That Carson Palmer guy...

[Jetstream Green]

You know him, the guy which was used as a tackling dummy this year due to our MASH unit offensive line. Now, when given protection Palmer will light a defense up but it does not mean he cannot improvise (btw that means moving around in the pocket too and not being necessarily a wishbone QB) if he has to but he is only human. Palmer is going to make a lot of money if he stays for another year with the Cards and the Cards could only be so lucky to pay a guy the money who is frankly better that half the QBs starting and is a leader. Seriously, I am really befuddled by all these people saying he his getting old and it shows. Unless you think he had developed some kind of Troy Aikman concussion syndrome, you cannot say he has lost arm strength or you are talking out of your respected arses. Hell, the pass rush has screwed him up this year and he has overthrown a ton of deep passes, that is right he threw the ball too freaking far which is hardly an indication that he has lost physical ability. Do we need a young future QB? damn right and we need to address it this coming season... but this continuous arm chair GM stuff around here where the first easy cap release is Palmer is down right asinine

 

[vince56]

Some people believe cap room wins championships. We have a top 15 QB, and they don't grow on trees. We keep him happy and throwing until his arm falls off.

 

[DeAnna]

When he has time, he's great. Seems to me like his reaction time is slow and he has trouble improvising. If the play breaks down, the still goes with it and throws it to that spot, even if there's a defender there. Weird.

 

[Jetstream Green]

When he has time, he's great. Seems to me like his reaction time is slow and he has trouble improvising. If the play breaks down, the still goes with it and throws it to that spot, even if there's a defender there. Weird.

I do not buy the observation his reaction time is slow, the David Johnson pass is a prime example of him getting off a difficult pass at a split second, as he did through out the Saint game. He is a pocket QB, and BA's offense requires a pocket QB foremost. This whole mobile QB phase is a cop out in acceptance of the current state of college sports which is turning out OL which cannot hold a block and QBs which cannot read a defense out of a spread offense and have old school leather helmet aspirations of running for that TD. BA runs an offense where routes take awhile to develop and then that WR has to still be there because they are also based on timing... these accidents are not weird, it's what one can expect when someone did not do their job other than Palmer in my opinion

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Some people believe cap room wins championships.

5/5

lol!

 

[Stout]

Some people seem to think Palmer's still going to be great for five years, that age won't and hasn't touched him, and...etc, etc, etc. These people seem to think it's gospel truth and how dare anyone disagree. I mean, I think that's pretty arrogant, but hey, they're allowed to think they're infallible when they certainly, in reality, are fallible.

To end the above hyperbole, there's two sides to this issue. Some, myself included, think age has caught up with Palmer. Would anyone here want to pay huge money for a finished QB who will only drag the team down further? I'm not saying you have to agree with me on if he's finished but, broadly, who would want to pay big money for that? Nobody.

The question is whether or not he's past his time on the football field. Lots of smart people, like myself, think he is. Lots of smart people disagree. Unfortunately, lots of those smart people who disagree are acting really dumb pretending that the other side wants to cut a perfectly serviceable QB. Yeah, if we don't think he's serviceable, then it's a SMART move to cut him. A-duh lol

 

[Chopper0080]

Some people seem to think Palmer's still going to be great for five years, that age won't and hasn't touched him, and...etc, etc, etc. These people seem to think it's gospel truth and how dare anyone disagree. I mean, I think that's pretty arrogant, but hey, they're allowed to think they're infallible when they certainly, in reality, are fallible.

To end the above hyperbole, there's two sides to this issue. Some, myself included, think age has caught up with Palmer. Would anyone here want to pay huge money for a finished QB who will only drag the team down further? I'm not saying you have to agree with me on if he's finished but, broadly, who would want to pay big money for that? Nobody.

