Suns Vs Grizzlies 11-5-14

[BC867]

This PG mixture may be having some chemistry problems.

If one picture is worth a thousand words, Mainstreet's nine words paint an accurate picture.

Trying to out-gimmick D'Antoni isn't going to get the Suns through the season.

I feel sorry for Jeff Hornacek. Unless 'every game is a new beginning' wasn't thrust upon him.

Ultimately, that same mentally (finally) got Kirk Gibson fired from the D-backs.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is Bledsoe supposed to be the leader of this team? We certainly pay him as if he is. I think it's safe to hold Bledsoe to a higher standard than Dragic, and a standard that most other max players are held to. 9 turnovers in a game against a key rival is just hideous, period...

Actually he's not a max player and I don't think Memphis is our rival, they're our better. The only thing that kept them down to our level last year was injuries. This year, they'll likely be where we hope to be in a few years. They'll be competing for a spot in the finals.

Several of those turnovers were caused by bumble-fingered big men and all but one of the rest were symptomatic of the same problem Dragic faces. Eric just carelessly dribbled one away but he had a handful of turnovers that occurred when he tried to force the action by dribbling through the crowd. They slapped at his hands and the ball and as is often the case when it's crowded, the refs ignored the contact. Dragic's game has been stymied by that same congestion, his solution has been passivity.

And I don't think we re-signed Bledsoe to be our leader, he's never shown that potential before so why should money in the bank change that now? We re-signed him because he was our asset and to let him walk for nothing would have been foolish. Dragic, likewise, isn't much of a leader. Last year, it was Frye and Tucker. This year it's Tucker and who knows? It doesn't help that Tucker isn't the brightest player either so there's a limit to how much leadership you can expect from the man. Let's face it, this is a very flawed team and not just in the lack of balance.

I think they'll figure things out and we'll still have a pretty decent season but very few of us thought this was the team of the future. I was hoping that all the Frye bashers were correct and that we'd be better off without him but with the roster constructed, that just isn't the case. It's what we have though and for awhile, it's probably all we'll have.

I think we move Bledsoe and Green before next season and maybe even Goran. I like both of our combo-point guards but neither one of them is great at running a team. I don't see either of them excelling in a traditional offense. Dragic had 3 great months last season and it's no coincidence that it corresponded with the best 3 months of Frye's career. When Frye tailed off, so did Goran. Other than that stretch, Dragic has been a decent player but nothing more.

The twins and Len aren't superstars but they play a physical brand of basketball, one that could easily be built around and one that is far better equipped to thrive in the postseason. I think we'll keep Thomas, if he's willing to stay, and we'll make some trades to acquire a true shooting guard through the draft or trades. With Len and Markieff improving along with a couple of quality backups, we should be ready to seriously contend in two or three years. Until then, we'll run some opponents out of the gym but teams that can control the tempo against us will often make us look Sigourney Weaver without makeup.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

If one picture is worth a thousand words, Mainstreet's nine words paint an accurate picture.

Trying to out-gimmick D'Antoni isn't going to get the Suns through the season.

I feel sorry for Jeff Hornacek. Unless 'every game is a new beginning' wasn't thrust upon him.

Ultimately, that same mentally (finally) got Kirk Gibson fired from the D-backs.

I wish I had the answer but I can only guess. I do think the Suns PGs are using the same playbook, drive the ball to the basket instead of running the team. I think Dragic is best when he is the primary PG but he has been drawn into this one on one play. I think this is why he looks lost. Actually I think the Suns could learn something from D'Antoni... spread the court and have a primary PG. I think the Suns will find their way eventually if Hornacek can better define roles especially with the guards. IMO, the Suns are confused as to who is running the team. Time will only tell if the Suns work out the glitches but I think it is way too early to panic.

 

[Phrazbit]

Why wouldn't Memphis be a key rival?? They are one of the elite teams in the west, no? I believe the Suns view them as a key rival and a team they know they need to figure out, particularly since they have now lost 5 straight to the Grizzlies...

And, do you really believe the Suns will pay Dragic more than Bledsoe??

If they're a key rival then basically 80% of the conference counts as rivals. I just don't view things that way.

And yes, I think, barring Dragic struggling this bad all year, he will get as much or more than Bledsoe.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think it should be obvious that when a player is making max contract, he will be held to high expectations. When a player is making $7-$9M/season, he will be held to appropriate expectations.

I expect Bledsoe to play at an All Star level when he's taking in a cool $80 million+.

Pisses me off watching a Kyle Lowry so successful in Toronto for a cheaper price tag than Bledsoe.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think it should be obvious that when a player is making max contract, he will be held to high expectations. When a player is making $7-$9M/season, he will be held to appropriate expectations.

I expect Bledsoe to play at an All Star level when he's taking in a cool $80 million+.

Pisses me off watching a Kyle Lowry so successful in Toronto for a cheaper price tag than Bledsoe.

