Suns Vs Pistons game thread

[mribnik]

They really didn't call fouls against either team. They probably called more in the 4th qtr than the 1st 3 qtrs combined. It really favored Detroit's style of play though because it allowed them to hack the crap out of the suns all game long.
Amare did travel, but only because he was getting bumped and shoved by the Wallaces under the basket. Rasheed should've gotten a technical for charging the ref and screaming at him after the play.

Actually, if I recall correctly, 3 Pistons charged the refs after that play, with Rasheed doing most of the verbal abuse. Larry Brown was giving out his fair share as well. I thought for sure they were going to call a technical. Rasheed would have definately gotten a technical for that back in his Portland days.

 

[cly2tw]

The main reason we won: DA trusted the bench out of necessity. Most importantly, he rightly made JimJ handle the ball instead of Joe. As I said numerously on this board, we have good athletic players to play good defense to hang in there, we only needed to trust them for longer stretches without Nash.

Jim and Q were huge. They are the savvy and the fearless for this kind of really big games.

 

[mribnik]

The main reason we won: DA trusted the bench out of necessity. Most importantly, he rightly made JimJ handle the ball instead of Joe. As I said numerously on this board, we have good athletic players to play good defense to hang in there, we only needed to trust them for longer stretches without Nash.

Jim and Q were huge. They are the savvy and the fearless for this kind of really big games.

I loved that defense JJ played on prince toward the end of the game. He manned him up good. We can definately play tough defense, we just choose not to. It sucks that we don't do it all the time, but at least we are capable. Hopefully we can improve some...

 

[arthurracoon]

Guess who had the rebounding edge in the Fourth Quarter...

Yea...The SUNS outrebounded the Pistons in the 4th.

 

[elindholm]

I had to TiVo the game, and since it ran long I missed the last four minutes. This is driving me crazy! I guess I need to record the game and whatever show comes on afterward if I really want to be able to see it.

Great to see that the Suns won. They had just taken the lead when my recording ran out, so I was optimistic. I thought Jackson was the key in the first half of the fourth quarter: he basically ran the offense (instead of Barbosa), was effective in doing so, and also got a key rebound here and there.

Oh how I wish this team would take the defensive glass seriously. I guess it's never going to happen.

 

[jbeecham]

Oh how I wish this team would take the defensive glass seriously. I guess it's never going to happen.

They really struggled when Amare & Shawn were defending the Wallaces. Shawn doesn't box out and Amare doesn't always box out. There was one play where the Pistons got 4 offensive rebounds before they scored and Amare was the only Sun in the picture.

This game was played at the Pistons pace so the Suns really needed to send all 5 guys to the defensive glass to secure the rebound since they weren't able to run anyways. It seemed like they did this a little better in the 4th qtr and that really helped the rebounding and stopped the 2nd chance points that Detroit was killing us with.

 

[Chaplin]

Great game, very exciting 4th quarter--probably the best 4th quarter we've played all season against the elite teams.

However, I know everyone is really happy about Steve Hunter's 10 points on 4-of-4 shooting, but for a defensive "presence", he was nowhere to be seen. That was my most major gripe in this game, besides Marion's missing of simple layups--Hunter's complete inability to defend. We've seen it before, but luckily his offensive output helped lessen the blow.

 

[George O'Brien]

Great game, very exciting 4th quarter--probably the best 4th quarter we've played all season against the elite teams.

However, I know everyone is really happy about Steve Hunter's 10 points on 4-of-4 shooting, but for a defensive "presence", he was nowhere to be seen. That was my most major gripe in this game, besides Marion's missing of simple layups--Hunter's complete inability to defend. We've seen it before, but luckily his offensive output helped lessen the blow.

Hunter seems to be the most effective when he is playing low post guys, but seems to have problems when he has to deal with switches and rotations.

BTW, I think one of the problems Hunter has is that he is too skinny. He is listed at 240 and I'm not sure that is too far off. This really holds him back when fighting for rebounds. He is just not physical enough. I don't know how much they can work on him getting bigger, but I think he will need to become a lot stronger if he is going to become more than a role player.