The question is whether or not he's past his time on the football field. Lots of smart people, like myself, think he is. Lots of smart people disagree. Unfortunately, lots of those smart people who disagree are acting really dumb pretending that the other side wants to cut a perfectly serviceable QB. Yeah, if we don't think he's serviceable, then it's a SMART move to cut him. A-duh lol

It is basic math. Cutting Palmer will cost 13 mil. It will save 10 mil. If you use only that 10 mil to sign a replacement starting QB, then your starting QB costs 23 mil. 13 for Palmer and 10 for the new guy. In this highly optimistic scenario, you only save 1 mil to spend on another player. the exact cap number for Palmer is closer to 24 mil.

 

[Mitch]

I think that Carson Palmer has a lot of character and a superb work ethic. What concerns me about him are the repeated mistakes he makes under pressure---clearly BA has not been able to coach those mistakes out of him in four years. Ball protection is so key to a team's chances to win ion the NFL, especially for a team that has a good, solid defense that will keep the games close and competitive.

At times it almost seems like Palmer has to make one of his repeated mistakes in order for him to get his resolve up. he is remarkably resilient and he will try like crazy to answer for his mistakes, but typically his mistakes tend to put the team in a hole. Palmer's fist half performances this year have been subpar---it seems to take him a while to rev up the engine. For that reason, the only scenario that I feel makes keeping him valid is to challenge him and his playing time with another QB on the roster---and Drew Stanton is not that guy. Plus, Palmer, if he really wants a shot at a ring, should do what Brady does for the Pats---take a pay cut to help add other key players to the roster.

I thought his leadership with Catanzaro yesterday was superb---this team needs more of that. Again, this speaks to his character, which is why I haven't given up on him. But he needs to be willing to make some sacrifices this time around and be willing to fight for his starting job. Neither of these seems likely to happen, which then adds to my growing concern about the team's management.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think that Carson Palmer has a lot of character and a superb work ethic. What concerns me about him are the repeated mistakes he makes under pressure---clearly BA has not been able to coach those mistakes out of him in four years. Ball protection is so key to a team's chances to win ion the NFL, especially for a team that has a good, solid defense that will keep the games close and competitive.

At times it almost seems like Palmer has to make one of his repeated mistakes in order for him to get his resolve up. he is remarkably resilient and he will try like crazy to answer for his mistakes, but typically his mistakes tend to put the team in a hole. Palmer's fist half performances this year have been subpar---it seems to take him a while to rev up the engine. For that reason, the only scenario that I feel makes keeping him valid is to challenge him and his playing time with another QB on the roster---and Drew Stanton is not that guy. Plus, Palmer, if he really wants a shot at a ring, should do what Brady does for the Pats---take a pay cut to help add other key players to the roster.

I thought his leadership with Catanzaro yesterday was superb---this team needs more of that. Again, this speaks to his character, which is why I haven't given up on him. But he needs to be willing to make some sacrifices this time around and be willing to fight for his starting job. Neither of these seems likely to happen, which then adds to my growing concern about the team's management.

I am saying for what he is, he is pretty damn good for the price because the price of a good QB or even a legit starter is going out the roof every year. I want us to draft a QB this year early but still hold onto the benefit which is Palmer till we can then make the transition which is coming... but to drop him now into the unknown for something like a Cutler makes no sense in my opinion and when a team tanks everyone looks bad and a majority of the our woes are not him

 

[Brak]

Some people believe cap room wins championships. We have a top 15 QB, and they don't grow on trees. We keep him happy and throwing until his arm falls off.

Fix the OL and Palmer will light it up. It's not rocket surgery. Palmer is NOT the problem, he's one of the bright spots on the roster. And he's a damn good leader, critical at the QB position.

 

[Russ Smith]

Some people seem to think Palmer's still going to be great for five years, that age won't and hasn't touched him, and...etc, etc, etc. These people seem to think it's gospel truth and how dare anyone disagree. I mean, I think that's pretty arrogant, but hey, they're allowed to think they're infallible when they certainly, in reality, are fallible.

To end the above hyperbole, there's two sides to this issue. Some, myself included, think age has caught up with Palmer. Would anyone here want to pay huge money for a finished QB who will only drag the team down further? I'm not saying you have to agree with me on if he's finished but, broadly, who would want to pay big money for that? Nobody.

