Who is a guy Gee didn't even know was in the league until last week?
The 2007-08 Los Angeles Lakers thread
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Who is a guy Gee didn't even know was in the league until last week?
You mean the guy that schooled the Lakers tonight?
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One things for sure.. The lakers didnt know this guy was in the league until tonite..
Renz
An Army of One
Funny how you show up on this thread when the Lakers finally fall behind by two games.
Looooser.
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And, those were some of the worst officials I've ever seen. I sure hope the Lakers get that kind of treatment when they get home.
I'll tell you. I have absolutely nothing riding on this series, except for individual bets, and I thought it was the worst officiated game I have seen all year. If I was a Laker fan, I would be absolutely livid. When Leon Powe (who had an amazing game) shoots more FTA than the entire Lakers team, something is a miss. It's not like they were shooting jumpers all night either, they were playing pretty aggressive around the rim until the 4th Q and the 3's brought them back.
That must have been a painful game to watch as a Lakers fan, but you can take that comeback at the end of the game as a positive to build on for the 3 Lakers games at home.
I very, very rarely complain about whistles (or lackthereof), but this case was ridiculous. Even the announcers were getting into it.
Joe L
The people's champ
it is called the "smack" shack after all.
Renz
An Army of One
No team is going to win on the road when the home team has an almost 4-1 advantage in free throws.
I'm not blaming that for the loss, but come on!
Joe L
The people's champ
The Celtics owned them in the paint on offense. Lakers became an outside shooting team. When you attempt most of your shots in the paint you probably going to have a 4-1 advantage in free throws.
Alot of lakers fans whining going on in here today..
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I don't think so. The Lakers were aggressive for the first 3 quarters, became a jump shooting team in the 4th and they shot the ball extremely well, which got them back into the game.
This practically the exact ooposite of the game I saw..
Joe L
The people's champ
yea, an aggressive shooting team for the first 2 quarters...not 3. The Celtics dominated in defense in the 2nd & 3rd quarter. Not sure what game you were watching.
That's not what the shot charts say. Nor peoples eyes who watched the game.
But whatever..
But however, he saw the actual game that was played. Not the one you watched in your freshly minted "Cee" green jersey. There's no bias in your recollections...no.
Celtics:
45 perimeter shots
23 shots in the key
Points in paint: 34
38 free throws
Lakers:
42 perimeter shots
41 shots in the key
Points in paint: 40
10 free throws
5 more FG made. 6 pt loss.
45 perimeter shots
23 shots in the key
Points in paint: 34
38 free throws
Lakers:
42 perimeter shots
41 shots in the key
Points in paint: 40
10 free throws
5 more FG made. 6 pt loss.
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Doesn't surprise me at all.
I don't even think that you know what game you were watching. First you say that the Celtics owned them in the paint (which was not the case) now you say that the Lakers were aggressive for 2 out of the 4 quarters when I say that it was 3 out of the 4. Even though the Lakers missed a ton of shots, and were fouled a ton, and the Celtics played good D in the 3rd, doesn't mean that they weren't aggressive.
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Game. Set. Match.
Joe L
The people's champ
First of all , they had 34 points in the paint. Second of all they shot 38 FTs which most come from fouls in the paint. That equals domination IN THE PAINT. Had the fouls not occurred, those 34 pts would have probably doubled....get it. The FTs will not show as points from the paint.
The Lakers were aggressive in 2 quarters. The first and the last quarter. Celtics dominated the 3rd quarter and the second. They got their lead in the second and third. Nuff said.
GAME SET MATCH!
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If the fouls were called anywhere evenly in this game, the Lakers should have shot around 30 free throws. It would make the "domination" non existent.
The Lakers weren't aggressive going to the paint in the 4th quarter, exactly the opposite. They hit what, 7 or 8 3 pointers? A finals record. They were the jump shooting team that you claimed that they were in the 2nd and 3rd quarters in the 4th quarter, by a long shot. I think you are confusing being aggressive, and having good scoring quarters.