Except that he isn't on a max contract or making 80 million. But hey, since when do facts matter.

And again, this "Bledsoe vs Dragic" double standard was going on last year too when Bledsoe made half what Dragic does.

 

[SirStefan32]

Except that he isn't on a max contract or making 80 million. But hey, since when do facts matter.

And again, this "Bledsoe vs Dragic" double standard was going on last year too when Bledsoe made half what Dragic does.

He played half as many games.

 

[sunsfan88]

If we Played 100 games against Memphis, Suns would lose 90

Lol no way, their front court had a bad game today, otherwise they'd have killed us.

We lost more like 97-98 times.

 

[Errntknght]

Tolliver is useless, first real bad move by McD

No, his first real bad move was not grabbing Ed Davis the minute Memphis failed to make him a QO. He might have proceeded to sign Tolliver anyway because he was so intent on finding a stretch 4 to replace Frye but at least we'd have someone besides Markieff that can actually play PF.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No, his first real bad move was not grabbing Ed Davis the minute Memphis failed to make him a QO. He might have proceeded to sign Tolliver anyway because he was so intent on finding a stretch 4 to replace Frye but at least we'd have someone besides Markieff that can actually play PF.

From everything I've read, Davis wanted to play in LA. We probably could have bought him if we'd come in with a real offer but he was only going to play cheaply in a market that would get him exposure for his next contract.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lol no way, their front court had a bad game today, otherwise they'd have killed us.

We lost more like 97-98 times.

Our back court had a bad game today, otherwise we'd have killed them. Or perhaps, we had something to do with their front court not having a great game and they had something to do with our backcourt not stepping up.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Nah our backcourt has been off more than their front court has been off.

Nothing but a fluke that the Suns held Randolph and Gasol down. Them shutting down our backcourt isn't surprising, they have one of the best, if not the best, defense in the NBA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Nah our backcourt has been off more than their front court has been off.

Nothing but a fluke that the Suns held Randolph and Gasol down. Them shutting down our backcourt isn't surprising, they have one of the best, if not the best, defense in the NBA.

So that's the way it works? It's a fluke when we do something right but not when the other team does?

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

So that's the way it works? It's a fluke when we do something right but not when the other team does?

Steve

Yep, exactly.

 

[sunsfan88]

So that's the way it works? It's a fluke when we do something right but not when the other team does?

Steve

It's a fluke when a team that's generally bad at something does something good (see the Suns defense vs other teams front courts) and not a fluke when a team that's generally good at something does it again (see Grizz defense).

Let me know if you have any more questions, here to help

 

[82CardsGrad]

Except that he isn't on a max contract or making 80 million. But hey, since when do facts matter.

And again, this "Bledsoe vs Dragic" double standard was going on last year too when Bledsoe made half what Dragic does.

He's making $14 million per year. How much more would a max contract have paid him? For all intents and purposes, he's a max player...

And there is no chance that Dragic will make more than $14 million a year while Bledsoe is still on this team.

 

[Superbone]

It's a fluke when a team that's generally bad at something does something good (see the Suns defense vs other teams front courts) and not a fluke when a team that's generally good at something does it again (see Grizz defense).

Let me know if you have any more questions, here to help

But somehow that logic doesn't apply to the Grizzlies backcourt? Got it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Actually he's not a max player

For all intents and purposes, he's a max player at $14 million a year...

and I don't think Memphis is our rival, they're our better. The only thing that kept them down to our level last year was injuries. This year, they'll likely be where we hope to be in a few years. They'll be competing for a spot in the finals.

I think a conference foe, who has beaten us 5 times in a row and a team that we should expect to face in the post season (should we make it) would be considered a key rival...

And I don't think we re-signed Bledsoe to be our leader, he's never shown that potential before so why should money in the bank change that now? We re-signed him because he was our asset and to let him walk for nothing would have been foolish. Dragic, likewise, isn't much of a leader. Last year, it was Frye and Tucker. This year it's Tucker and who knows? It doesn't help that Tucker isn't the brightest player either so there's a limit to how much leadership you can expect from the man. Let's face it, this is a very flawed team and not just in the lack of balance.

I get what you're saying... However, I can't imagine that the Suns would pay a guy $14 million per, and not expect him to be a leader...

I think we move Bledsoe and Green before next season and maybe even Goran.

I think Green will be the odd man out and will not last the season. Bledsoe and Dragic will remain.

 

[BC867]

I get what you're saying... However, I can't imagine that the Suns would pay a guy $14 million per, and not expect him to be a leader...

Completely unrelated. A big boost in pay doesn't change his inherent personality or (lack of) leadership skills.

I think Green will be the odd man out and will not last the season. Bledsoe and Dragic will remain.

A complete team needs an instant offense guy off the bench. Especially at the Wing positions.

