Target JACKSON

[Raze]

Jackson would be my pick, assuming he can explain his off-court behavior/ issues, but this post is a bit too much. He does not have a "clear edge on everyone else". I do believe he is a good defender, but he is not as great of a defender as some suggest. He seems to gamble a bit too much, and staying in front of guys in the NBA is going to be more difficult. His free throw shooting is atrocious, and I am not sure how much of a shot blocker he will be on the next level. Again- he is my preferred pick, but he is by no means guaranteed to be anything better than Otto Porter.

I'm not sure what other people are suggesting about his D, or even who these people are. If "they" are saying he is an elite defender, they are wrong. Before I posted this I read a couple of scout's takes on his ability and they say he is versatile and a great defender. I think that's about spot on. But not elite. Like I said, he has to be stronger and commit to working on his footwork. He does gamble a bit, but not much more than other 20 year olds. He'll have to smooth the edges quite a bit to be elite. But the instinct is there. You can't teach that. Right now, he's a great SF prospect on D. Obviously, there's no guarantees. There never are.

And for the life of me I can't see why Ball and Fultz are ahead of Jackson.

Fultz drives me nuts when I watch him play. He's far too lackadaisical for my liking.
Forgetting the circus for a moment, Ball seems like the guy who wins you a lot of regular season games, but disappears when the post season becomes a half court contest.
As stated, my biggest knock on Fox is his size and passing. Love his passion.
Tatum just screams tweener and man I hate watching him "play" D.

I just don't see why the questions on Jackson (valid that they are) place him lower than the others. Again, I see him as the clear top prospect in this draft.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Again, I see him as the clear top prospect in this draft.

I don't see a "clear" top prospect in this draft. I just keep seeing flaw after flaw and that includes Fultz too. But I think it's too easy to just label Ball as a regular season stud and that's it. If he was truly playing injured throughout March we don't really know what he'll be in the tough games.

We can only hope that the upcoming interviews and workouts will reveal some truths about these guys. I worry about Jackson off the court obviously but I've been pushing back mostly against the people who are touting him as a great defender. Maybe when all is said and done he'll become that great defender but I don't think he's anything like that right now.

 

[sunsfan88]

I agree that Fox has potential to become a better shooter. He seems hungry enough to work on it. However he is not a natural passer. His first instinct is to score. His passing almost primarily comes within the flow of the O. Once he lowers his shoulders at the top of the key, he's 99% sold that he's gonna shoot. There are just few plays where he's being creative with the ball. I could see him being a lifetime 20 ppg guy, but only a 5 apg one. And those 5 assists will come by default because he HAS to play PG because he's too small to really play anywhere else. This is my biggest problem with him: small guys that don't pass don't make players around them better.

Quite frankly, that's how most top PGs in NBA today are. They look for their shot first and if it's not there they pass to the open guy.

Guys like Curry, Westbrook (despite his gaudy assist numbers), Lillard, Lowry, Harden, etc are all players who aren't natural playmakers like say Chris Paul or John Wall. But those guys still thrive just the same.

Imo Fox will develop his playmaking ability well in the pros.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think this board hugely overrates Bledsoe's trade value. He's a borderline top-12 PG -- and that's if you're being really generous -- who can't stay healthy. For how many teams in the league would he be a real upgrade?

no doubt he's playing at his peak... but I think his value suffers because while playing at his peek, he's still not someone who really moves the needle.

He's still worth a lottery pick in the draft. If guys like George Hill and Jrue Holliday can be traded for lottery picks then Bledsoe can definitely net a lottery pick in a draft day trade too.

 

[Raze]

Quite frankly, that's how most top PGs in NBA today are. They look for their shot first and if it's not there they pass to the open guy.

Guys like Curry, Westbrook (despite his gaudy assist numbers), Lillard, Lowry, Harden, etc are all players who aren't natural playmakers like say Chris Paul or John Wall. But those guys still thrive just the same.

Imo Fox will develop his playmaking ability well in the pros.

Great point.

You could lump Irving, Bledsoe and Parker into that mix as well.

As a huge fan of KJ and Nash, that makes me wanna barf.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Great point.

You could lump Irving, Bledsoe and Parker into that mix as well.

As a huge fan of KJ and Nash, that makes me wanna barf.

