Tell me again Brown is a better pick than AP

[RugbyMuffin]

who has to walk on egg shells? I just don't see the value in putting words in people's mouths, ourtright lying about their opinions or telling them to get lost.

Really?

No duh! I friggin' know that about you already. Hence I said for a long time I made an effort not to do those things.

And you still took whatever I said the wrong way. Granted I have stated many times my languistic skills absolutely suck in the worst way imaginable.

Thus I am just taking the why bother approach. You see me as a lair, and one who calls you out for saying stuff you never said, at least that is what I see. There is nothing I can do to change it and I have tried.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It's like Kurt Warner said to the press last week."Where are you guys after we win?" After a loss the locker is packed with questions after a win there is hardly anyone around.

I couldn't agree more with that statement.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Davis wasn't worth a $50 million contract but Levi Brown had somehow "merited" a $62 million contract? Apparently, you think so. No offense, but I don't.

That 62 million you talked about is highly incentive based.. Putting it to you this way, if Brown reaches those incentive bonuses and cashes in on all of that contract, not one person on this board will have a foot to stand on in the "WE SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED PETERSON INSTEAD" arguement. Then again, knowing the way some people here feel, they'll still bitch and moan redundantly about it.

The Colts are the 4th-best offense in the NFL.

Yep.. And they would have BEEN the 4th best offense in the NFL without Tony Ugoh. They were a top 4 offense last year without him.. He's also surrounded by a more talented offensive line than what Levi's working around here.

Mike Gandy's blocking for James now. He'd be blocking for Peterson/James whether we'd drafted Tony Ugoh or re-signed Leonard Davis. I'm not sure what your point is.

Point being, I could name on one hand the number of people who were in favor of the Mike Gandy move, and had the Cards stuck with him as their only move in terms of improving the Offensive Line, this place would have turned in to an even bigger war zone than it already is.

I get it.. Brown had a poopy game yesterday. He's also not making the highlight reels on Sportscenter and having Jim Rome, John Madden and the other commentators salivate all over his every move. Yet for those who have said he's been crap all season are too damn blinded by the "what might have been" syndrome.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm not the one who said it was too early to judge.

But if we're going to judge right now can anybody seriously argue that Peterson isn't having a better year than Brown?

Come on man.

Peterson's season is about a bu-zillion times better than Brown's season.

Unfortunately, he is not on the Cardinals.

Levi Brown is.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Well, Leonard Davis is going to earn his $50 million contract by likely starting in the Pro Bowl. In his first season, in a new system, with a first-year OC.

......At his natural position.. Guard. On the same Offensive Line as a 2 Pro Bowlers (Flozell Adams, Andre Gurode) and a vastly underrated Kyle Kozier.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Come on man.

Peterson's season is about a bu-zillion times better than Brown's season.

Unfortunately, he is not on the Cardinals.

Levi Brown is.

here's what I think you're missing about this entire discussion (and if I'm not, let me know). Levi Brown being on the Cards and sucking or not sucking isn't as much an indictment on Levi Brown as it is on our FO. THAT'S the issue. That's why it keeps on being brought up, because a lot of us want change in the FO that unfortunately looks like it's never going to happen and it pains us to the core that we continue to root for a team that we ultimately believe is doomed.

 

[jefftheshark]

Davis wasn't worth a $50 million contract but Levi Brown had somehow "merited" a $62 million contract? Apparently, you think so. No offense, but I don't.

Ugoh and Brown have both missed significant playing time. How can you say that he's not playing "as well as Brown." What's that based on? The Colts are the 4th-best offense in the NFL.

Mike Gandy's blocking for James now. He'd be blocking for Peterson/James whether we'd drafted Tony Ugoh or re-signed Leonard Davis. I'm not sure what your point is.

Someone posted last week that there was a dramatic positive difference in our rushing stats when we ran to the right vs. the left. This bodes well for Brown.

James was brought in to make our existing line look better. It didn't work last year, and it didn't work this year either. James needs to be replaced with someone faster (and not named Shipp or Arrington). When you see a guy like Ryan Grant having the success he is having, it doesn't necessarily mean that we need to spend a 1st round pick on someone who will be better than what we have. It means that we need to re-look at our scouting department.

And comparing Davis and Brown is counter-productive. Compare Davis with Gandy and Brown with Wells. One is a wash and the other is a clear upgrade. Now if you were to compare Davis this year to Wells as a guard, then you might have some serious ammo, but if we had retained Davis as a guard, we would have needed a RT, so we go back to square one any way you look at it.

JMHO

JTS

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Originally Posted by RugbyMuffin
BTW, what was the last positve thing you or the posse' complemented the Cardinals for doing.

um, last week when we beat the Browns and I thought we showed good resilience and was happy to be in a place we hadn't been since 1998. Sorry if I reserve my compliments for when the team actually deserves them. Weird how that works, huh?[Quote]


Yeah, maybe you should reserve your negative comments for when the team acuatually deserves them as well.

