Suns @ Warriors Tuesday game thread 5-11-2021

[Russ Smith]

I'm not surprised Ayton struggled on D there's nobody on the Warriors he can guard we have no bigs so he's guarding Draymond or Toscano Anderson. Be glad Paschall can't play or they would have given him the ball and let him go around Ayton, he's gotten really good at doing that.

The surprise was the Suns didn't exploit that at the other end when Ayton is 6 inches taller than the guy guarding him. But Booker and Paul were cooking so I guess they went with that.

The scheme was obvious, make Curry work his butt off at both ends, double him, have help, and make him work on defense. It honestly worked he shot poorly and got so frustrated that late in the game he pushed off Bridges underneath and got away with it for an And 1. You don't normally see him do that he knows there's so much attention on him from defenses that if he does that the ref will probably see it. But he was frustrated.

But maybe they tried TOO hard to wear down Curry and ignored the obvious mismatch Ayton had?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I said it -- if Ayton is missing or not playing well, I still think we are NOT a below average team. At worst without Ayton we are average. We've had to play more with a bad Ayton this year than with a good one and we have won 40 games.

I disagree. I think we've had an impactful Ayton for more than half the games. Not every moment of those games but he's played hard enough often enough to have us in the top 5 defenses for most of the season.

So, it seems that I think much higher of Ayton's impact than you do when he's giving at least decent effort for key stretches of a game and much worse of him when he's the walking dead from the start to the finish.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not surprised Ayton struggled on D there's nobody on the Warriors he can guard we have no bigs so he's guarding Draymond or Toscano Anderson. Be glad Paschall can't play or they would have given him the ball and let him go around Ayton, he's gotten really good at doing that.

The surprise was the Suns didn't exploit that at the other end when Ayton is 6 inches taller than the guy guarding him. But Booker and Paul were cooking so I guess they went with that.

The scheme was obvious, make Curry work his butt off at both ends, double him, have help, and make him work on defense. It honestly worked he shot poorly and got so frustrated that late in the game he pushed off Bridges underneath and got away with it for an And 1. You don't normally see him do that he knows there's so much attention on him from defenses that if he does that the ref will probably see it. But he was frustrated.

But maybe they tried TOO hard to wear down Curry and ignored the obvious mismatch Ayton had?

Ayton seems to disappear some games and doesn't make himself available offensively or defensively. Last night was one of those nights where he had the clear height advantage. The Suns don't forget about him but when he is not active hence the frustration.

 

[GatorAZ]

We can't forget the Suns have the second best record in the NBA and a winning percentage of .696.

It’s a May/June league though.

 

[Mainstreet]

It’s a May/June league though.

Of course, but after 10-11 years of not making the playoffs it's always good to put things in perspective.

 

[Chaplin]

I disagree. I think we've had an impactful Ayton for more than half the games. Not every moment of those games but he's played hard enough often enough to have us in the top 5 defenses for most of the season.

So, it seems that I think much higher of Ayton's impact than you do when he's giving at least decent effort for key stretches of a game and much worse of him when he's the walking dead from the start to the finish.

That sounds accurate. But it's no big deal. We disagree.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think he is both.

Here is what I mean. Ayton's production is largely a function of how well the team feeds him the ball.

I don't really see how anyone can argue with that - he creates ZERO offense for himself. Maybe 5 times a season he will take the ball from the top of the key and attempt to make a move towards the basket.

ALL of his offense either comes from pick and roll, feeding him in the post, or offensive put backs.

He hit 4 of 5 shots in last nights game. He did not play badly offensively - he just did not get the ball.

His defensive effort is really only noticable when he is facing a team that has a post up threat, or likes to slash to the basket a lot.

Golden state last night primarily just shot jump shots, or posted up wiggins. Of course he did not have much impact last night.

Hmm, I think you’re off on two items:

1. Ayton could remedy his touches if he learned how to effectively post up. It’s been pointed out all season how somehow saric and kaminsky are capable of establishing post position, sealing defenders, and catching passes. But Ayton not only can’t, he rarely makes an attempt to do so.

2. there were a LOT of layups last night. I mean look at the shot chart from last night quarter by quarter. https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401307848

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’ve already addressed this time and time again.

like I said if he’s the reason we suck when he’s not playing well then he’s the reason we’re good to right


But nope it’s well um if he plays like this or like that and if it’s a full moon on Sunday and the wind blows towards the East lol


I hold Booker to a higher standard than Ayton if you don’t and you see them as equals well then I don’t see a bright future for this team and why are we even having this conversation

You aren’t putting anything accurately. I explained my perceptions of Ayton’s impact on our teams success likely more precisely than anyone on the board at this point.

and I do hold book to a higher standard than Ayton. You don’t hold Ayton to any standard.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

wha? They dominated the glass and scored 62 points in the paint. Both areas that Ayton should at LEAST make an impact considering he’s bigger than everyone on the court. He was also atrocious on switches, barely even putting effort in to contest at the end of the game.

and You can’t feed a guy on offense who takes himself out of it most of the time.

