Tell me again Brown is a better pick than AP

[Russ Smith]

I'll bring this question up over and over again. You have a 30 million dollar man at HB. Peterson would have commanded top 5 pick money, guaranteed. The question-- who would have blocked for him?

I'm no Kool-Aid drinker.. Far, FAR from it. However, all last year, I read people complain at length (and rightfully so) about how horrible the Offensive Line was and how the Cardinals main goal in the post-season had better be upgrading the line. They go out, they make efforts to improve the line, and you still have a large contingency of people complaining about who they DIDN'T take. I swear to God, if I had a nickel for every thread or post on here about how the Cards should have taken Peterson, I'd be able to buy the Cardinals from the Bidwills and probably own a good piece of the Suns too.

Because the way we set out about doing that was letting several guys walk, and then bringing in guys to replace them so we basically filled holes we created. At the early point of the year it seemed Grimm was some Midas touch guy that was making them all better players, clearly it hasn't worked out that way.

The OL was playing better at the end of last year, markedly better, we broke it up and made it worse.

And then to compound it because we broke it up, we used a first round pick on Brown at the expense of better players.

 

[Mulli]

I'm going to start my own "siders" group.

Naming it is going to be hard.

The Pissedsiders.

Pissedofftimists? I think that one is it...former optimists who sit on the darkside but don't like it, but know it's right. Who look at the team and see them losing more games than they win and being ok calling it that way and if they happen to win then sweet, but I'm not expecting it.

Join me...come to the fold, Pissedofftimists.

I will join. I think Steve will also join, perchance.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

uh okay. Seriously rugby, you keep talking about olive branches, but I don't even know when one was needed. I've got and have never had a personal beef with you. I may completely disagree with most everything you say relating to football, but different strokes for different folks.

Whatever. You can say this and that.

The last time you said I put words in your mouth I felt so bad because I knew it got you angry since we have been debating on this board for about 4 years now.

I actually tried very hard for a while not do something to insult you and even apologized when I did. Even when walking on egg shells when responding to you, you STILL had a problem with me. AND I still apologized again.

Enough. I love the fact you and I see things 180 degrees from each other. But it is not worth the walking on the egg shells, and it is not worth the ridicule.

When you do something I have to switch to decaf, but if heaven forbid I am the smallest bit out of line, then I am a liar, or I put words in people's mouths, or I am ridiculouls. I have had it.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

For a lot of people, Leonard Davis and Mike Gandy would have blocked for James/Peterson. If not, then Tony Ugoh and Mike Gandy would have blocked for James/Peterson.

You think Big merited a 50 million dollar contract with his play here? No offense, but I don't.

As for Ugoh vs. Brown, as previously pointed out, before getting hurt, Ugoh was playing ok.. but hasn't played as well as Brown.

Mike Gandy? I don't think you were around these parts when he signed, but trust me-- the reaction by and large here to that move was far from positive. In fact, you would think the Cardinals held open tryouts Vince Papale style for the open job.

 

[D-Dogg]

I will join. I think Steve will also join, perchance.

:shakesfist:

Steeeve.

 

[DaisyCutter]

If Levi turns into an all pro linemen would it be the right pick then a few years down the road? Just silly for people to keep bringing up AP we didn't pick him and rightly so get over it!

Maybe, but Adrian Peterson is an All Pro Runningback right now and would be a legit candidate for MVP if the Vikings make the playoffs.

 

[Russ Smith]

if it's too early to judge, how can he be the right pick?

I was just about to post that myself.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm going to start my own "siders" group.

Naming it is going to be hard.

The Pissedsiders.

Pissedofftimists? I think that one is it...former optimists who sit on the darkside but don't like it, but know it's right. Who look at the team and see them losing more games than they win and being ok calling it that way and if they happen to win then sweet, but I'm not expecting it.

Join me...come to the fold, Pissedofftimists.

How about the Postmachines ?

Here is the slogan:
Darksider? Kool-aider? Who cares...just post something about it.

 

[football karma]

I'm not way down on Levi. I realize he had a bad game.I said as much in another post. One thing it seems like the Cards don't do, and i'm not sure how much teams do this,is look what talent is available the following year's draft. There are about 5 OT's projected in round 1 this year amongst Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Phil Loadholt, Micheal Ohler, Sam Baker, Alex Boone, and Gosder Cherilus. To me, and i'm sure part of this is hindsight, you could've franchised Big for a year,drafted AP and then took a tackle this year and we'd be in about the same spot, OL-wise, and have AP toting the ball on a full time basis next year . I don't think that would've been too far fetched for a front office to do.

yeah -- I have thought about that too --

as the guy who is now pimping Jonathan Stewart of Oregon --

I was reflecting on the fact that the CArds could have gone Peterson in 07/ Sam Baker in 08 instead of Brown / Stewart and probably been better off.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Because we had a very expensive back in the backfield already and NO LINE so the right pick is to build the line...clear enough for you cheese?

so reaching for need is the right pick? I think a lot of people (not just me as this thread is a testament to) have a different opinion than you.

if the guy ends up sucking, is it still the right pick?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I was just about to post that myself.

Then how is AP the right pick.

 

[Russ Smith]

You think Big merited a 50 million dollar contract with his play here? No offense, but I don't.

As for Ugoh vs. Brown, as previously pointed out, before getting hurt, Ugoh was playing ok.. but hasn't played as well as Brown.

Mike Gandy? I don't think you were around these parts when he signed, but trust me-- the reaction by and large here to that move was far from positive. In fact, you would think the Cardinals held open tryouts Vince Papale style for the open job.