I think you'd see KJ and even Nash play that way if they were in the league today. The game has changed, any guard that doesn't look to score is sacrificing an advantage that the other players on the court do not have. And scoring, even as a first option, doesn't necessarily mean they can't create for others too.

 

[AZCrazy]

Can the Suns pull some draft magic and end up with two of the top picks again? This is the year to try it.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Can the Suns pull some draft magic and end up with two of the top picks again? This is the year to try it.

This is my hope. I really want a mid teens pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would trade our two second rounders and the Miami pick next year to move up into the early teens.

 

[Matt L]

I would trade our two second rounders and the Miami pick next year to move up into the early teens.

Who would you be targetting in the 11-15 range? would you trade bledsoe for a First Round pick (6-15)?

 

[devilalum]

Great point.

You could lump Irving, Bledsoe and Parker into that mix as well.

As a huge fan of KJ and Nash, that makes me wanna barf.

The rules changes and the evolution of the game have somewhat negated the value of the playmaking PG.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JCSunsfan]

Who would you be targetting in the 11-15 range? would you trade bledsoe for a First Round pick (6-15)?

Not unless we were clearly drafting a replacement--better than Bledsoe--with the #4.

If Ball falls to #4, or the Suns decide on Fox or Smith, for example. But even then, I think it sets us back in our development several years (not really with Ball, but with Fox and Smith IMO).

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree that Fox has potential to become a better shooter. He seems hungry enough to work on it. However he is not a natural passer. His first instinct is to score. His passing almost primarily comes within the flow of the O. Once he lowers his shoulders at the top of the key, he's 99% sold that he's gonna shoot. There are just few plays where he's being creative with the ball. I could see him being a lifetime 20 ppg guy, but only a 5 apg one. And those 5 assists will come by default because he HAS to play PG because he's too small to really play anywhere else. This is my biggest problem with him: small guys that don't pass don't make players around them better.

Jackson is actually a more natural play maker than Fox. His assists are not in the flow of the O, rather in the flow of the Game. The semantical difference being one is a robotic passer, the other is an artistic passer. He's actual a good ball handler at his size. He's at least good at every aspect of the game and the guy is in on EVERY SINGLE PLAY. He has even clutch-ish shots (see the OSU game). While his defending isn't completely polished you can see him making heady plays and being passionate about it. He'll have to be stronger and commit to footwork, but he's a hungry player. Like Fox you can tell he wants to be great. The IT shines through. I really think this guy's stats could reflect Pippen-like numbers depending on where he lands. While I don't think he'll be the scoring superstar of the team, he will make the team very very good.

So Fox offers great scoring, hustling, and defending. Good passing and okay shooting at 6-3.
Jackson offers great athleticism, defending, passing, hustling. Good rebounding and shot altering ability at 6-8.

Jackson has the CLEAR edge on Fox. And not just on Fox, but on everyone else.

I enjoyed reading your post. Hope you become a regular on the Suns forum.

In regard to Fox, I think he has the complete package less 3 point shooting which I think he can develop. I think he can be a legitimate PG in the NBA and he has respectable size for this position. Plus as you note, he can play defense. I think his ability to score is not a negative. Regardless I don't think the Suns draft a PG at #4 and keep him.

In regard to Jackson, I'm not sold he is the best player in the draft. He is a streaky shooter but does bring aggressiveness and defense. Also he is quick and explosive. There is a lot to like.

This one comment from Draft Express does bother me a bit. See below.

Jackson's physical profile is a mixed bag. He has very good size for the wing at 6'8, and is a quick-twitch and highly explosive athlete who plays above the rim with ease and covers ground seamlessly defensively. With that said, his small hands, 6'10 wingspan and narrow 207 pound frame may limit his effectiveness playing the small-ball power forward role he was so successful filling in college, and the fact that he's an older freshman at 20 years old makes you wonder how much more strength his frame will carry down the line.

However, I'm going to be quite content with whoever the Suns draft at #4. The Suns should get a good one, Jackson included.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

 

[Raze]

I enjoyed reading your post. Hope you become a regular on the Suns forum.

In regard to Fox, I think he has the complete package less 3 point shooting which I think he can develop. I think he can be a legitimate PG in the NBA and he has respectable size for this position. Plus as you note, he can play defense. I think his ability to score is not a negative. Regardless I don't think the Suns draft a PG at #4 and keep him.