Green fills a role. Dragic AND Bledsoe AND Thomas are re-dun-dun-dun-dant.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's making $14 million per year. How much more would a max contract have paid him? For all intents and purposes, he's a max player...

And there is no chance that Dragic will make more than $14 million a year while Bledsoe is still on this team.

I think, for Bledsoe, a max would have been 3 million more per year. And until Goran started showing so poorly he was rumored to be a lock (LOCK) for a max deal. His would have been much higher than Bledsoe's paltry 14 per. I say paltry because right now he's the 33rd highest paid player in the league and that number will rise dramatically over the next two years. But he is what he is and leader he ain't.

Steve

 

[Sci Fi]

I don't think he is a very smart offensive player. He is a scoring guard and great going to the basket and his outside shot is improving but he doesn't seem to have any idea how to run an offense.

This seems like such a simple and obvious conclusion but few are willing to go there. Given your stance, mind answering a few questions?

What do see as the future for this team this year? Should players be changed or is it just a system change? Do you expect that any changes will actually occur. Thanks.

 

[Phrazbit]

He's making $14 million per year. How much more would a max contract have paid him? For all intents and purposes, he's a max player...

And there is no chance that Dragic will make more than $14 million a year while Bledsoe is still on this team.

No, he isn't a max player. Kyrie Irving is a max guy at 90 million, Bledsoe is 20 million short of that number. Bledsoe is a reserved guy, just like BC said, giving a guy money does not inherently change his personailty.

And barring this team dramatically under preforming this year and them blowing the entire thing up, I flat out guarantee that Dragic will get resigned for the same dollar figure or more.

The cap is going through the roof, they can afford to spend 28 million on the back court, especially given how the two of them dominated as a combo last year.

 

[Chaz]

This seems like such a simple and obvious conclusion but few are willing to go there. Given your stance, mind answering a few questions?

What do see as the future for this team this year? Should players be changed or is it just a system change? Do you expect that any changes will actually occur. Thanks.

I don't think we will see any major personnel changes during the season. Unless some is having a fire sale they will probably look to next summer for improvements. Despite a stated goal of making the playoffs they are still in the middle of a rebuild and should maintain a long term view.

In the short term I think Dragic needs to be the primary ball handler when initiating the offense in a half court setting. I think he is better (more active) and more comfortable in that role. Bledsoe needs to be put in situations to catch and shoot, which seems improved over the summer, or attack the basket on the side off the dribble or cutting without the ball. Bledsoe is a very talented scorer and very strong finishing at the rim and the coaches need to find ways to emphasize those strengths.

Much like the MikeD system days they need to drive, pass, or shoot when they get the ball not stand around dribbling and waiting for screens to be set.

A lot of this (problem on offense) is just growing pains. Preseason can only sort out so much. I think Jeff will figure it out. Some of the problem may be sorting through the depth and a lack of cohesive lineups early in the season. I expect it will even out of the next 15 or 20 games. I am interested to see how Warren fits in when he comes back.

If we could just get the big men to be ready and catch the ball when it is passed to them (or comes to them off the glass) that would be a huge improvement.


As to the ongoing salary discussion. He is getting paid like a leader of this team it isn't unreasonable to expect production to match. I don't think he will ever be a vocal leader but it won't matter if he is playing well.

 

[Errntknght]

From everything I've read, Davis wanted to play in LA. We probably could have bought him if we'd come in with a real offer but he was only going to play cheaply in a market that would get him exposure for his next contract.

Steve

I didn't read that anyplace but since he signed with LAL for 1 million, it sounds reasonable. My read on the situation at the time was that he wanted to escape from ZBo's shadow and probably told Memphis he was not going to take the qualifying offer so they didn't bother to make it. My idea was to offer him more than the QO, which would have still been cheap and point out to him that Markieff was his only competition at PF. I'd want a long enough contract that we'd have the advantage over other teams when it came time to resign him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think we will see any major personnel changes during the season. Unless some is having a fire sale they will probably look to next summer for improvements. Despite a stated goal of making the playoffs they are still in the middle of a rebuild and should maintain a long term view.

In the short term I think Dragic needs to be the primary ball handler when initiating the offense in a half court setting. I think he is better (more active) and more comfortable in that role. Bledsoe needs to be put in situations to catch and shoot, which seems improved over the summer, or attack the basket on the side off the dribble or cutting without the ball. Bledsoe is a very talented scorer and very strong finishing at the rim and the coaches need to find ways to emphasize those strengths.

Dragic has struggled as the lead guard too (and he's actually had more touches per game than Eric) although yes, it's been worse when he's played off the ball. As for penetrating, I remember seeing stats after the season that showed that Bledsoe has been much more effective penetrating from near the top of the key and that Dragic succeeds at a higher rate when penetrating from the side. Maybe that goes by the wayside though without Frye working the pick and roll/pop with Goran.

Steve