Has Brown earned his contract?

NFL players are generally overpaid most of their careers. Early on because of draft status and slotting, later because of free agency. Underpaid players don't stay underpaid very long, it's the nature of the NFL.

 

[DaisyCutter]

You think Big merited a 50 million dollar contract with his play here? No offense, but I don't.

As for Ugoh vs. Brown, as previously pointed out, before getting hurt, Ugoh was playing ok.. but hasn't played as well as Brown.

Mike Gandy? I don't think you were around these parts when he signed, but trust me-- the reaction by and large here to that move was far from positive. In fact, you would think the Cardinals held open tryouts Vince Papale style for the open job.

Davis wasn't worth a $50 million contract but Levi Brown had somehow "merited" a $62 million contract? Apparently, you think so. No offense, but I don't.

Ugoh and Brown have both missed significant playing time. How can you say that he's not playing "as well as Brown." What's that based on? The Colts are the 4th-best offense in the NFL.

Mike Gandy's blocking for James now. He'd be blocking for Peterson/James whether we'd drafted Tony Ugoh or re-signed Leonard Davis. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Russ Smith]

Then how is AP the right pick.

I'm not the one who said it was too early to judge.

But if we're going to judge right now can anybody seriously argue that Peterson isn't having a better year than Brown?

 

[gamebird98]

Not!!! I know he's young and inexperienced, but the kid is getting his ass handed to him. I will NEVER no matter what happens in their careers think we made the right decision.

GET OVER IT! Its the decision that was made, and you cant change it now.

 

[jefftheshark]

switch to decaf Rugby. I've got no beef with you besides the idea that darksiders hate everything great that we've done, which is quite frankly, insulting. But even then, I have no animosity towards you, nor have i called you stupid, a lunatic, or labeled everything you do as eccentric BS or accuse you of bullying people.

You know it's funny that Cheesey is having to carry the "Darksider" banner, when for most of the season he was in danger of having his status revoked.

I say we go back to the old method of getting over a tough loss, by getting mad at the players, coaches and GM, rather than each other.

JTS

 

[DaisyCutter]

Then how is AP the right pick.

Because he's arguably right now the best player in that draft. If not him, then Joe Thomas. If not him, then Calvin Johnson.

 

[D-Dogg]

I was just about to post that myself.

Not all picks are instant impact. In fact, most are not. Takes a bit.

See Williams, Mario. That pick sure looks a hell of a lot better now.

The fact that AP has had instant impact in Minnesota does not mean he would have had the same impact here. And hell, after seeing how our line last year performed in St. Louis this week, maybe if Levi were playing somewhere else he'd have more instant impact.

You can't compare the two...it is impossible. They play at different positions, in different systems, with different teams with different strategies. So it goes.

Was it the wrong pick? Maybe. Maybe not. One day we might know, or we might never know. I know WHY they made the decision and in some ways I agree with it. Pre-draft, I'd have been happy with either, or with Landry or a few other guys. We got Levi...I hope he pans out. Minny got AP...I hope he stays healthy because he's fun to watch.

Bottom line...we all just like to argue too muffing much.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not all picks are instant impact. In fact, most are not. Takes a bit.

See Williams, Mario. That pick sure looks a hell of a lot better now.

The fact that AP has had instant impact in Minnesota does not mean he would have had the same impact here. And hell, after seeing how our line last year performed in St. Louis this week, maybe if Levi were playing somewhere else he'd have more instant impact.

You can't compare the two...it is impossible. They play at different positions, in different systems, with different teams with different strategies. So it goes.

Was it the wrong pick? Maybe. Maybe not. One day we might know, or we might never know. I know WHY they made the decision and in some ways I agree with it. Pre-draft, I'd have been happy with either, or with Landry or a few other guys. We got Levi...I hope he pans out. Minny got AP...I hope he stays healthy because he's fun to watch.

Bottom line...we all just like to argue too muffing much.

Hey I defended the Williams pick I said Bush was exciting as hell but I wasn't convinced he was an everydown RB.

The point here was Nashman said it's too early tell and then added but Brown was the right pick. He contradicted himself, it can't be both too early to tell and the right pick, they're mutually exclusive.

 

[D-Dogg]

How about the Postmachines ?

Here is the slogan:
Darksider? Kool-aider? Who cares...just post something about it.

I still prefer Pissedofftimists. Just seems to fit me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know it's funny that Cheesey is having to carry the "Darksider" banner, when for most of the season he was in danger of having his status revoked.

seriously.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Has Brown earned his contract?

I don't know. Come back and ask me the same question 2 or 3 years from now. It usually takes more than 13 games to judge whether someone deserves the contract they get when they're a rookie.

 

[D-Dogg]

The point here was Nashman said it's too early tell and then added but Brown was the right pick. He contradicted himself, it can't be both too early to tell and the right pick, they're mutually exclusive.

yeah, I'm just using your post as a jumping off point for a rant.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You know it's funny that Cheesey is having to carry the "Darksider" banner, when for most of the season he was in danger of having his status revoked.

I say we go back to the old method of getting over a tough loss, by getting mad at the players, coaches and GM, rather than each other.

JTS

It's like Kurt Warner said to the press last week."Where are you guys after we win?" After a loss the locker is packed with questions after a win there is hardly anyone around.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I don't know. Come back and ask me the same question 2 or 3 years from now. It usually takes more than 13 games to judge whether someone deserves the contract they get when they're a rookie.

Well, Leonard Davis is going to earn his $50 million contract by likely starting in the Pro Bowl. In his first season, in a new system, with a first-year OC.