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No, the issue was that the Lakers were jumpshooting all night, which the data shows was incorrect. Again, I don't think anyone is contesting that the Lakers fouled the Celts. But that's not the disparity. 19 fts to 2 in the first half, and one of the 2 was a technical. Most of the Celts fouls on the Lakers were on the perimeter, in tranistion, or away from the ball. Yet you contend that all that action in the paint for the Lakers part did not have fouls. Especially when they packed 3 guys in there. Please.
One other thing to add. The Lakers MUST stop giving The Miracle open three pointers, especially when they are in the middle of runs. The Miracle keeps draining monster threes after the Lakers roll off a 4 or 6 point run, negating the run and catching the momentum back. It is unbelievable that they will just ignore him, but they do it again and again.
Renz
An Army of One
Free throw disparity crucial in Celtics' Game 2 win
by Mike Kahn, Special to FOXSports.com
Updated: June 9, 2008, 12:30 PM EST
Maybe it would be over the top to say they got hosed.
Maybe.
Then again, how much over the top is that perception as opposed to Leon Powe — yes, Leon Powe — coming off the Boston Celtics bench to shoot 13 free throws compared to 10 free throws for the Los Angeles Lakers as a whole?
To say the free throw disparity wasn't the key to the Celtics bizarre 108-102 win Sunday night would either be the perspective of someone in steep denial or somebody else who didn't watch the game.
And while the Celtics hold a powerful 2-0 lead in the series, the Lakers played much tougher inside, drove to the basket more and deserved a better shake from the officials compared to their ultra-soft display in the Celtics' 98-88 win in Game 1.
There was a classic example in the final three minutes Sunday night when the Lakers were in the midst of cutting a 24-point lead with 7:40 left in the game to just a deuce with 38 seconds left.
Kobe Bryant drove from the wing and missed, but Vladimir Radmanovic was there to put it in for the Lakers. Both players took hits as they shot with no foul called. And when Celtics point guard Rajon Rando forced a drive late in the shot clock with no significant contact — he was bailed out with a foul. Granted, he missed a pair of free throws, but that was the tone of the entire game.
That's not to diminish the aggressiveness of the Celtics on either end of the floor until those nearly historic final seven-plus minutes of the game. They earned the victory and the majority of their foul shots. The Lakers just didn't get their share.
Bryant had 30 points and eight assists but once again struggled to get to the line after shooting just six free throws in Game 1. He had seven in Game 2. That's three less free throws than he had averaged in the previous 15 games of the playoffs, and that trio made a huge difference Sunday. The frustration even drew a technical foul from Bryant as well.
The problem was the Lakers never got a read of how to get to the free-throw line all night. Lakers center Pau Gasol spent a lot more time in the lane Sunday, finishing with 17 points and 10 rebounds but shot only one free throw. He converted one of the great field goals of the playoffs when he drove hard down the lane with Kevin Garnett all over him, flicked the ball off the glass with his (off) left hand while Garnett hacked him.
No call.
That was the story all night. Bryant had seven free-throw attempts, Gasol one, and Derek Fisher two. That should tell you the tone of the calls. The officials were clearly infatuated with the men in green.
Meanwhile, Powe played less than 15 minutes and was 9-of-13 on his free throw attempts on the way to a career playoff-high 22 points. He did have 27 points in the final regular season game against New Jersey, but this was an entirely different deal. Powe came into the game in the first half and immediately began going to the glass. And every time he went, the whistle blew and he was firing freebies.
That's not to diminish what he accomplished, nor what he had done leading into this game. He had already taken 47 free throws in the playoffs going into Sunday's game, so he had obviously shown the proclivity to earn the free trips with strong interior play. But for him to shoot the same amount of free throws in 15 minutes as Bryant shot in the two games combined is an astounding statistic.
That isn't really the point either. There is no rule that says both teams can't go to the line. In the opening game, the Celtics shot 35 free throws and the Lakers 28. Anybody who watched the two games saw the Lakers were much aggressive in Game 2, and yet none of the contact inside drew the attention of the officials this time.
The inclination most of the time is for the home team to be the aggressor, and along with the partisan crowd, receive more free throw attempts. But there is an even better solution that continues to preclude logic as it always has in the playoffs. Why not stick a group of officials on a series and leave them there in every round?
