Suns workout Koufas again

[nowagimp]

Maybe Lampe but I think more of a weaker version of Brad Miller. He has ZERO vert and that's going to be an issue IMO.

Koufos supposedly has a 36" vert, better than all the other big men in the draft and some of the swings. I keep thinking this must be a mistake.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...ry?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080625

No question that a 36" vertical for a 7 footer is a very good vertical.

 

[Mainstreet]

Koufos supposedly has a 36" vert, better than all the other big men in the draft and some of the swings. I keep thinking this must be a mistake.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...ry?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftWatch-080625

No question that a 36" vertical for a 7 footer is a very good vertical.

He's the pick I want for the Suns. I'm not sure about his vertical leap but at 7' I'm not overly concerned. Think Okur except with better moves around the basket. I also liken his game to Divac when he first entered the league.

 

[CardinalsFan11]

He's the pick I want for the Suns. I'm not sure about his vertical leap but at 7' I'm not overly concerned. Think Okur except with better moves around the basket. I also liken his game to Divac when he first entered the league.

He might be good to help spread the floor on the offensive end. But I think his poor rebounding and defense outweigh what he might give you on the offensive end.

I'd much rather go after a guy like DeVon Hardin in the late first or early second stage to try and bring the rebounding and physical play that Amare doesn't seem to want to play with at times

 

[HooverDam]

He might be good to help spread the floor on the offensive end. But I think his poor rebounding and defense outweigh what he might give you on the offensive end.

I'd much rather go after a guy like DeVon Hardin in the late first or early second stage to try and bring the rebounding and physical play that Amare doesn't seem to want to play with at times

Agreed. I watched Pac10 basketball all season, I'd love to get DeVon Hardin, especially in the early 2nd round w/ a non guaranteed deal.

 

[Joe Mama]

Trading this years 'own' pick plays no role - the rule is that you can't put yourself in a position on not having a first round draft pick in two consecutive future years. It doesn't matter whether the pick is your own or not and since we have a first rounder this year we're covered.

Of course, we can't trade next years pick because of 2010 unless we get hold of someone's 1st rounder in 2009 or 10.

All they have to do is pick somebody for another team and then trade. For the most part that rule is easily circumvented.

Joe

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

36" vert?! hot damn

 

[CardinalsFan11]

36" vert?! hot damn

36" vert doesn't mean much if you're too scared to get into the middle and mix it up.

 

[nowagimp]

He's the pick I want for the Suns. I'm not sure about his vertical leap but at 7' I'm not overly concerned. Think Okur except with better moves around the basket. I also liken his game to Divac when he first entered the league.

The suns need to keep saying "skita skita, darko, darko" to the media lest some other team figure it out. I read about him earlier in the year, but he kind of disappeared from the scrutiny of sports writers. If he's 7' tall has a developed offensive game and has a 36" vertical, he's likely a sleeper in this draft. I really like the idea of rush for the spacing, but if the suns could get a shooter or two another way, this kid could get some PT as a backup to shaq. How many games will the shaqster play next year? There is some serious development time there for a backup center. I just dont want anymore wishful thinking on bigs, like the "two jakes", etc,.

 

[Mainstreet]

He might be good to help spread the floor on the offensive end. But I think his poor rebounding and defense outweigh what he might give you on the offensive end.

I'd much rather go after a guy like DeVon Hardin in the late first or early second stage to try and bring the rebounding and physical play that Amare doesn't seem to want to play with at times

I know what you are saying, but Koufos is only 19. This kid has a lot of room for growth. IMO, you pick a player on the skills they already have (I do not consider him raw offensively) and work on the rest of his game as he develops. If he were a compete player already he would be in the lottery. Already some are rating him higher than #15.

 

[CardinalsFan11]

I know what you are saying, but Koufos is only 19. This kid has a lot of room for growth. IMO, you pick a player on the skills they already have (I do not consider him raw offensively) and work on the rest of his game as he develops. If he were a compete player already he would be in the lottery. Already some are rating him higher than #15.

I understand what you're saying; and I wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted Koufos. He has the offensive tools to be a lottery pick.