The question is whether or not he's past his time on the football field. Lots of smart people, like myself, think he is. Lots of smart people disagree. Unfortunately, lots of those smart people who disagree are acting really dumb pretending that the other side wants to cut a perfectly serviceable QB. Yeah, if we don't think he's serviceable, then it's a SMART move to cut him. A-duh lol

Million arguments and none of us know if we're right but.

Assume you're right. Would you rather dump Palmer now and draft a QB in a bad QB draft without a high pick, or play him next year, watch his further age eroded play cost you games, and then draft a QB next year in a better QB draft with possibly a higher pick?

That is, if you're right and he's lost it, he'll be even worse next year and the team will get a higher pick to replace him in a better draft for QB's.

Now if we're getting someone by trade or FA that's better and younger than Palmer by all means.

But if the argument is dump him use the cap room and draft his replacement, you should do that NEXT year.

 

[TheCardFan]

What concerns me about him are the repeated mistakes he makes under pressure---clearly BA has not been able to coach those mistakes out of him in four years.

Forgive me Mitch but Carson has been the same type of QB his entire career. He is a top 15 QB but last year was his best ever and he has regressed back to his norm. He is who we thought he was/is. Warts and all, he is a solid starting QB and we are lucky to have him. We have to find the QBOF.

 

[oaken1]

I think that Carson Palmer has a lot of character and a superb work ethic. What concerns me about him are the repeated mistakes he makes under pressure---clearly BA has not been able to coach those mistakes out of him in four years. Ball protection is so key to a team's chances to win ion the NFL, especially for a team that has a good, solid defense that will keep the games close and competitive.

At times it almost seems like Palmer has to make one of his repeated mistakes in order for him to get his resolve up. he is remarkably resilient and he will try like crazy to answer for his mistakes, but typically his mistakes tend to put the team in a hole. Palmer's fist half performances this year have been subpar---it seems to take him a while to rev up the engine. For that reason, the only scenario that I feel makes keeping him valid is to challenge him and his playing time with another QB on the roster---and Drew Stanton is not that guy. Plus, Palmer, if he really wants a shot at a ring, should do what Brady does for the Pats---take a pay cut to help add other key players to the roster.

I thought his leadership with Catanzaro yesterday was superb---this team needs more of that. Again, this speaks to his character, which is why I haven't given up on him. But he needs to be willing to make some sacrifices this time around and be willing to fight for his starting job. Neither of these seems likely to happen, which then adds to my growing concern about the team's management.

some of those "early mistakes" could also be attributed to the coach scripting the first THIRTY plays every week... which allows the team to just keep on doing what aint working.

 

[Russ Smith]

some of those "early mistakes" could also be attributed to the coach scripting the first THIRTY plays every week... which allows the team to just keep on doing what aint working.

He's actually got significantly more INT's in the 2nd half than in the 1st half of games, 9 to 4. He has a higher % and more TD passes (12 to 10) in the 2nd half but like most QB's when everyone knows you're going to be throwing, you throw more picks. Also getting sacked more in less attempts in the 2nd half because again, everyone knows you're going to throw so they tee off.

his passer rating in the 4th quarter within 7 points, in other words game on the line, is 99.9. In OT, 95.4.

his lowest passer rating is the first quarter but again, only 2 INT's

My biggest concern with him this year is all the fumbles, he had 6 last year, 14 this year. I don't know if it's the finger from last year, that he's getting hit so much more often(13 more sacks in 3 less games) or a combination of a bunch of things but to me that's the concern.

17 turnovers(13 INT 4 lost fumbles) is a problem, if we assume the OL and WR's will be this bad next year it'll probably get worse. I'm going to assume if we bring in a new QB and put him behind an equally bad OL with equally bad Wr's, who are new to said QB, in Arians' system, they might have more than 13 INT's

 

[TRW]

Carson is one tough hombre. As was said above, he is who he is, a bit above the middle of the pack QB. He'll make some bonehead throws but will also light it up at times. Has he "lost" it a little? Maybe, but he's still darn good. The OL issues, WR issues, sparse TE involvement, absence of using DJ in the proper situations (COACHING), etc., etc. have led to this debacle this season. Carson is NOT the biggest problem, not even close. At least IMO.