Take the highest graded officials and put them in the conference finals, and then take the best three out of the conference finals for the Finals. It would create a sense of continuity for the officials. They would be much more familiar with the teams and the individuals' style of play because of the familiarity produced by the continuity.
And in turn, it would translate into the players and coaches getting a better feel for the way the games would be called. Just from the result of this game Sunday night, there should be some meeting of the minds to prevent it from such an obvious problem occurring. To rectify it, are they going to abuse the Celtics over the next three games in Los Angeles to compensate? Not overtly anyway.
Yes, Leon Powe was impressive Sunday night and deserves respect. But when he shoots 13 free throws, the Celtics shoot 38, and the Lakers 10 — to quote a slew of NBA players — it just ain't right.
by Mike Kahn, Special to FOXSports.com
Updated: June 9, 2008, 12:30 PM EST
Maybe it would be over the top to say they got hosed.
Maybe.
Then again, how much over the top is that perception as opposed to Leon Powe — yes, Leon Powe — coming off the Boston Celtics bench to shoot 13 free throws compared to 10 free throws for the Los Angeles Lakers as a whole?
To say the free throw disparity wasn't the key to the Celtics bizarre 108-102 win Sunday night would either be the perspective of someone in steep denial or somebody else who didn't watch the game.
And while the Celtics hold a powerful 2-0 lead in the series, the Lakers played much tougher inside, drove to the basket more and deserved a better shake from the officials compared to their ultra-soft display in the Celtics' 98-88 win in Game 1.
There was a classic example in the final three minutes Sunday night when the Lakers were in the midst of cutting a 24-point lead with 7:40 left in the game to just a deuce with 38 seconds left.
Kobe Bryant drove from the wing and missed, but Vladimir Radmanovic was there to put it in for the Lakers. Both players took hits as they shot with no foul called. And when Celtics point guard Rajon Rando forced a drive late in the shot clock with no significant contact — he was bailed out with a foul. Granted, he missed a pair of free throws, but that was the tone of the entire game.
That's not to diminish the aggressiveness of the Celtics on either end of the floor until those nearly historic final seven-plus minutes of the game. They earned the victory and the majority of their foul shots. The Lakers just didn't get their share.
Bryant had 30 points and eight assists but once again struggled to get to the line after shooting just six free throws in Game 1. He had seven in Game 2. That's three less free throws than he had averaged in the previous 15 games of the playoffs, and that trio made a huge difference Sunday. The frustration even drew a technical foul from Bryant as well.
The problem was the Lakers never got a read of how to get to the free-throw line all night. Lakers center Pau Gasol spent a lot more time in the lane Sunday, finishing with 17 points and 10 rebounds but shot only one free throw. He converted one of the great field goals of the playoffs when he drove hard down the lane with Kevin Garnett all over him, flicked the ball off the glass with his (off) left hand while Garnett hacked him.
No call.
That was the story all night. Bryant had seven free-throw attempts, Gasol one, and Derek Fisher two. That should tell you the tone of the calls. The officials were clearly infatuated with the men in green.
Meanwhile, Powe played less than 15 minutes and was 9-of-13 on his free throw attempts on the way to a career playoff-high 22 points. He did have 27 points in the final regular season game against New Jersey, but this was an entirely different deal. Powe came into the game in the first half and immediately began going to the glass. And every time he went, the whistle blew and he was firing freebies.
That's not to diminish what he accomplished, nor what he had done leading into this game. He had already taken 47 free throws in the playoffs going into Sunday's game, so he had obviously shown the proclivity to earn the free trips with strong interior play. But for him to shoot the same amount of free throws in 15 minutes as Bryant shot in the two games combined is an astounding statistic.
That isn't really the point either. There is no rule that says both teams can't go to the line. In the opening game, the Celtics shot 35 free throws and the Lakers 28. Anybody who watched the two games saw the Lakers were much aggressive in Game 2, and yet none of the contact inside drew the attention of the officials this time.
The inclination most of the time is for the home team to be the aggressor, and along with the partisan crowd, receive more free throw attempts. But there is an even better solution that continues to preclude logic as it always has in the playoffs. Why not stick a group of officials on a series and leave them there in every round?
Take the highest graded officials and put them in the conference finals, and then take the best three out of the conference finals for the Finals. It would create a sense of continuity for the officials. They would be much more familiar with the teams and the individuals' style of play because of the familiarity produced by the continuity.