 

[jbeecham]

Hunter got abused by turn-around fade-away jumpers by McDyess, but I didn't think he was too bad besides that. Hunter got a hand in his face every time and McDyess hit tough shots over his outstretched arms.

 

[elindholm]

I'm more concerned about Marion getting completely outplayed by Rasheed Wallace, in basically every phase of the game. It was a brutal mismatch.

But hey, a win is a win, so whatever.

 

[Cheesebeef]

unbelievable win. I completely wrote us off mid-third (as those in the chat room can tell you), but man did we nut up at the end. The bench won us this game, plain and simple - Barbosa, JJ and Hunter all turned up the dfensive intensity to begin the fourth and ALL madehuge plays on offense. Sick game - seemed like a playoff game.

Oh - and Steven Nash has HUGE CAJONES! That step back three was SICK! Absolutely SCIK!

My on;y gripe is how mentally Soft Marion is, but I won't bitch about that tonight - too good of a win! Huge win boys - huge win! If we split the next Seattle/San Antonio riff, I'll REALLY start believing this squad has what it takes.

 

[AZZenny]

Curious - I was at the game, and it seemed like the fans were REALLY Loud in the last quarter - did it come across on the tube? I've never seen the place as fired up in the dozen or so games I've been to.

I thought this was a very good win - it looked to my untrained eye like we were manhandled a lot, but by the 4th Q we were doing more of our own leaning and pushing.

Steve Nash not only has Brass, he makes the game so freaking beautiful sometimes. You just have to jump up and yelp with pleasure at some of the moves he makes to his teammates.

 

[arthurracoon]

Curious - I was at the game, and it seemed like the fans were REALLY Loud in the last quarter - did it come across on the tube? I've never seen the place as fired up in the dozen or so games I've been to.

Yup. and on the radio!

 

[Errntknght]

Chaplin, "However, I know everyone is really happy about Steve Hunter's 10 points on 4-of-4 shooting, but for a defensive "presence", he was nowhere to be seen. That was my most major gripe in this game"

I have to disagree with you, I thought Hunter played a good defensive game - not great but good. I went back and replayed the parts of the game when he was in just to make sure it wasn't an illusion the first time through. McDyess hit two fall away jumpers over him but Antonio was hitting them over whoever guarded him - Steven got him to miss one and another time he made him double clutch which Amare then blocked. The main thing he did was help on anyone who penetrated and changed several shots besides blocking one or two. Helping, he cut Rasheed off on the baseline who then threw the ball away and his help on Arroyo forced a travel. A couple of times the penetrator just gave up without shooting. He also tipped rebounds out for his teammates to gather up.

His most glaring error, which Doug Collins pointed out, was being slow to rotate to Rasheed when Amare left him to double a guard. Actually, I'd say Amare made a worse mistake in leaving him because Hunter was then alone with Rasheed and McDyess near the hoop - if he's going to double in that situation he needs to make sure the guard doesn't have a passing lane to the man he's leaving.

The guy who was hapless on defense was McCarty and Detroit went right at him almost every possession.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

I had to TiVo the game, and since it ran long I missed the last four minutes. This is driving me crazy! I guess I need to record the game and whatever show comes on afterward if I really want to be able to see it.

Great to see that the Suns won. They had just taken the lead when my recording ran out, so I was optimistic. I thought Jackson was the key in the first half of the fourth quarter: he basically ran the offense (instead of Barbosa), was effective in doing so, and also got a key rebound here and there.

Oh how I wish this team would take the defensive glass seriously. I guess it's never going to happen.

You can pad your recording on Tivo to go for another minute, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, 2 hours, etc.

I always do another hour on Suns games.

Mike

 

[Joe Mama]

Hunter got abused by turn-around fade-away jumpers by McDyess, but I didn't think he was too bad besides that. Hunter got a hand in his face every time and McDyess hit tough shots over his outstretched arms.