I think one more year with him is not so bad. I don't think there's another QB to who would be any better. Absent a DJ-like total surprise and drafting an all world QB in the draft I am not hopeful for the future in Cardinaland at the QB position.

 

[cardncubfan]

You know him, the guy which was used as a tackling dummy this year due to our MASH unit offensive line. Now, when given protection Palmer will light a defense up but it does not mean he cannot improvise (btw that means moving around in the pocket too and not being necessarily a wishbone QB) if he has to but he is only human. Palmer is going to make a lot of money if he stays for another year with the Cards and the Cards could only be so lucky to pay a guy the money who is frankly better that half the QBs starting and is a leader. Seriously, I am really befuddled by all these people saying he his getting old and it shows. Unless you think he had developed some kind of Troy Aikman concussion syndrome, you cannot say he has lost arm strength or you are talking out of your respected arses. Hell, the pass rush has screwed him up this year and he has overthrown a ton of deep passes, that is right he threw the ball too freaking far which is hardly an indication that he has lost physical ability. Do we need a young future QB? damn right and we need to address it this coming season... but this continuous arm chair GM stuff around here where the first easy cap release is Palmer is down right asinine

Great post Jet. My feelings to a T. Don't get the dump Carson BS. Best QB we've had since Kurt.

 

[MrYeahBut]

If Carson is gone and we're stuck with Stanton, even after 2017... Just shoot me.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Against the Saints, Palmer had a 110 QBR with a backup OLine and mixed bag of receivers. I would like to go another year with him, and I bet Fitz would also.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I think that Carson Palmer has a lot of character and a superb work ethic. What concerns me about him are the repeated mistakes he makes under pressure---clearly BA has not been able to coach those mistakes out of him in four years. Ball protection is so key to a team's chances to win ion the NFL, especially for a team that has a good, solid defense that will keep the games close and competitive.

At times it almost seems like Palmer has to make one of his repeated mistakes in order for him to get his resolve up. he is remarkably resilient and he will try like crazy to answer for his mistakes, but typically his mistakes tend to put the team in a hole. Palmer's fist half performances this year have been subpar---it seems to take him a while to rev up the engine. For that reason, the only scenario that I feel makes keeping him valid is to challenge him and his playing time with another QB on the roster---and Drew Stanton is not that guy. Plus, Palmer, if he really wants a shot at a ring, should do what Brady does for the Pats---take a pay cut to help add other key players to the roster.

I thought his leadership with Catanzaro yesterday was superb---this team needs more of that. Again, this speaks to his character, which is why I haven't given up on him. But he needs to be willing to make some sacrifices this time around and be willing to fight for his starting job. Neither of these seems likely to happen, which then adds to my growing concern about the team's management.

It was my understanding that Brady restructured his contract, which means he didn't take a pay cut he just differed the money he's owed. Am I wrong here?

 

[Stout]

Million arguments and none of us know if we're right but.

Assume you're right. Would you rather dump Palmer now and draft a QB in a bad QB draft without a high pick, or play him next year, watch his further age eroded play cost you games, and then draft a QB next year in a better QB draft with possibly a higher pick?

That is, if you're right and he's lost it, he'll be even worse next year and the team will get a higher pick to replace him in a better draft for QB's.

Now if we're getting someone by trade or FA that's better and younger than Palmer by all means.

But if the argument is dump him use the cap room and draft his replacement, you should do that NEXT year.

I'd rather dump Palmer now in this scenario, do all we can to identify a QBOF through the draft and/or trade, and get a cheap vet to fill in. If the vet sucks and gets us a high draft pick in the next draft, we will have done exactly the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

 

[TJ]

I'd rather dump Palmer now in this scenario, do all we can to identify a QBOF through the draft and/or trade, and get a cheap vet to fill in. If the vet sucks and gets us a high draft pick in the next draft, we will have done exactly the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

A "cheap vet" is gonna cost between $5-$10 million. The savings is marginal when you consider that you still have to find someone else.

