Suns vs. Celtics game thread

[My3Suns]

We should get a win tonight. I pick Suns by 7. JJ better bring his A+ game defensively.

Who do you think should start this game.

I say:

Starbury
JJ
Marion
Voskuhl
Jahidi

Then have the six man as Barbossa
But have him come in a little early to give
either JJ or Marion a breather from having to assert so much energy guarding Pierce
I would love to see those Three guys rotating constantly to lock Pierce down.

 

[Chaplin]

We're at home tonight, so I can't expect JJ to do much of anything. Especially if he's guarding Pierce or Ricky Davis (who is only averaging 8.7ppg since he was traded).

 

[boisesuns]

it should be interesting to see how they play tonight. if they can start gelling a little with these guys, it should make for a stronger team when zarko and amare get back. they are both due back in january right?

hopefully they can get into the mix quickly and the suns can start figuring out a team game. we can run all we want, but we have to play on both ends and learn how to score when the other team plays defense

 

[Joe Mama]

Well, D'Antoni has Hardaway, JJ, and Shawn Marion all starting alongside Jake Voskuhl and Marbury. It is a tiny frontline. I would much rather see the Suns good a traditional starting lineup out there. We'll see how it goes.

I hope Hardaway shoots the ball better tonight than he has over the last couple games.

Joe Mama

 

[dyle_ph1]

Finally! the suns finally ended a half with a nice run

 

[My3Suns]

If the Suns play the second half like they did the first, the Celtics don't have a chance at winning this one.


I have a feeling P. Pierce is going to get at least one technical foul tonight just because he's extremely frustrated.

 

[My3Suns]

I think D'antoni is doing a great job.

He coaches to his players abilities and not his own ego.

Once Stat and Z get back, full strength, this team is going to be extremely exciting.

 

[scudney]

what a disaster this game is turning out to be. 7:00 left in 4th and we're already over the foul limit

 

[My3Suns]

I didn't want to say it before but I think the Suns have the "Fourth Quarter" Frank curse.

If anyone was questioning whether D'antoni had any x's and o's type coaching ability I would say yes.

The last play of the game was perfectly drawn up, Marbury just simply bobbled it. That stupid curse.

 

[sly fly]

Not sure why Barbosa was left on the bench for so long.

He would of been a perfect balance to counter Marcus Banks (who was shredding right through the PHX D).

- Marbury once again has disappointed me down the stretch. I thought that pass was money from Harvey. Marbury thought it was too hard.

- Why can't Marion finish?

- Casey Jacobsen's game is officially UGLY. From a sweet point machine in college... he's now relegated to trying to draw contact on every shot he takes.

- Jahidi in the doghouse?

- Nice floater, JJ. His arms are shorter than David Boston's going across the middle for a reception.

- Gee, how many ping pong balls will they get?

 

[Joe Mama]

I don't care how well you run an offense against the zone. If your players can't hit open shots they are going to struggle against it. I'm not even saying they have to shoot 50% on their open shots, but they can't go for 12 minutes without being able to make any open jump shots.

Without Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa this Phoenix Suns team is just not good enough to have two of their main players to shoot as poorly as Marbury and JJ did tonight. They were a combined 8-27 from the field tonight.

I would also just once like to see how well this offense could run if Marbury actually waited for a pick.

What does Jake Voskuhl have to do to get some respect from the referees?

Joe Mama

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I don't care how well you run an offense against the zone. If your players can't hit open shots they are going to struggle against it. I'm not even saying they have to shoot 50% on their open shots, but they can't go for 12 minutes without being able to make any open jump shots.

I would also just once like to see how well this offense could run if Marbury actually waited for a pick.

It's pretty frustrating watching this team shoot jumpers. Nothing is ever sustained, and we get to only see glimpses of success.

During that run by Boston, Marbury's gaffe's were the main culprit. Banks picked his pocket twice, through the ball to Pierce a couple times, and launched early jumpers.

You could see that run coming from a mile away.

Boston was dead, and PHX let them have their way.

 

[elindholm]

I don't care how well you run an offense against the zone. If your players can't hit open shots they are going to struggle against it.

The Suns still don't move without the ball. This was more evident watching the game live from up high, when you can "look down" (so to speak) on the players. Against man-to-man defense they were getting away with it, but against the zone it was the usual disaster. The Suns really didn't get very many good shots against Boston's zone.

I don't understand why Hardaway isn't in the lineup against zone defenses. None of the Suns are confident shooters, but Hardaway is certainly among the best of a weak lot. It's quite remarkable that he was able to come off the bench stone cold with 20-whatever seconds to play and make that three. Everyone is clamoring for a "zone buster" and hoping that some offbeat solution like Cabarkapa will present itself, but at least putting Hardaway on the floor would be a step in the right direction.