That's the way I saw it too. He made a mistake or two, but I thought Hunter's defense was invaluable during that comeback. Amare Stoudemire still frustrates me to no end on defense and the glass. He doesn't have the greatest fundamentals, but he is fully capable of playing effectively. He just doesn't focus. I can't tell you how many times I saw him put a half-assed body on his man only to have that player go right around him for the board. The entire Suns team has a terrible habit of getting pushed under the basket instead of boxing out. Half the time they aren't even pushed. They all just play too close to the basket for the rebound.

Joe Johnson had a very good defensive game. The bench really stepped up. I find it hard to complain about Shawn Marion since he was playing a guy so much bigger than him. I mean there is no doubt that Rasheed Wallace has the size and talent to be one of the best power forwards in the game. offensively he didn't have the greatest game, but that's to be expected from time to time.

I'm more concerned about Marion getting completely outplayed by Rasheed Wallace, in basically every phase of the game. It was a brutal mismatch.

But hey, a win is a win, so whatever.

That's right. Rasheed Wallace must have at least a 10" reach advantage. He is so versatile and talented on both ends of the court. He really gave Shawn Marion a hard time. He also defended Amare Stoudemire as well as anyone has this season several times last night.

You can pad your recording on Tivo to go for another minute, 5 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, 2 hours, etc.

I always do another hour on Suns games.

Mike

oh yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've missed the end of a show or a game. Now I pad almost everything I record.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Okay, thanks Mike and Joe for the padding advice. I don't even know how to do that, but I should be able to figure it out.

I even screwed it up for the Super Bowl, LOL.

 

[Wally]

Chaplin, "However, I know everyone is really happy about Steve Hunter's 10 points on 4-of-4 shooting, but for a defensive "presence", he was nowhere to be seen. That was my most major gripe in this game"

I have to disagree with you, I thought Hunter played a good defensive game - not great but good. I went back and replayed the parts of the game when he was in just to make sure it wasn't an illusion the first time through. McDyess hit two fall away jumpers over him but Antonio was hitting them over whoever guarded him - Steven got him to miss one and another time he made him double clutch which Amare then blocked. The main thing he did was help on anyone who penetrated and changed several shots besides blocking one or two. Helping, he cut Rasheed off on the baseline who then threw the ball away and his help on Arroyo forced a travel. A couple of times the penetrator just gave up without shooting. He also tipped rebounds out for his teammates to gather up.

His most glaring error, which Doug Collins pointed out, was being slow to rotate to Rasheed when Amare left him to double a guard. Actually, I'd say Amare made a worse mistake in leaving him because Hunter was then alone with Rasheed and McDyess near the hoop - if he's going to double in that situation he needs to make sure the guard doesn't have a passing lane to the man he's leaving.

The guy who was hapless on defense was McCarty and Detroit went right at him almost every possession.

I agree 100 %. I really believe that only reason the Suns got back in this game was that Hunter AND Amare were in the game at the SAME time. Hunter doesn't always get the rebound; Amare doesn't always get the rebound; but, the TEAM seems to allways get more rebounds when they are BOTH on the floor at the SAME time.

 

[playstation]

i'm going to say it: the suns were outplayed yesterday. i'm sorry, but getting destroyed on the offensive boards like that in a meaningful game is not a good sign. i chose to believe prior to last night that the suns could turn it on when they wanted to, and some of you may say that they did just that in the 4th qtr, but for the bulk of that game they were outplayed. this team is looking more and more like the mavs: capable of beating anyone, but not consistently beating the elite teams.

don't get me wrong, a second round exit is still a successful season imo, and hopefully we can pick up an enforcer in the offseason, but i just wish some of the rebounding fundamentals would be espoused more by the coaching staff. i mean, its tough enough that we have an inexperienced team, but do we really need our green coach to make coaching mistake after coaching mistake (aka 'stoudemire fouling out was my fault, i wasn't paying attention to the game...')? it seems like the best thing he did this season was to NOT coach, and just let nash make the decisions!

 

[sunsfn]

A great win by the suns.

