That Carson Palmer guy...

[TJ]

Are you saying those are the only QBs Keim can possibly get out of the draft, FA, and through trades? I'm not saying it isn't a tough QB market, but I'm not buying what you're selling in this post.

I don't care if you buy or sell, but if you want to rid of Palmer so easily, you have to have a clear understanding of your other options and have an action plan better than, "there's just gotta be others out there who are better."

Those are the best QBs who'll likely be available in FA. The Bears could choose to hang onto Cutler and find a trade partner, but who knows. There are other options, but I don't see Keim giving up assets and more money for a QB who's arguably worse than Palmer. Plus, a team that's in "win now" mode isn't going to draft a QB to start him Week 1. It'll be to groom Palmer's successor.

You're not improving by ridding of Palmer, and if you try to sign someone who's almost as good as him, it's going to be a net wash on the cap. In short, even the most ardent Palmer detractors should know that with all things considered, cap, assets, available talent, etc., Palmer, unequivocally, remains the best option for 2017.






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[Stout]

Your points are all well taken, TJ. It's not a cut-and-dry situation, no. Even though I think Palmer's past his sell-by date, the other options are indeed slim. I think you're spot on when you say we're still in 'win now' mode--I think that's the mode BASK are in. I just really, REALLY don't want us to hurt the future of the franchise, especially as regards not doing our utmost to find a QBOF, in an ill-advised attempt to win something next year. I'm not convinced we have enough left to make the playoffs next year, let alone go on a run at the SB. If we don't, and we mortgage the future for one last shot...ugh, this season's left a poor taste in my mouth.

 

[Chopper0080]

Are you saying those are the only QBs Keim can possibly get out of the draft, FA, and through trades? I'm not saying it isn't a tough QB market, but I'm not buying what you're selling in this post.

The draft is too hard to predict, but I am wondering what other cheap options you feel are out there other than these?

 

[Stout]

The draft is too hard to predict, but I am wondering what other cheap options you feel are out there other than these?

I think I've made it abundantly clear I don't have the answers. Who do you think I am? Keim?

 

[Chopper0080]

Your points are all well taken, TJ. It's not a cut-and-dry situation, no. Even though I think Palmer's past his sell-by date, the other options are indeed slim. I think you're spot on when you say we're still in 'win now' mode--I think that's the mode BASK are in. I just really, REALLY don't want us to hurt the future of the franchise, especially as regards not doing our utmost to find a QBOF, in an ill-advised attempt to win something next year. I'm not convinced we have enough left to make the playoffs next year, let alone go on a run at the SB. If we don't, and we mortgage the future for one last shot...ugh, this season's left a poor taste in my mouth.

So, you are essentially preferring a young QB ala Kirk Cousins or the draft vs a 30+ vet?

 

[Stout]

So, you are essentially preferring a young QB ala Kirk Cousins or the draft vs a 30+ vet?

Absolutely. I mean, I also would like us to have an older vet insurance policy, though I realize he'll have to be a retread. Palmer could easily be that insurance policy, but I doubt he'd take the pay cut necessary to make that happen.

If Washington lets Cousins hit the market, I'd back the truck up at his door. He's not perfect, but he's good. I'd even consider trading for him if they don't. Even so, I'd consider the trade market and the draft, too. The FA market isn't looking so hot.

 

[Chopper0080]

Absolutely. I mean, I also would like us to have an older vet insurance policy, though I realize he'll have to be a retread. Palmer could easily be that insurance policy, but I doubt he'd take the pay cut necessary to make that happen.

If Washington lets Cousins hit the market, I'd back the truck up at his door. He's not perfect, but he's good. I'd even consider trading for him if they don't. Even so, I'd consider the trade market and the draft, too. The FA market isn't looking so hot.

Cousins is the only guy potentially available who I would move on from Palmer for. I'm not 100% on Cousins, but I look at his competitiveness and how he took the job from RGIII and his age, and I feel he has the best chance to be a top 10 QB. It would be worth the salary hit, and you could structure the deal to make it work in 2017.

 

[Stout]

Cousins is the only guy potentially available who I would move on from Palmer for. I'm not 100% on Cousins, but I look at his competitiveness and how he took the job from RGIII and his age, and I feel he has the best chance to be a top 10 QB. It would be worth the salary hit, and you could structure the deal to make it work in 2017.