I would just prefer that the Suns draft a big man with a little bit of a mean streak with the desire to rebound and play defense

 

[Mainstreet]

The suns need to keep saying "skita skita, darko, darko" to the media lest some other team figure it out. I read about him earlier in the year, but he kind of disappeared from the scrutiny of sports writers. If he's 7' tall has a developed offensive game and has a 36" vertical, he's likely a sleeper in this draft. I really like the idea of rush for the spacing, but if the suns could get a shooter or two another way, this kid could get some PT as a backup to shaq. How many games will the shaqster play next year? There is some serious development time there for a backup center. I just dont want anymore wishful thinking on bigs, like the "two jakes", etc,.

I take it you're being a bit sarcastic.

IMO, when talking about Koufos, one should be comparing him to Okur, Divac or a better skilled version of Brad Miller. The Suns passed on Divac in the draft because they had a bad experience with George Glouskov (sp) earlier. That was a big mistake they made when evaluating Divac.

 

[Irish]

Koufos was born in Greece, but was raised in Canton Hio and went to Ohio State. Because of his birth he can play on the Greek Team, but he's not a European trained player and I it is silly to think in those terms. He's another "one and done" college guy barely out of HS.

He is a 7'1" guy with a 36" verticle who averaged 6.7 rpg. Joey Dorsey is 6'7.5" in shoes and a 33" verticle, he averaged 9.5 rpg.

Koufus is supposed to be a good outside shooter (looked great in workouts), but hit only 34.9% for three. He only hit 68% of his free throws.

There are a lot of college players who don't transfer their skills to the NBA. But when drafting success, you have something to measure and account for. But Koufos was generally viewed as disappointing after all the hype he had prior to the season.

I know, SOMEDAY,etc., etc. But I fear he's another workout marvel like Lampe.

 

[hafey]

I like Koufos. I see a guy with legit center size that can move around and shoot from outside. I think the Okur comparison is very apt.

Like most of the guys in the 10-20 range of this draft, Koufos has great upside and tools, but won't contribute much next year. He would need developing just like Greene, Randolph, Jordan.

 

[elindholm]

He's a lot more mobile than Okur. Offensively he is actually similar to Garnett. Defensively, more like Stoudemire, gambling for blocks and not much else.

I just watched his highlight clip on nbadraft.net. It's hilarious to watch a 7-foot lily white beanpole shooting 20-foot jumpers to a gangsta rap soundtrack. I highly recommend it.

 

[Irish]

I just watched his highlight clip on nbadraft.net. It's hilarious to watch a 7-foot lily white beanpole shooting 20-foot jumpers to a gangsta rap soundtrack. I highly recommend it.

A product of the "mean streets of Canton".

 

[nowagimp]

Koufos was born in Greece, but was raised in Canton Hio and went to Ohio State. Because of his birth he can play on the Greek Team, but he's not a European trained player and I it is silly to think in those terms. He's another "one and done" college guy barely out of HS.

He is a 7'1" guy with a 36" verticle who averaged 6.7 rpg. Joey Dorsey is 6'7.5" in shoes and a 33" verticle, he averaged 9.5 rpg.

Koufus is supposed to be a good outside shooter (looked great in workouts), but hit only 34.9% for three. He only hit 68% of his free throws.

There are a lot of college players who don't transfer their skills to the NBA. But when drafting success, you have something to measure and account for. But Koufos was generally viewed as disappointing after all the hype he had prior to the season.

I know, SOMEDAY,etc., etc. But I fear he's another workout marvel like Lampe.

Dorsey has a karl malone body with a great wingspan, he has the tools to be a good rebounder, perhaps a PF defender, but much not much else. Any big man who is an outside shooter does not train as much for strength, and on offense is generally not in position to rebound. Most 19 year olds are skinny, its the rare one that has put on real muscle by 19. By 23-24 they fill out, then you will know how they will be. The reason I like Koufos is for the outside shot as it would be comnplementary to amare by pulling a big out of the lane to give amare operating room. I think his 3pt% is a function of the PG he plays with and the buckeyes lost conley last year to the NBA so Im not sure it reflects his ability. I'd rather have TT for now, but Koufos might be a good choice for the future if the suns can pick up some help in the other critical needs. The suns may not have a pick as low as this for several years, so they should consider that as well.

 

[Irish]

Obviously Dorsey is a second round pick and Koufos a mid first (I'm guessing the Warriors or Sixers).

The real issue is how soon a guy will produce. I have zero patience for proposals to blow up the team and start over because this team will only win 60 games and might get beaten in the playoffs. I remember how long it took the Bulls to rebuild and now they are looking to do it again. Is THAT the future everyone is so anxious to go for? Count me out.