This has to be one of the strangest box scores we will see from this team.
Amare only had one free throw that he missed after a field goal. Hunter was 2 for 3. The suns were 9 for 14 and Amare usually has that many himself.
The refs let them play!

Barbosa only took 2 shots in 14 minutes.
Jim Jackson was 1 for 2 in shots taken, but I swear that I saw him make two shots just outside the free throw line....?

We got 14 points from the bench, so Hunters 10 points were big in this game.

 

[JPlay]

i'm going to say it: the suns were outplayed yesterday. i'm sorry, but getting destroyed on the offensive boards like that in a meaningful game is not a good sign. i chose to believe prior to last night that the suns could turn it on when they wanted to, and some of you may say that they did just that in the 4th qtr, but for the bulk of that game they were outplayed. this team is looking more and more like the mavs: capable of beating anyone, but not consistently beating the elite teams.

don't get me wrong, a second round exit is still a successful season imo, and hopefully we can pick up an enforcer in the offseason, but i just wish some of the rebounding fundamentals would be espoused more by the coaching staff. i mean, its tough enough that we have an inexperienced team, but do we really need our green coach to make coaching mistake after coaching mistake (aka 'stoudemire fouling out was my fault, i wasn't paying attention to the game...')? it seems like the best thing he did this season was to NOT coach, and just let nash make the decisions!

I wouldn't say they got dominated. They won the game. This team isn't built around rebounding and defense, they are built around offense and 3pt shooting. The difference between the Suns and the Mavs of past is Amare Stoudemire. The Suns are 1st in the league with Points in the Paint. We have a post presence and have athletic players. Our problem is that we play small ball even against large teams. The Suns and Shawn Marion struggle when he has to guard a legitimate 4. As you can see Shawn can't get a shot to drop and he gets his shot blocked a lot. D'Antoni won't adjust his lineup in those situation, however I think he should with the second unit. Putting in both Hunter and Amare helped a lot last night and more minutes by JJax was critical. I think the Suns made a lot of progress especially with the lineups that were put out there. I think they learned that they can't always play small against great rebounding teams.

 

[Chaplin]

Oh well, I knew I'd get slammed for my Hunter comments since this board loves him so much. And sure, there were a few times where he did some good, but most of the time he was worthless--he didn't prevent any driving into the lane--Rip and Chauncey were doing it all night. Especially Rip.

 

[SweetD]

Oh well, I knew I'd get slammed for my Hunter comments since this board loves him so much. And sure, there were a few times where he did some good, but most of the time he was worthless--he didn't prevent any driving into the lane--Rip and Chauncey were doing it all night. Especially Rip.

I have to agree with you. But I did have an issue as to why it took Mike so long to use Hunter and Amare at the same time. It cut down on the 2nd chance rebounds almost instantly. Plus I also got to meet Robert Sarver last night. Great game and looks like the playoffs will still be tough.

 

[George O'Brien]

Oh well, I knew I'd get slammed for my Hunter comments since this board loves him so much. And sure, there were a few times where he did some good, but most of the time he was worthless--he didn't prevent any driving into the lane--Rip and Chauncey were doing it all night. Especially Rip.

D'Antoni says that the Suns don't communicate well enough on defense. The result is that guys end up getting fixated on their own man, but tend to be late on their rotations.

Personally, I think the Suns need to learn how to play zone against teams that are not great outside shooting teams, like the Pistons. I'd just put Hunter near the basket and dare people to try to make layups over him. This doesn't work against good outside shooting teams, but it might be a useful option.

 

[SweetD]

D'Antoni says that the Suns don't communicate well enough on defense. The result is that guys end up getting fixated on their own man, but tend to be late on their rotations.

Personally, I think the Suns need to learn how to play zone against teams that are not great outside shooting teams, like the Pistons. I'd just put Hunter near the basket and dare people to try to make layups over him. This doesn't work against good outside shooting teams, but it might be a useful option.

Plus they need to stop double teaming everyone! If they didn't double team they could get the rebounds and there wouldn't be so many wide open layups.