Once Pierce got hot, the Suns' defense came completely unglued. They started panicking as soon as he touched the ball and leaving the rest of the Boston team open. Fortunately for the Suns, the Celtics missed several open shots in the last few minutes. Had Pierce been more selfish down the stretch, I think the Suns would not have gotten as close as they did.

It was encouraging to see a last-second play almost result in a layup. However, I really don't see a big improvement between Frank Johnson and D'Antoni. It is pretty much the same mistakes over and over.

On the corridor walls of the upper level at AWA, there are big panels featuring former Suns greats that include, among other things, those players' "favorite plays." And sure enough, there are plays diagrammed, right there on the wall. Does the current Suns team have a standard playbook? It still doesn't look like it.

Very discouraging game. When the Suns got up 17, I'm sure I wasn't the only one who thought, "The Celtics will go to a zone and the Suns will fall apart." And all of us who thought it were right.

 

[George O'Brien]

I didn't catch the game. Why didn't White play? The Celtic's centers killed us:

McCarty 7-11 and 5-7 for 3
Blount 4-7
Mihm 1-2

McCarty is only 6'10 - 230. White might not be able to cover him, but he would have problems defending against White. In any case, Who defensed McCarty and who was on Baker?

What is it about JJ at home? 0-4 shooting 3's; 4 of 14. Grim.

The bizzare part of this game was that the Celtics shot 51% to only 42% for the Suns, yet only beat the Suns by 2. The Suns actually out rebounded them by 9 and only gave up 2 offensive rebounds. But Celtics were 50% for three point shots.

 

[jbeecham]

Elindholm, I know exactly what you are talking about. I thought the same thing when the Suns went up 17 pts. They got stagnant on offense and defense and started playing not to lose instead of playing to win. It didn't help that the Suns shot something like 54% in the 1st half and around 35% in the 2nd half.

Marbury really had an off game shooting, but the Suns really struggled when he wasn't in the game. It seemed like D'Antoni really wanted to rest him tonight although looking at the box score it says Marbury only missed 7 minutes. It seemed like a lot longer, but that was probably because the Suns offense slowed down so much when he wasn't in the game.

I'm not down on Shawn, but he used to be one of the best finishers on the fast break and now he takes off balance layup attempts instead of dunking over a guy.

Casey has no mid-range game, but he's a decent spot-up 3pt shooter and can drive to the basket once in a while. He also had a couple of weak side rebounds tonight.

JJ needs to stop taking 3's. If he would just take the ball to the basket he would be a much better player. I liked his defense on Pierce, but Pierce also played pretty good defense on him.

Penny almost always annoys me and he did again tonight, but he hit a big shot at the end of the game and actually shot a good percentage tonight so I'll give him some credit. I still hate his turnovers (yeah Jake should have caught 2 of those passes, but Penny should've caught Marbury's pass as well). He was also in the wrong place on defense a lot, but I was also watching for him to be out of place on defense so it was easy to recognize it.

Barbosa was shooting short in the few minutes that he got, but he had a nice steal and played some good defense overall. I really like his effort and energy and he should have played more.

I'm still not impressed with Harvey. His offense is very ugly and it looks like he's going to turn it over every time he touches it. He gets beat on defense a lot (although he isn't afraid to deliver a hard foul). He hasn't shown me that he's the good rebounder that I thought he was (especially offensively).

BTW George, McCarty was playing PF and being guarded by Marion. Marion kept leaving him to double team Pierce and no one rotated to McCarty who was on fire from 3. Baker barely played tonight. The Boston centers were mostly Blount and Mihm. Blount only got points because of double teaming Pierce and the rotation left him unguarded.

 

[Joe Mama]

Actually, Hardaway is no better against the zone defense. He does absolutely nothing but stand beyond the three-point line. At least Shawn Marion, JJ, and Marbury attempt to penetrate to get things going.

You are right about Marbury. He was an absolute disaster during that run by Boston.

Joe Mama

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by sly fly


- Casey Jacobsen's game is officially UGLY. From a sweet point machine in college... he's now relegated to trying to draw contact on every shot he takes.

- Nice floater, JJ. His arms are shorter than David Boston's going across the middle for a reception.

JJ - soft - always has been - and that shot just shows me - always will be - you can see it in his eyes - that runner was painstakingly close to an airball - "shorter than David Boston's . . . : - classic.

Oh and just to show that I can actually change my opinion on people who actually give me reason to - I hated CJ last year and the beginning of this year, but I am no longer afraid of him having the ball on the court and actually am starting to believe when he puts the ball up it's going in - he's gonna be a good role player in the future - JJ - well the jury's always been out on him and it still is.

Fun game to be at though - sitting third row behind Danny Ainge.

 

[elindholm]

Good summary, jbeecham. And very good point about Marion on the break. He just seemed indecisive and out of control. The Suns had at least two easy fast breaks go awry because of Marion's bungling.

