, which is what we are, I don't see the justification.

Which goes back to the main problem with the team. The dependence on the big 3 being healthy. When healthy, they look like a quality team. The issue is they're on pace to get 34 games from Beal, and 20 games from the big 3 together. That's not going to get you titles. So paying for depth pieces like Allen, seems a hard sell for me. Not my money and I'm not a billionaire and may still be suffering from the Sarver era.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

According to Jones, Payne was traded as they wanted to change the way they play. Become more big and versatile with playmaking and shot making, and defense. We're a team full of dual guards - no real PG.

Allen is tough call, he brings value but not 80M a year tax value. If this team was a title winner as is, I can see them justify it. To be a 45 to 48 win team, which is what we are, I don't see the justification.

Which goes back to the main problem with the team. The dependence on the big 3 being healthy. When healthy, they look like a quality team. The issue is they're on pace to get 34 games from Beal, and 20 games from the big 3 together. That's not going to get you titles. So paying for depth pieces like Allen, seems a hard sell for me. Not my money and I'm not a billionaire and may still be suffering from the Sarver era.

I think the justification is that since beals return we are on a pace for what would be a 60 win team. So while we wouldn’t actually hit that number and seeding, the team heading into the playoffs may have that level of talent and capability. You would want to maximize that b

 

[Mainstreet]

I would think Grayson Allen should get an invitation to compete in the 3-point contest.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Superbone]

I would think Grayson Allen should get an invitation to compete in the 3-point contest.

You think the guy shooting the highest 3-point shooting percentage in the NBA should be in the 3-point contest? Hmm. I don't know...

 

[Chaplin]

You think the guy shooting the highest 3-point shooting percentage in the NBA should be in the 3-point contest? Hmm. I don't know...

It's not like Eddie Johnson mentioned it 35 times on the broadcast last night...

Oh wait.

 

[Hoop Head]

According to Jones, Payne was traded as they wanted to change the way they play. Become more big and versatile with playmaking and shot making, and defense. We're a team full of dual guards - no real PG.

Allen is tough call, he brings value but not 80M a year tax value. If this team was a title winner as is, I can see them justify it. To be a 45 to 48 win team, which is what we are, I don't see the justification.

Which goes back to the main problem with the team. The dependence on the big 3 being healthy. When healthy, they look like a quality team. The issue is they're on pace to get 34 games from Beal, and 20 games from the big 3 together. That's not going to get you titles. So paying for depth pieces like Allen, seems a hard sell for me. Not my money and I'm not a billionaire and may still be suffering from the Sarver era.

James Jones is a GM and I've never heard one come out and openly state they made a salary dump. Even Kerr tried spinning the KT trade to OKC as a positive move. Goodwin and Saban Lee are roughly the same size as Payne and Payne is much better than either of them. Both Lee and Goodwin have seen a lot of minutes earlier in the year when 1 of the big 3 were absent.

 

[Hoop Head]

ESPN+ has a piece up about needs for all contenders, listing the Suns last in the article but I found their blurb interesting.

I'd be all for Delon Wright. He's a player I've liked for a while, going back to Toronto before they won their title a few years back. He'd be a nice boost for our second unit.

NBA trade deadline 2024: What every contender needs for a deep playoff run

With the Feb. 8 trade deadline rapidly approaching, what do NBA contenders need to do to ensure a chance at an NBA Finals berth?

www.espn.com

Phoenix Suns (+1200): Perimeter defense
The glaring missing piece in Phoenix is a traditional point guard, with Devin Booker and Bradley Beal sharing those duties since Beal has gotten healthy. I'm not sure, however, that's the right direction for the Suns, who won't necessarily play a point guard late in games anyway. I'd focus on the 3-and-D spot that Phoenix hasn't gotten consistent play at this season from Keita Bates-Diop, Nassir Little or Josh Okogie.

Okogie has seen the most consistent action, but after hitting 33.5% beyond the arc last season, he has slumped to 23% in 2023-24. Teams will gladly double Phoenix's stars using Okogie's man in the postseason. Perhaps the Suns could solve both needs at the same time. Delon Wright of the Washington Wizards is a point guard with the size to defend multiple spots at 6-5. He's also a 36% 3-point shooter this season and could be gettable with the second-round picks that are all Phoenix has to offer.

---

​

 

[Mainstreet]

ESPN+ has a piece up about needs for all contenders, listing the Suns last in the article but I found their blurb interesting.

I'd be all for Delon Wright. He's a player I've liked for a while, going back to Toronto before they won their title a few years back. He'd be a nice boost for our second unit.

NBA trade deadline 2024: What every contender needs for a deep playoff run

With the Feb. 8 trade deadline rapidly approaching, what do NBA contenders need to do to ensure a chance at an NBA Finals berth?

www.espn.com

Yeah, the Suns need rotation players for their bench period.

I'd consider anybody that might be able to crack the rotation or provide serviceable minutes. The Suns do need more size.

I'd settle for one addition, but they really need two IMO.

The Suns could do worse than Delon Wright and Bismack Biyombo. I'm open to all candidates, though.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wenyen Gabriel might be an interesting FC for the Suns to take a look.

I liked him when he played for the Lakers. He is athletic.