In regard to Jackson, I'm not sold he is the best player in the draft. He is a streaky shooter but does bring aggressiveness and defense. Also he is quick and explosive. There is a lot to like.

This one comment from Draft Express does bother me a bit. See below.



However, I'm going to be quite content with whoever the Suns draft at #4. The Suns should get a good one, Jackson included.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Josh-Jackson-7239/

Thanks for the kind welcome. I actually was a regular on Suns forums in the 90's and 00's. However, I died a little on May 12, 2007 (Game 3 Suns-Spurs). The horrid taste in my mouth is still there, but it's fading. I couldn't even talk NBA for years. It made me ill.

I'm not sure why I'm back on. Maybe because the Spurs best player retired: David Stern. Or maybe because I'm a big fan of McDonough's drafting prowess. (Dude has skills, just not when it comes to trades. Man, he's bad at trades.) But whatever the reason, I haven't been this pumped for an NBA draft in a while.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thanks for the kind welcome. I actually was a regular on Suns forums in the 90's and 00's. However, I died a little on May 12, 2007 (Game 3 Suns-Spurs). The horrid taste in my mouth is still there, but it's fading. I couldn't even talk NBA for years. It made me ill.

I'm not sure why I'm back on. Maybe because the Spurs best player retired: David Stern. Or maybe because I'm a big fan of McDonough's drafting prowess. (Dude has skills, just not when it comes to trades. Man, he's bad at trades.) But whatever the reason, I haven't been this pumped for an NBA draft in a while.

The Spurs make a lot of people ill. I get some comfort knowing they haven't made it to the Finals the past three seasons. Stern represented a lot of bad memories so I'm glad he is retired as well.

The Suns last three drafts have especially been encouraging plus the Suns now value their draft picks. They have laid a floor for the future particularly with Booker. Also McDonough is a smart GM. He has all the Suns picks in addition to the Miami picks.

I think the reason you should return to the Suns forum is the future. I think the Suns are moving forward and there is no better time than watch them put it together. The future is bright and lots of good things to talk about.

I look forward to more of your posts.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Who would you be targetting in the 11-15 range? would you trade bledsoe for a First Round pick (6-15)?

Smith, Collins, Markkanen, Allen, Adebayo, Giles

 

[Matt L]

Smith, Collins, Markkanen, Allen, Adebayo, Giles

I like your thought process. Drop Len, draft a big to groom behind Chandler. Trade Knight for a late lottery pick (take on a bad contract if we have to).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I like your thought process. Drop Len, draft a big to groom behind Chandler. Trade Knight for a late lottery pick (take on a bad contract if we have to).

Correct I see a big man run right in that 11-15. Collins I really like btw. I believe he is what we wished Len was.

 

[Hoop Head]

I like your thought process. Drop Len, draft a big to groom behind Chandler. Trade Knight for a late lottery pick (take on a bad contract if we have to).

No way could we trade Knight for a late lottery pick. I think the only way we could trade him and get any value in return is if we took back a Mozgov type contract, who is making $70 million over 4 years, who should have the 0 removed from his contract to show his real value. We could probably get a late first round pick for him but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that happens.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

No way could we trade Len for a late lottery pick. I think the only way we could trade him and get any value in return is if we took back a Mozgov type contract, who is making $70 million over 4 years, who should have the 0 removed from his contract to show his real value. We could probably get a late first round pick for him but I wouldn't hold my breath hoping that happens.

I think he means not resign Len

 

[pokerface]

) But whatever the reason, I haven't been this pumped for an NBA draft in a while.

You and me both. This is an exciting time!


Welcome aboard...good time to jump back on the train.

 

[Errntknght]

We can't trade Len except via a sign and trade since he's an RFA...

 

[Hoop Head]

Oo

I think he means not resign Len

I meant Knight, like he mentioned. I was thinking about trading Len in another thread, I know we can't trade him. Edited the post.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I just watched a bunch of Collins tape. He might honestly be the best fit for this team. Great inside / outside game. Strong rebounder and has great feet / lateral quickness.

 

[SirStefan32]

I just watched a bunch of Collins tape. He might honestly be the best fit for this team. Great inside / outside game. Strong rebounder and has great feet / lateral quickness.

Which one? Zach or John?