One thing about Kidd is that, as soon as his teammate gets the ball in a fast break situation, he immediately gets himself in position to receive the next pass and lead the break. Marbury just takes off and trusts someone else to do the job. That's fine if you have several people on your team who can handle it, but of these Suns, I don't trust anyone other than Marbury to make the right decision to be able to convert a 3-on-2.

Joe Mama, you're right that some of the other Suns "try" to penetrate against a zone, but their attempt is so pathetic that it's a joke. They dribble in a few feet, then stop, then kick it out to someone else behind the arc so that the sequence can be repeated. Big deal.

I'd rather have someone on the team who says, "If you go to a zone and leave me open, I will shoot it and you will pay. I don't care how much time is on the shot clock or where I'm standing. I must be guarded." Right now, there is no one on the Suns who is in a position to say that -- they are either shoot too poorly or are cowards. But Hardaway is the closest.

For all of his weaknesses, I firmly believe that Hardaway is the team's best all-around shooter. For him not to be on the floor when the team can't buy a basket is a big mistake.

And finally, what is up with Ced Ceballos? For those of you who haven't been to a live game recently, he's like the MC of the entire event. He comes out several times a game with interviews or skits or other nonsense. I thought it was pretty lame, no offense to Ceballos. I started calling him "Cedric the Entertainer" late in the first half.

 

[jbeecham]

Ced has been doing that at every game I've been to (maybe it's just weekend games). It's pretty lame, but then again so is most of the entertainment that they have during timeouts and quarter breaks. At least during the halftime show I got to laugh because one of the dancers (some dance school, not the suns dancers) had her santa hat fly off her head annd get stuck to her outfit and then she did a kick and her shoe flew off into the crowd and then she slipped and almost fell because she was missing her shoe. The only entertainment there that I usually like is the zoo crew dunking after the 3rd qtr, but the gorilla missed 2 dunks tonight and then did an easy dunk to make sure he made his final attempt.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Went to the game tonight. Took 3 of my kids. We were 9 rows off of the floor just off of the north goal. That close, I saw things I don't normally see.

Steph was manhandled all night. He was bumped over and over again. He was double teamed off of every screen and could never get into the flow. If Steph isnt playing decent, we aren't going to win (with our present injuries).

The Suns couldn't shoot over the Celts zone because they struggled getting decent open looks, and when they finally did, they clanked them.

Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson are redundant.

The Suns continue to play a man defense, which totally came apart during the 3rd quarter. You could see it happen. The Celts called a time out and then came out with huge defensive energy. The Suns became frustrated on offense and seemed to let that carry over to the defensive end.

I like Harvey. He had some decent moves inside. But I cannot understand how a player who has all of a week with this team is on the floor at crunch time. There cannot be much chemistry there yet. I think Jahidi would have created a mismatch for the Suns.

Since I was at the game, it was hard to keep track of stats. But Casey Jacobsen was a presence on the floor. He rebounded well, and defended well. He even fouled well. If the guy could ever get his shot down.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by jbeecham

BTW George, McCarty was playing PF and being guarded by Marion. Marion kept leaving him to double team Pierce and no one rotated to McCarty who was on fire from 3. Baker barely played tonight. The Boston centers were mostly Blount and Mihm. Blount only got points because of double teaming Pierce and the rotation left him unguarded. [/B]

I was hoping the Suns would focus on playing man defense. But it seems like they are back double teaming and leaving guys wide open because they are not rotating quickly enough.

It is very disappointing.

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Fun game to be at though - sitting third row behind Danny Ainge.

You're kidding me! Dang we get to frequent the same arenas twice in one week! LOL!

I hope the results aren't the same.

 

[Billythekid]

Very disappointing... yet again.

 

[Joe Mama]

IMO the biggest problem for the Phoenix Suns defensively is that their perimeter players are not doing a good job of keeping opponents in front of them. Sometimes it's because the defender is overaggressive (Shawn Marion). Other times it's because they are just too slow (Casey Jacobsen & Penny Hardaway). The same thing happened Tuesday against Seattle.

Eric, I agree that Hardaway is probably the Suns best all-around shooter right now. However the time I see him again zone defense he refuses to move inside the three-point line.

JJ is a bench player. I do not like him and Shawn Marion in the game at the same time. As someone already said they are redundant.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

They gave up more than 100 points once again. The Suns can't do that, they are not good enough offensively to just exchange buckets and not get defensive stops.

The Celtics were another team that shot better than 50% against the Suns from behind and inside the arc.

During our last 3 games all opponents shot better than 50% from behind the arc. All of them shot over 50% from the field except the Lakers who were at "only" 49.4% when they put the game away.

D'Antoni is no improvement at all. They might be better to watch offensively now but the defense is flat out horrible even compared to Frank Johnsons' defense.
The bottom line are wins and they are not there.