My attitude on projects has been the same for a long time. I hate projects. I hate the idea of taking guys who are not physically ready to play NBA basketball, only because we HOPE they will be good someday.

The future is NOW. Unless one of the "skilled" guys is going to be better than Marks would be, I'm not interested. After waiting for Big Jake (slow) Zarko (soft) and Lampe (lazy), I swore off these promising guys who aren't physically up to the task on the "someday they'll be really good".

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Obviously Dorsey is a second round pick and Koufos a mid first (I'm guessing the Warriors or Sixers).

The real issue is how soon a guy will produce. I have zero patience for proposals to blow up the team and start over because this team will only win 60 games and might get beaten in the playoffs. I remember how long it took the Bulls to rebuild and now they are looking to do it again. Is THAT the future everyone is so anxious to go for? Count me out.

My attitude on projects has been the same for a long time. I hate projects. I hate the idea of taking guys who are not physically ready to play NBA basketball, only because we HOPE they will be good someday.

The future is NOW. Unless one of the "skilled" guys is going to be better than Marks would be, I'm not interested. After waiting for Big Jake (slow) Zarko (soft) and Lampe (lazy), I swore off these promising guys who aren't physically up to the task on the "someday they'll be really good".

Sorry that some people here are realistic. A lot of stuff has to go in our favor for us to be in contention for a ring next year. While it COULD happen, its not probable.

You brought up the Bulls rebuilding but that was a entirely different situation. They had there best two players retire or sign elsewhere and there hall of fame coach leave too. They didnt have the opportunity to trade there assets and certainly didnt have a guy like Amare to build around.

You say you hate projects but that is exactly what Amare was considered when he came out. Amare was raw and actually projected to be a defensive guy like Ben Wallace.

Barbosa was also a project but I guess you hate him too.

 

[Irish]

You say you hate projects but that is exactly what Amare was considered when he came out. Amare was raw and actually projected to be a defensive guy like Ben Wallace.

Barbosa was also a project but I guess you hate him too.

Giving up is not realistic.

Amare was physically ready from day one. Stand Amare at the same age next to these soft bigs under consideration and the truth would be obvious. Amare was physically a MAN. He relished contact and intimidated NBA opponents right out of the box. If his family background had not been so dicy, he'd have gone #2 that year. Calling Amare a project was strickly skills, but skills are a lot easier to teach than to get his physical skills and attitude.

IMHO, Beasley is the only guy with Amare's type of physical skills and I do NOT think Beasley is a project.

Also, taking Barbosa at the end of the first round was not a huge gamble. It only cost the Suns a highly protected future first round pick.

In any case, you can afford to gamble when you have an awful team and the Suns are not an awful team. They didn't get the #15 because of bad play. As it was, take away Hill's injury and a fluke three pointer by Duncan and that series might have gone very differently.

Disappointment is not the same as realism nor a justification for sounding like a Laker fan. If Donald said the Suns have no chance of winning and should blow up the team, we'd rightly call him a troll. Exactly how does sounding like a Laker troll make you "realistic?"

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Giving up is not realistic.

Amare was physically ready from day one. Stand Amare at the same age next to these soft bigs under consideration and the truth would be obvious. Amare was physically a MAN. He relished contact and intimidated NBA opponents right out of the box. If his family background had not been so dicy, he'd have gone #2 that year. Calling Amare a project was strickly skills, but skills are a lot easier to teach than to get his physical skills and attitude.

IMHO, Beasley is the only guy with Amare's type of physical skills and I do NOT think Beasley is a project.

Also, taking Barbosa at the end of the first round was not a huge gamble. It only cost the Suns a highly protected future first round pick.

In any case, you can afford to gamble when you have an awful team and the Suns are not an awful team. They didn't get the #15 because of bad play. As it was, take away Hill's injury and a fluke three pointer by Duncan and that series might have gone very differently.

Disappointment is not the same as realism nor a justification for sounding like a Laker fan. If Donald said the Suns have no chance of winning and should blow up the team, we'd rightly call him a troll. Exactly how does sounding like a Laker troll make you "realistic?"

Did I say we have no chance? No I said its not probable. Amare was physically ready but you said project and thats what hes considered. If you meant a physical project you should have been more specific. Amare also wouldnt have went number 2 no matter what. You had guys like Jay Williams and Mike Dunleavy who were proven college stars with potential not to mention the fact that general managers had just dealt with high school stars that were looking like busts and no way he would have went 2nd.