So we're clear, what you're saying is that you're comfortable with a rebuild season to save $0-$5 mil on the cap?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SO91]

What's more likely: This front office improving/fixing the OL so the QB doesn't get killed every time he drops back, or this team finally getting a franchise QB via the next draft? If I were gambling, I'd rather gamble on the fix the OL option. With time, I think Carson is good enough for this team to be competitive and challenge for a SB. I know how much we all want to draft that franchise QB, but I just don't see it this year. I don't even know if this franchise is capable of it.

 

[Stout]

A "cheap vet" is gonna cost between $5-$10 million. The savings is marginal when you consider that you still have to find someone else.

So we're clear, what you're saying is that you're comfortable with a rebuild season to save $0-$5 mil on the cap?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow, do you have problems with, you know, basic comprehension. My post was an answer to a scenario of "If Palmer's going to suck so bad it lands us a high draft pick, would you rather..." A specific answer to a specific situation.

Also, your argument falsely takes for granted that we won't have a rebuild season WITH Palmer as our QB. I mean, you can TRY to frame it as I'm all for tanking if I don't want Palmer back, but those are clearly not the only possible outcomes next season. My opinion is that Palmer's over the hill, and I'd rather get rid of him before he hits rock bottom, and have us be PRO-active in getting a QBOF instead of RE-active by clinging to Palmer.

Sure, I could be wrong, and Palmer might be great next season. That's not my opinion, and mine's certainly a valid one.

 

[nashman]

Wow, do you have problems with, you know, basic comprehension. My post was an answer to a scenario of "If Palmer's going to suck so bad it lands us a high draft pick, would you rather..." A specific answer to a specific situation.

Also, your argument falsely takes for granted that we won't have a rebuild season WITH Palmer as our QB. I mean, you can TRY to frame it as I'm all for tanking if I don't want Palmer back, but those are clearly not the only possible outcomes next season. My opinion is that Palmer's over the hill, and I'd rather get rid of him before he hits rock bottom, and have us be PRO-active in getting a QBOF instead of RE-active by clinging to Palmer.

Sure, I could be wrong, and Palmer might be great next season. That's not my opinion, and mine's certainly a valid one.

You could be right, but the chances the Cards draft or get a FA QB better than Palmer? Problem I see in your logic is Palmer does not look over the hill, he is overthrowing receivers and running for his life. Or more often than not hitting guys right on the damn hands only to have them dropped! What exactly are you seeing that leads you to believe he's at the end? He is a few years younger than Brady, Brees is 38, I mean QBs have tend to show they can play very well because of experience, Warner? I mean if Palmer had a Manning like arm I could maybe buy your argument but he has plenty of arm so not sure what you are seeing? Honestly just curious what makes you think he is done?

 

[TJ]

Wow, do you have problems with, you know, basic comprehension. My post was an answer to a scenario of "If Palmer's going to suck so bad it lands us a high draft pick, would you rather..." A specific answer to a specific situation.

Also, your argument falsely takes for granted that we won't have a rebuild season WITH Palmer as our QB. I mean, you can TRY to frame it as I'm all for tanking if I don't want Palmer back, but those are clearly not the only possible outcomes next season. My opinion is that Palmer's over the hill, and I'd rather get rid of him before he hits rock bottom, and have us be PRO-active in getting a QBOF instead of RE-active by clinging to Palmer.

Sure, I could be wrong, and Palmer might be great next season. That's not my opinion, and mine's certainly a valid one.

Calm down. You totally overreacted to a question asking for clarification, because how you're opining it, it sounds like you're fine with regressing at the position as long as you can save a few bucks off the cap.

I'm trying to find a valid, well thought out, opinion on why Palmer is expendable for just any "cheap vet" QB. Because a franchise, who's had historically awful luck at the position, can't be comfortable with a likely downgrade at the position, which in the end, won't do much to save this franchise financially.