 

[TheCardFan]

The draft is too hard to predict, but I am wondering what other cheap options you feel are out there other than these?

The draft is a total gamble with a significant % of QB's not becoming quality starters. Here is a link to QB's drafted each year. Maybe 1 out of 10-15 ends up a quality NFL starter and many of those are after round 1.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position

#1 - we are very lucky to have Carson Palmer
#2 - we need to find a quality back-up that can start if Palmer gets hurt and can be a bridge to a QBOTF. Mike Glennon is my pick but there are other guys out there like Brian Hoyer.
#3 -we have to draft our QBOTF

 

[82CardsGrad]

Really? I'm not reading much Palmer criticism, if any at all. To me, THAT'S an overreaction. Methinks the posters do protest too much.

Seriously?? This board is loaded up with Palmer critiques... Not sure how you've missed them all...

And maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen your response to my question?

 

[Stout]

Seriously?? This board is loaded up with Palmer critiques... Not sure how you've missed them all...

And maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen your response to my question?

"Overreaction alert" wasn't a question

As to how to measure Palmer's effectiveness next season...well, I'm no palm reader (yuk yuk), so I can't predict the future. Unfortunately, if he can't huck and chuck it down the field any more, he's not going to be effective in BA's offense. Sure, BA pulled back on that later in the season, but only after a slew of injuries forced his hand. Do you really think we'll start out next season with a run-first, conservative offense? I don't. If we did, maybe Palmer could cobble together a good season. Good enough to get to the playoffs? I have my doubts.

 

[82CardsGrad]

"Overreaction alert" wasn't a question

As to how to measure Palmer's effectiveness next season...well, I'm no palm reader (yuk yuk), so I can't predict the future. Unfortunately, if he can't huck and chuck it down the field any more, he's not going to be effective in BA's offense. Sure, BA pulled back on that later in the season, but only after a slew of injuries forced his hand. Do you really think we'll start out next season with a run-first, conservative offense? I don't. If we did, maybe Palmer could cobble together a good season. Good enough to get to the playoffs? I have my doubts.

If we can somehow cut him and sign a quality QB, saving money won't matter--it would get us a quality QB. If, however, it becomes a matter of keeping an old, ineffective QB or trying to get a different QB, a bargain QB that would save us money to address other positions, I'd go for the latter. Hey, if we keep him and it turns out age hasn't caught up for him, great. If, as I think, age has caught up with him and he's no good, then why in the world would we want him?

I'm still waiting for someone to excuse his early-season lousy play. You know, before the OL and WR corps imploded. Why did he play poorly then?

Just curious... how to do you measure "ineffective?"

My "question" is noted above... you seem to have missed that as well. Additionally, you appear to be changing the context of your initial post where you brought into questions Palmer's "effectiveness." In that original post, you appear to questioning his effectiveness now, not "next season." So I wasn't expecting you to become a "palm reader," but was merely asking you to specify how you are assessing his "ineffectiveness" today??

 

[Stout]

Right, and after I joked I addressed that question. You did not specify his effectiveness TODAY earlier (as it didn't, you know, say that), but now you are. So, what the hey, I'll expand my answer.

I would have thought my stance on his effectiveness today was pretty clear--he isn't. I don't need a slide rule or a calculator to figure it out either. He simply hasn't delivered this season. That's my measuring stick. He's had excuses these last weeks, but not earlier in the season. Still, a great QB can put a team on his back and carry them to W's. Palmer isn't and never has been a great QB. Good QBs can at least pull some games out for his team that they wouldn't ordinarily win. Heck, Plummer managed it now and again. I'm not seeing that, and I'm not confident of seeing it next season. What chance do we really have of making the playoffs next season, short of a miraculous overhaul and re-tooling of the offense, with a QB that can't do that?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Right, and after I joked I addressed that question. You did not specify his effectiveness TODAY earlier (as it didn't, you know, say that), but now you are. So, what the hey, I'll expand my answer.

Are you saying that your initial post was not questioning his effectiveness - today? Geez... whatever dude...