The thing is you can afford to gamble when you have a good team. Bad teams arent suppose to gamble because if the importance of teh draft pick. If a good team drafts a project and he doesnt turn out, its ok because your team will still be good. Thats why you see San Antonio drafting these foreigners and letting them sit in Europe for a couple years to develop.

There will always be some sort of a excuse for Suns fans. If its not JJ getting injured in 04-05 its Bell getting injured in 05-06 or Amare and Diaw getting suspended last year. **** happens and thats all part of the game.

Im beyond disappointed now. I'm thinking realistic and about building for the future which is something the SUns have neglected to do in the past few years. Whats sad is you compare me to a Lakers fan because I'm not drinking the kool-aid like you.

 

[Irish]

I hate the idea of taking guys who are not physically ready to play NBA basketball, only because we HOPE they will be good someday.

How much more specific should I have been?

 

[nowagimp]

Obviously Dorsey is a second round pick and Koufos a mid first (I'm guessing the Warriors or Sixers).

The real issue is how soon a guy will produce. I have zero patience for proposals to blow up the team and start over because this team will only win 60 games and might get beaten in the playoffs. I remember how long it took the Bulls to rebuild and now they are looking to do it again. Is THAT the future everyone is so anxious to go for? Count me out.

My attitude on projects has been the same for a long time. I hate projects. I hate the idea of taking guys who are not physically ready to play NBA basketball, only because we HOPE they will be good someday.

The future is NOW. Unless one of the "skilled" guys is going to be better than Marks would be, I'm not interested. After waiting for Big Jake (slow) Zarko (soft) and Lampe (lazy), I swore off these promising guys who aren't physically up to the task on the "someday they'll be really good".

Amare was a project, but a mental project. Im not sure a physical project is harder to develop than a mental one. What amare didint know about basketball as a rook was scary. No experience at all in a truly competitive setting. Amares knees and shaqs age, and the cheap cost of rookie contracts are compelling reasons for the suns to develop a big. Marion was a project, as was JJ. Perkins was a project for the celtics, bynum for the lakers. Teams that dont take on projects end up being old with alot of vet min players that know how to play, but cant guard the faster players or stay healthy. The suns need to go young, and not just a little. If DJ and tucker are gonna make it, thats a good start, but the odds arent great there. I'd prefer rush over any other pick likely available at #15, but he may not be there. If he isnt, I'd rather take a guy like koufas. With shaquille Oneil around, a young big might learn a whole lot in a hurry. And I also expect that shaq will kick the crap out of him if he plays too soft. Koufas is 7-1, 265 lbs at 19 years old. This kid could easily end up being 280-290 lbs. I wouldnt write him off as soft just yet.

 

[Chaplin]

Im beyond disappointed now. I'm thinking realistic and about building for the future which is something the SUns have neglected to do in the past few years. Whats sad is you compare me to a Lakers fan because I'm not drinking the kool-aid like you.

Please. Why does everyone who disagrees with someone who has a more positive outlook on the team resort to the junior high "kool-aid" reference?

What George said is essentially true. If a Laker fan came on the board and said the same things you've been saying, he'd be labeled a troll. And George certainly isn't shouting from the rooftops that we're going to win the title next year. He is saying, however, that there still is a chance, however small. The problem here is that those of you that disagree with that statement make it personal and turn it into a pissing contest.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Please. Why does everyone who disagrees with someone who has a more positive outlook on the team resort to the junior high "kool-aid" reference?

What George said is essentially true. If a Laker fan came on the board and said the same things you've been saying, he'd be labeled a troll. And George certainly isn't shouting from the rooftops that we're going to win the title next year. He is saying, however, that there still is a chance, however small. The problem here is that those of you that disagree with that statement make it personal and turn it into a pissing contest.

and you're not doing the same carrying it on chap? c'mon dude...

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Please. Why does everyone who disagrees with someone who has a more positive outlook on the team resort to the junior high "kool-aid" reference?

What George said is essentially true. If a Laker fan came on the board and said the same things you've been saying, he'd be labeled a troll. And George certainly isn't shouting from the rooftops that we're going to win the title next year. He is saying, however, that there still is a chance, however small. The problem here is that those of you that disagree with that statement make it personal and turn it into a pissing contest.

Could you be any more misguided. I already said the chance of us winning is small and I'm not the one who made it personal. If he wants to compare what I said to what a Lakers troll would say, I dont see anything wrong with me comparing what he said to someone drinking kool-aid.