Wierd how you only saw it one way

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Someone posted last week that there was a dramatic positive difference in our rushing stats when we ran to the right vs. the left. This bodes well for Brown.

James was brought in to make our existing line look better. It didn't work last year, and it didn't work this year either. James needs to be replaced with someone faster (and not named Shipp or Arrington). When you see a guy like Ryan Grant having the success he is having, it doesn't necessarily mean that we need to spend a 1st round pick on someone who will be better than what we have. It means that we need to re-look at our scouting department.

And comparing Davis and Brown is counter-productive. Compare Davis with Gandy and Brown with Wells. One is a wash and the other is a clear upgrade. Now if you were to compare Davis this year to Wells as a guard, then you might have some serious ammo, but if we had retained Davis as a guard, we would have needed a RT, so we go back to square one any way you look at it.

JMHO

JTS

Great breakdown.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thus I am just taking the why bother approach. You see me as a lair, and one who calls you out for saying stuff you never said, at least that is what I see. There is nothing I can do to change it and I have tried.

a) I don't think you're a liar overall. I think your statement about "darksiders hating everything great the cards have done" was a lie, but just because someone makes one false statement, doesn't mean I think someth.... eh forget it. If I'm somehow the bad guy when you came into a thread and completely misrepresented what a lot of people think, then repeatedly slammed me and told me to get lost, then so be it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, maybe you should reserve your negative comments for when the team acuatually deserves them as well.

you mean like when it looks like we completely blow a draft? I'm pretty sure I'm doing exactly what you're suggesting above in this thread. Criticizing the team when they deserve it because of their draft decision. what am I missing here?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

here's what I think you're missing about this entire discussion (and if I'm not, let me know). Levi Brown being on the Cards and sucking or not sucking isn't as much an indictment on Levi Brown as it is on our FO. THAT'S the issue. That's why it keeps on being brought up, because a lot of us want change in the FO that unfortunately looks like it's never going to happen and it pains us to the core that we continue to root for a team that we ultimately believe is doomed.

Heck, yeah it is painful. But you got a choice. There is that strange addiction reason we all watch the Cardinals. I enjoy it.....well not 100% of the time but I do enjoy it. I watched the whole game Sunday. I knew we were gonna get beaten badly, but in my opinion the team is devistated by injury (joeschmo doesn't agree but that is cool I see his side). This team at 100% would have smashed the hawks, at least I personally believe so.

But I digress.

But the front office is not going to change.

Plus the 2007 draft is over. Done. Finished.

The wrongs and rights of the draft are finished. You wanna bash the front office then do so.

But pick another topic. The front office can't go back in time and change the pick. Nobody can do that. (except maybe the Pats )

You post something about AP and Levi Brown you are going to get people that: A. Think Brown was the right pick or B. Agree AP is the better pick but enough is enough. The dead horse has been beaten into a fleshy pulp.

 

[Duckjake]

And comparing Davis and Brown is counter-productive. Compare Davis with Gandy and Brown with Wells. One is a wash and the other is a clear upgrade. Now if you were to compare Davis this year to Wells as a guard, then you might have some serious ammo, but if we had retained Davis as a guard, we would have needed a RT, so we go back to square one any way you look at it.

And that RT would have been Wells who was considered by many on this board to have been playing very well at that position last season.

Gandy
Davis
Johnson
Latui
Wells

And either Adrian Peterson or LaRon Landry (if they could have converted him to FS). That would have been perfect.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know. Come back and ask me the same question 2 or 3 years from now. It usually takes more than 13 games to judge whether someone deserves the contract they get when they're a rookie.

Unless that person has earned their salary this year no it doesn't take 2-3 years. He might have a great year next year and earn THAT salary, but he hasn't this year. Not his fault the NFL slots rookie salaries but very few high picks actually earn their first year salary. This year off the top of my head the guys who have are

Adrian Peterson
Joe Thomas
Patrick Willis
Marshawn Lynch

Probably a few other guys in there but certainly not Brown this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But pick another topic.

again, why should we pick another topic? Some people want to talk about it. No one's forcing you to do so. Isn't it YOU that should pick another topic if you don't want to talk about it?

 

[Mulli]

If not for those who wish the thread would die, it probably would have a long time ago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If not for those who wish the thread would die, it probably would have a long time ago.

yup, the ultimate irony of those wishing the thread went away. nothing ends a thread quicker than everyone being in agreement.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

a) I don't think you're a liar overall. I think your statement about "darksiders hating everything great the cards have done" was a lie, but just because someone makes one false statement, doesn't mean I think someth.... eh forget it. If I'm somehow the bad guy when you came into a thread and completely misrepresented what a lot of people think, then repeatedly slammed me and told me to get lost, then so be it.