I would have thought my stance on his effectiveness today was pretty clear--he isn't. I don't need a slide rule or a calculator to figure it out either. He simply hasn't delivered this season. That's my measuring stick. He's had excuses these last weeks, but not earlier in the season. Still, a great QB can put a team on his back and carry them to W's. Palmer isn't and never has been a great QB. Good QBs can at least pull some games out for his team that they wouldn't ordinarily win. Heck, Plummer managed it now and again. I'm not seeing that, and I'm not confident of seeing it next season. What chance do we really have of making the playoffs next season, short of a miraculous overhaul and re-tooling of the offense, with a QB that can't do that?

This season, statistically, is at or above his career levels in almost all key categories. Which is quite amazing in and of itself, but all the more so given what he's had to deal with this year. You seem comfy entirely disregarding the multitude of dysfunctional dynamics that have plagued this team from day one, not just "the past three weeks." I find it extremely noteworthy that with only one legit WR in Fitz, and a truly amazing RB in Johnson, and behind one of the most pathetic olines in the league and the amount of sacks, pressures and hits he's taken, that Palmer has performed at the level he has! Add onto this a defense that has not shown the slightest ability to hold whatever lead we've been able to grab which only placed more pressure on a hamstrung offense, again - what Palmer has done this season may rank at the very top of his career performances.
Nobody here that I've seen has ever used the term "great" to describe Carson, so not sure why chose to go there... However, to simply say he hasn't "delivered" this season is, well, just lazy to me... The truth is he has delivered in a very admirable way, given the reality of the situation around him.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Right, and after I joked I addressed that question. You did not specify his effectiveness TODAY earlier (as it didn't, you know, say that), but now you are. So, what the hey, I'll expand my answer.

I would have thought my stance on his effectiveness today was pretty clear--he isn't. I don't need a slide rule or a calculator to figure it out either. He simply hasn't delivered this season. That's my measuring stick. He's had excuses these last weeks, but not earlier in the season. Still, a great QB can put a team on his back and carry them to W's. Palmer isn't and never has been a great QB. Good QBs can at least pull some games out for his team that they wouldn't ordinarily win. Heck, Plummer managed it now and again. I'm not seeing that, and I'm not confident of seeing it next season. What chance do we really have of making the playoffs next season, short of a miraculous overhaul and re-tooling of the offense, with a QB that can't do that?

Look at Palmer's numbers as a Cardinal:

2013: Comp Per 63%, Yrds 4,274 TDs 24 INTs 22

2014: Comp Per 63%, Yrds 1,626 TDs 11 INTs 3 (Missed most of season)

2015: Comp Per 64%, Yrds 4,671 TDs 35 INTs 11

2016: Comp Per 62%, Yrds 3,694 TDs 22 INTs 13 (2 games left)


His numbers this year are not that far off from what he has done in the past.

Yes great QBs can carry their team with help. However a QB can't force his WRs to hang onto the ball in critical situations. A QB can't kick field goals. A QB can't punt. A QB can't cover kicks.

I'm not seeing the "Palmer is not effective" that you are suggesting. I think Palmer is still effective enough to win but he can't do it alone.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Right, and after I joked I addressed that question. You did not specify his effectiveness TODAY earlier (as it didn't, you know, say that), but now you are. So, what the hey, I'll expand my answer.

I would have thought my stance on his effectiveness today was pretty clear--he isn't. I don't need a slide rule or a calculator to figure it out either. He simply hasn't delivered this season. That's my measuring stick. He's had excuses these last weeks, but not earlier in the season. Still, a great QB can put a team on his back and carry them to W's. Palmer isn't and never has been a great QB. Good QBs can at least pull some games out for his team that they wouldn't ordinarily win. Heck, Plummer managed it now and again. I'm not seeing that, and I'm not confident of seeing it next season. What chance do we really have of making the playoffs next season, short of a miraculous overhaul and re-tooling of the offense, with a QB that can't do that?