Exactly. There’s no one on the warriors that played last night remotely close to Ayton’s size and yet how many times can anyone recall him making himself effectively available in the post? Um I can’t recall many if any.

 

[Finito]

You aren’t putting anything accurately. I explained my perceptions of Ayton’s impact on our teams success likely more precisely than anyone on the board at this point.

and I do hold book to a higher standard than Ayton. You don’t hold Ayton to any standard.

Because he’s not worth it. I can’t make him care. I can’t get worked up caring more than he does.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Because he’s not worth it. I can’t make him care. I can’t get worked up caring more than he does.

You also can’t calm Booker down when he goes mental. But you choose to worked up about it. Same thing. You’ve got a blind spot here.

 

[Hoop Head]

How often does Booker go mental and it cost us a game? How often does Ayton sleepwalk through a game which also costs us games? You don't need to watch often see Ayton disappears far more often than Booker gets heated.

Also Booker getting mad doesn't always hurt us, some nights it gets the whole team fired up. When Ayton decides he doesn't feel like playing, it hurts everyone else because they have to try and cover his position as well as their own.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Jazz really tried to hand us the 1 seed and we just pissed it away.

 

[Finito]

You also can’t calm Booker down when he goes mental. But you choose to worked up about it. Same thing. You’ve got a blind spot here.

I don’t get worked up about Booker at all. Every once in awhile I’ll mention Booker at the end of games making bonehead choices or him letting his emotions get the better of him. Again I hold Booker and Ayton to two different standards.

but if your honestly trying to compare how I talk about Booker to how you two talk about Ayton your crazy.

seriously just to any Suns thread where we have lost and just count the Ayton post. I legitimately don’t even think you know how much you do it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Jazz really tried to hand us the 1 seed and we just pissed it away.

And with 4 games left I'm not sure we're done emptying our bladder just yet.

 

[Finito]

And with 4 games left I'm not sure we're done emptying our bladder just yet.

Isn’t it 3

Blazers
Spurs
Spurs

 

[AzStevenCal]

Isn’t it 3

Blazers
Spurs
Spurs

Nobody told me there'd be a math quiz. Damn. And yes, 3 games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And with 4 games left I'm not sure we're done emptying our bladder just yet.

Yeahhhhh... we’re stumbling bumbling fumbling toward the finish line here.

wouldn’t be the worst thing that if we were pissing away the 1 seed, to also piss away the 2 seed as well at this point. The Lakers are pretty stuck at 7/8 and although I think Portland has a solid shot to beat us in a series, I’d give us at least a punchers chance there as opposed to the Lakers.

 

[gimpy]

It would be nice if they can turn it around, and win out.

 

[Finito]

Yeahhhhh... we’re stumbling bumbling fumbling toward the finish line here.

wouldn’t be the worst thing that if we were pissing away the 1 seed, to also piss away the 2 seed as well at this point. The Lakers are pretty stuck at 7/8 and although I think Portland has a solid shot to beat us in a series, I’d give us at least a punchers chance there as opposed to the Lakers.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 1 and done from this team.

however we are definitely moving in the right direction

 

[Hoop Head]

Losing to the Warriors isn't that bad since it keeps the Warriors at 8 ahead of Memphis. If the Lakers finish 7 then the Warriors at 8 is the best possible opponent to knock them to 8.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t get worked up about Booker at all. Every once in awhile I’ll mention Booker at the end of games making bonehead choices or him letting his emotions get the better of him. Again I hold Booker and Ayton to two different standards.

but if your honestly trying to compare how I talk about Booker to how you two talk about Ayton your crazy.

seriously just to any Suns thread where we have lost and just count the Ayton post. I legitimately don’t even think you know how much you do it.

Oh no, I’m acutely aware of it bc I never had any other suns player who so consistently and maddeningly earns my ire. And this may make your head spin, but I find myself actively holding back from some of criticism of him lately for the sake of the board. That’s how outrageously disappointing he is.

 

[Finito]

Oh no, I’m acutely aware of it bc I never had any other suns player who so consistently and maddeningly earns my ire. And this may make your head spin, but I find myself actively holding back from some of criticism of him lately for the sake of the board. That’s how outrageously disappointing he is.

biggest number 1 bust of all time?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

biggest number 1 bust of all time?

No. Bc I don’t think he’s a bust. Bedford, josh Jackson, Alex Len are probably biggest busts. They just weren’t good enough for their draft position. But biggest disappointment to this date in his career, it’s Ayton. He’s flashed ability to be MUCH better than he is. But he doesn’t maintain it. And when he performs poorly it’s generally not because he’s forced into poor performance, it’s bc he just doesn’t show up or give effort. That’s the definition of disappointment.

 

[Mainstreet]

Anthony Bennett might be considered the worst #1 pick.