Regardless, If I have beef with you.....beef hehehehehehe.

In bold, is NOT cool. I have been on the side of that, and it sucks.

What I said is no more of a lie then, Ouchie stating "All of the posters who like being 2 and 5, etc., etc." Where is your posting casting out his lie/exaggeration ?

But you know what ? I am with you. This is like to sissies in a slap match. Who gives a darn.

I am concerned about:
"Rugby, you make a lot of very opinionate comments, a lot of them directed at POSTERS rather than football. That's something that irks me, either way."

I really, really don't see that. I don't try to make any of this personal. And I mean that in a sincer (dude, I do NOT know how to spell that) tone, not arrogant. It irks me as well when people do that. It would completely suck if that is the way my thoughts come out when typed.

As for being opinionated ? Well, If I am not opinionated then it is taken that I am stating facts. Thus get called out for stating opinion as fact. Thus I try to put into my posts that it is just my opinoin. Or that I see it in the other way but I don't agreee.

It's either an opinion or a fact.......I dunno. I just want to talk on this thing without being called a liar, or that I am some @sshole picking a fight.

That and I probably don't know what opinionated means entirely.

The stupid thing.....well, I have my moments.

 

[Russ Smith]

yup, the ultimate irony of those wishing the thread went away. nothing ends a thread quicker than everyone being in agreement.

Agreed.

oops.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Unless that person has earned their salary this year no it doesn't take 2-3 years. He might have a great year next year and earn THAT salary, but he hasn't this year. Not his fault the NFL slots rookie salaries but very few high picks actually earn their first year salary.

Which is more or less exactly what I was trying to say when I gave you the "come talk to me in three years" remark.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I said is no more of a lie then, Ouchie stating "All of the posters who like being 2 and 5, etc., etc." Where is your posting casting out his lie/exaggeration ?

Ouchie's a moron for doing that as well but I give Ouchie (and he gives me) enough crap off the board that we don't need to pile on while we're on it. But if you noticed, I've repeatedly called out SWD who seems to have gone wayyyyyyyy past the darkside to the black hole.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

again, why should we pick another topic? Some people want to talk about it. No one's forcing you to do so. Isn't it YOU that should pick another topic if you don't want to talk about it?

But I do want to talk about.

I feel the need to say that AP in Minnesota and Brown is on Arizona, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

There are other points and such but at this point I think the whole point of the thread is down the pooper.

 

[Russ Smith]

But I do want to talk about.

I feel the need to say that AP in Minnesota and Brown is on Arizona, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

There are other points and such but at this point I think the whole point of the thread is down the pooper.

Agreed.

however saying what if Fitz and Q were healthy is irrelevant to, we cant' change that. Virtually everything we discuss on this board is out of our control and yet the board exists and we all post here.

People just object to certain subjects.

We have the same debates on UCLA basketball boards but when you've been to consecutive final 4's it's pretty hard to say the coach is wrong about something, with the Cards it's a bit easier to disagree because of the track record of the team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They said the same thing about Reggie Bush last season. They'll surely say the same things about Darren McFadden this year. They'll more likely than not dub another HB with that same tag next year.

hmm, but AP is not reggie bush. to argue otherwise is uncivilized.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Heck, yeah it is painful. But you got a choice. There is that strange addiction reason we all watch the Cardinals. I enjoy it.....well not 100% of the time but I do enjoy it. I watched the whole game Sunday. I knew we were gonna get beaten badly, but in my opinion the team is devistated by injury (joeschmo doesn't agree but that is cool I see his side). This team at 100% would have smashed the hawks, at least I personally believe so.

But I digress.

But the front office is not going to change.

Plus the 2007 draft is over. Done. Finished.

The wrongs and rights of the draft are finished. You wanna bash the front office then do so.

But pick another topic. The front office can't go back in time and change the pick. Nobody can do that. (except maybe the Pats )

You post something about AP and Levi Brown you are going to get people that: A. Think Brown was the right pick or B. Agree AP is the better pick but enough is enough. The dead horse has been beaten into a fleshy pulp.

see, i think you're wrong here. russ made a great argument in one of these threads that this is no different than picking apart the gameday decisions made by the coaching staff. it's in the past. it can't be redone. but those decisions can be revisited to avoid similar mistakes in the future. and we rant not b/c we want AP now over levi (though we do, but we recognize that ain't happening), but rather b/c we want something done to the front office to avoid these PAST mistakes in the FUTURE. and each game that AP succeeds (on his way to the HOF) or brown sucks (as is becoming increasingly the norm) only provides more evidence of the past failure that we wish to avoid in the future. that people still argue it wasn't mistake raises some of our ire b/c it means they supported this front office's decision, which means they support the continued decisions of this front office, which will in all likelihood suck as bad as levi brown did this sunday past. ugh.