Actually, Palmer has had quite a few comebacks for wins in his career. I still want you to show me an example this season where his physical skills have eroded due to age... I have not

 

[nashman]

Exactly jet stream I asked as well what exactly are you seeing that makes you think Palmer is done? Never answered I guess it's just a hunch because no physical issues appear to be stopping Palmer from being who he was last year as well as fairly solid this year with everything going wrong. I just don't get the Palmer hate it's like people forgot the garbage we've had since Kurt! Again Palmer is healthy throwing the ball strong not sure what people want him to do. He's not Wilson he's not gonna run all over the place and make something out of nothing. Personally I hate that garbage offense Seattle runs they purely rely on improve, when it doesn't work well they can't score. Palmer is perfect for Arians offense he just needs time and not to be beaten to a pulp behind a terrible Oline.

 

[Stout]

Actually, Palmer has had quite a few comebacks for wins in his career. I still want you to show me an example this season where his physical skills have eroded due to age... I have not

Well, I want YOU to prove to ME why he's going to be good for us next year. I'm tired of the blameless Carson trend here. I'm not a suspect getting grilled in an interview room; I don't have to prove anything, or give you examples. How about the Carson backers give ME quantifiable evidence as to why I should have confidence in him moving forward? Sounds a lot better to me

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well, I want YOU to prove to ME why he's going to be good for us next year. I'm tired of the blameless Carson trend here. I'm not a suspect getting grilled in an interview room; I don't have to prove anything, or give you examples. How about the Carson backers give ME quantifiable evidence as to why I should have confidence in him moving forward? Sounds a lot better to me

Wrong... I, along with others have proven that Palmer's 2016 season - statistically, is essentially on par with his career averages... all while he has had some of the worst weapons of his career at his disposal! So, how 'bout you prove why we shouldn't expect Palmer to produce at these levels again next season?

 

[Cardiac]

Well, I want YOU to prove to ME why he's going to be good for us next year. I'm tired of the blameless Carson trend here. I'm not a suspect getting grilled in an interview room; I don't have to prove anything, or give you examples. How about the Carson backers give ME quantifiable evidence as to why I should have confidence in him moving forward? Sounds a lot better to me

Honestly, how many Cards games have you watched this year?

I have gotten frustrated several times with Carson holding the ball too long and taking a sack or the occasional forced throw but the VAST majority of the time he is doing the right thing at the right time.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Well, I want YOU to prove to ME why he's going to be good for us next year. I'm tired of the blameless Carson trend here. I'm not a suspect getting grilled in an interview room; I don't have to prove anything, or give you examples. How about the Carson backers give ME quantifiable evidence as to why I should have confidence in him moving forward? Sounds a lot better to me

That deep rifle shot to Nelson doing his Martay Jenkins impersonation which JJ dropped. There are ton of passes he has then also completed this year which even the announcers say not many QBs in the league could do. A majority of his deep passes which have been incomplete have been overthrown, take your pick through out the season and that is hardly the sign of a QB who is lacking physical skill. Maybe they have been over thrown because his line is really special this year about allowing him personal meet and greets with defensive linemen. I do not mind showing proof because I am not being grilled and neither or you, at least I do not view it that way. Now if you say you have a strong hunch, I will not argue that but you are stating this as if the proof is in the pudding from this season and I do not see or rather feel what you do Stout... we will see

 

[MrYeahBut]

If Stanton is the starting QB next year... Kill me now!!

 

[Covert Rain]

Palmer even though I believe will continue to break our hearts at times is still the best option unless I am missing something on the FA list next year. I might have to review it. Usually someone by now starts a mega free agent thread.

 

[Stout]

Wrong... I, along with others have proven that Palmer's 2016 season - statistically, is essentially on par with his career averages... all while he has had some of the worst weapons of his career at his disposal! So, how 'bout you prove why we shouldn't expect Palmer to produce at these levels again next season?

LOL How about I don't. You've 'proven' you're a homer, and that nothing I say will change your mind, so...why should I bother? I won't change your mind, you won't change my mind, so...yeah.

 

[82CardsGrad]

LOL How about I don't. You've 'proven' you're a homer, and that nothing I say will change your mind, so...why should I bother? I won't change your mind, you won't change my mind, so...yeah.

LOL is right... Most here would probably call me a lot of things, but most certainly never a "homer"... that's funny!
If, by providing not one fact to support your feeling that Palmer has been "ineffective" this season and shouldn't be our QB next season, is your attempt to "convince" me - uh, ok... I guess...