Team not able to run won't make the playoffs, WRONG

Jetstream Green

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I give you the Eagles. Yes, the Cardinals can also still make the playoffs without a running game in the NFC West if their defense can get tougher in the redzone over the trek of the rest of the season.
 

Evil Ash

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Jetstream Green said:
I give you the Eagles. Yes, the Cardinals can also still make the playoffs without a running game in the NFC West if their defense can get tougher in the redzone over the trek of the rest of the season.

We would also need a much better special teams unit. For Example with the Eagles their last win, was won because they blocked a FG and returned it for a TD

Quite frankly with our ST unit I'm not holding out any hope for that
 

azwulf

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Jetstream Green said:
I give you the Eagles. Yes, the Cardinals can also still make the playoffs without a running game in the NFC West if their defense can get tougher in the redzone over the trek of the rest of the season.


Sorry but we are a 2-4 team with no running attack. Not running successfully may cut for others but I don't see it for us. Even if ST play is improving and our DL plays the run as well as last game in every game.

Bottom line: No PO for the cards with this type of running game IMHO.
 

Stout

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Jetstream Green said:
I give you the Eagles. Yes, the Cardinals can also still make the playoffs without a running game in the NFC West if their defense can get tougher in the redzone over the trek of the rest of the season.

Yeah, but the Eagles CAN run the ball more, they just DON'T. By design. Big difference and the reason why they're better than we are. Well, one of the reasons.
 

JeffGollin

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Why Stats Can be Misleading

Run stats can be misleading because of the "chicken or the egg" phenominon.

Did a team win because it ran a lot and picked up plenty of ground yards?

Or did it run a lot and pick up plenty of ground yards because it was ahead early and wanted to drain time off the clock?

Certainly a good ground game is better than a bad ground game (or in our situation, no ground game). And in most instances, you don't figure to win many games if you can't run the ball.

But in some instances you can. The Eagles example is a good one. But it involves one of those proverbial "nuances." A West Coast Offense utilizes short passes to RB's which are, in a sense, "running plays." The yardage gained in this manner don't show up in the stats as ground yardage, but - like running plays - they keep the chains moving.

Although Dennis comes out of a West Coast tradition, his offense is more a hybrid that features more vertical emphasis off play action.

He is right when he says that, if you can't run the ball, you have to find some other way to gain yardage. But this is no mean task if you're not running a pure West Coast Offense (like the Eagles) because it's a timing offense that requires the right personnel and familiarity with the system.

The few instances when Dennis has been able to compensate for the run game has been when McCown uses Shipp or Arrington as an outlet receiver.

But this aspect of our offensive game is only partially developed (i.e. we have 2 or 3 of those options which sometimes work, but can be beaten by teams with lots of LB and S speed to put a spy on our RB and adjust to our strategy).
 
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phillycard

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Jetstream Green said:
I give you the Eagles. Yes, the Cardinals can also still make the playoffs without a running game in the NFC West if their defense can get tougher in the redzone over the trek of the rest of the season.


JG, surely you can't compare us to those clowns. They have the intangibles that will get them over the hump where we would fail. Simply put, we don't have #36 back there! I was screaming for us to take him too. If we had, we'd be in the envious position of having 3 playmakers on offense. If we played in the NFC east still we'd be owned with the lack of a productive backfield. They are a differnt animal entirely. No comparison.
 

BigRedMO

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JeffGollin said:
Run stats can be misleading because of the "chicken or the egg" phenominon.

Did a team win because it ran a lot and picked up plenty of ground yards?

Or did it run a lot and pick up plenty of ground yards because it was ahead early and wanted to drain time off the clock?

Certainly a good ground game is better than a bad ground game (or in our situation, no ground game). And in most instances, you don't figure to win many games if you can't run the ball.

But in some instances you can. The Eagles example is a good one. But it involves one of those proverbial "nuances." A West Coast Offense utilizes short passes to RB's which are, in a sense, "running plays." The yardage gained in this manner don't show up in the stats as ground yardage, but - like running plays - they keep the chains moving.

Although Dennis comes out of a West Coast tradition, his offense is more a hybrid that features more vertical emphasis off play action.

He is right when he says that, if you can't run the ball, you have to find some other way to gain yardage. But this is no mean task if you're not running a pure West Coast Offense (like the Eagles) because it's a timing offense that requires the right personnel and familiarity with the system.

The few instances when Dennis has been able to compensate for the run game has been when McCown uses Shipp or Arrington as an outlet receiver.

But this aspect of our offensive game is only partially developed (i.e. we have 2 or 3 of those options which sometimes work, but can be beaten by teams with lots of LB and S speed to put a spy on our RB and adjust to our strategy).

This post is right on. The Eagles only try to run 17 times a game. That is why they are last in rushing. As west coast team they get the ball to their backs with short passes. Still the Eagles of this year are not the Eagles of the past. They may not win the East.

I cant believe anybody is talking playoffs for the Cardinals after that horrible TN game. Fans of this team are so desperate to field a winner they dont see the obvious about this team. This team is BAD!!!!!!! In 4 weeks when this team is likely 2-8 the talk will be about FAs and draft picks for next year. The Cardinals have the talent and organization to beat bad teams at home and only barely. Note TN. On the road they wont beat those bad teams let alone good ones. So they lose at Dallas, SEA, at Det and at STL.
 
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Rats

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BigRedMO said:
This post is right on. The Eagles only try to run 17 times a game. That is why they are last in rushing. As west coast team they get the ball to their backs with short passes. Still the Eagles of this year are not the Eagles of the past. They may not win the East.

I cant believe anybody is talking playoffs for the Cardinals after that horrible TN game. Fans of this team are so desperate to field a winner they dont see the obvious about this team. This team is BAD!!!!!!! In 4 weeks when this team is likely 2-6 the talk will be about FAs and draft picks for next year. The Cardinals have the talent and organization to beat bad teams at home and only barely. Note TN. On the road they wont beat those bad teams let alone good ones. So they lose at Dallas, SEA, at Det and at STL.
I thinkwe will be 2-2 in those four games. Our d has been bad but we are starting to play better. We will not lose to the Rams or the Lions. And if the stars align we beat Seattle at home.
 
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Pariah

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So, because the Eagles will make the playoffs this year, we can, too?

Hmmm. There's a flaw somewhere in that logic....lesseee....
 

conraddobler

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BigRedMO said:
This post is right on. The Eagles only try to run 17 times a game. That is why they are last in rushing. As west coast team they get the ball to their backs with short passes. Still the Eagles of this year are not the Eagles of the past. They may not win the East.

I cant believe anybody is talking playoffs for the Cardinals after that horrible TN game. Fans of this team are so desperate to field a winner they dont see the obvious about this team. This team is BAD!!!!!!! In 4 weeks when this team is likely 2-6 the talk will be about FAs and draft picks for next year. The Cardinals have the talent and organization to beat bad teams at home and only barely. Note TN. On the road they wont beat those bad teams let alone good ones. So they lose at Dallas, SEA, at Det and at STL.


I agree with you for now.

The team is not that bad though, as bad as our run game is and it is, DG has a point and if he gets his way and Rowen listens to him we can improve drastically quickly.

DG finally said what a lot of people have been griping about, we continue to try and do things we can't do. I guess it's just Rowen trying in vain to establish some sort of run.

I think that's the exact wrong way to go about it. Maximize what you do well and beat other people to death with it. Make them adjust to you and then run sporadically in situations you shouldn't be expected to but only run then.

First, learn how to run a friggin screen play. That one play would help a ton.

Second pass pass pass pass run pass pass pass pass.

Third take every negative play out of your playbook, just throw it away.
 
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