And in turn, it would translate into the players and coaches getting a better feel for the way the games would be called. Just from the result of this game Sunday night, there should be some meeting of the minds to prevent it from such an obvious problem occurring. To rectify it, are they going to abuse the Celtics over the next three games in Los Angeles to compensate? Not overtly anyway.
Yes, Leon Powe was impressive Sunday night and deserves respect. But when he shoots 13 free throws, the Celtics shoot 38, and the Lakers 10 — to quote a slew of NBA players — it just ain't right.
Joe L
The people's champ
Sympathy for the Lakers? Not until they earn it
Sympathy for the Lakers? Not until they earn it
BOSTON -- The Los Angeles Lakers should know by now not to expect any pity. The Lakers surely understand that they traded away their rights to sympathy, maybe permanently, when they shipped so little to Memphis and stole Pau Gasol.
The infamous foul that wasn't called on Derek Fisher in the San Antonio series won't soon be forgotten, either.
So …
As unfair as a fuming Phil Jackson found the Game 2 free-throw count -- and as frustrating as it had to be for L.A. to fall just short after Sunday night's epic fourth-quarter scramble -- this is the Lakers' reality:
No one with a neutral interest in these NBA Finals is bound to feel sorry for the Zen Men, because the Lakers wouldn't be here without the midseason gift of Gasol from the Grizzlies. Or because they clinched a series-turning road win over the savvy Spurs on a non-call that the league later publicly acknowledged as erroneous.
Or because the Boston Celtics happen to be outplaying them in so many categories.
Jackson justifiably questioned some of the officiating in the Celtics' 108-102 triumph Sunday night, which resulted in 38 trips to the free-throw line for the hosts compared to the Lakers' 10, but he also admitted repeatedly telling his team that "we just can't play any worse than this." Suddenly sporting a five-game Finals losing streak to go with those nine rings, Jackson knows the reason for that, too: Boston has clearly been the better team so far.
The Celtics aren't just faring better with the referees. They're causing a lot of L.A.'s problems.
Said Fisher, Jackson's on-court sage: "By no means do we feel like we're in a hole that we can't recover from, that this series is over."
However …
"We have to clean up some of the things we're doing," Fisher conceded.
It's a rather long list, actually -- a list far longer than pre-Finals forecasts (most of which heavily favored L.A.) would ever have suggested.
Apart from a nightmarish final eight minutes in which the hosts got suckered into trying to run out the clock rather than cement their 24-point lead, Boston has shamed the Lakers with its crisper ball movement, more active bench and overall energy, all areas where the Celtics were thought to be deficient.
The Celtics are repeatedly finding the open man (31 assists on 36 field goals on Sunday) and hitting their 3-pointers (clutch 9-for-14 accuracy from long range). They're also winning the physicality game on the front line as well as lots of individual battles, whether it's young Rajon Rondo (16 assists) playing beyond his years against the cagey Fisher or Sunday's Cinderella, Leon Powe, who dominated more experienced energy guys like Ronny Turiaf and Luke Walton to score 21 points in 15 minutes.
It likewise didn't hurt Boston that Paul Pierce -- although not quite at full speed after his Game 1 sprained knee scare -- was moving well enough to score a highly efficient 28 points and win his own duel with a certain reigning MVP named Kobe Bryant. Pierce's performance included 4-for-4 shooting from long distance, eight bonus assists and a game-saving block in crunch time. Kobe had to work a lot harder for his 30 points and eight dimes, then failed to even touch the ball on L.A.'s last-ditch possession with 15 seconds to go after Pierce's two free throws put Boston up by four.
Free throws were undeniably an all-night factor, but so was the Lakers' defense, largely because they haven't played much yet in this series. The Lakers are likewise guilty -- as in Game 1 -- of going long stretches without getting the ball inside to Gasol, which was particularly costly in Game 2 because Pau was so hot early. The Spaniard highlighted his 6-for-6 start from the floor with a gorgeous baseline spin and dunk on Kevin Garnett that the Lakers simply had to build on.
They didn't.
Don't forget, furthermore, that the Celtics' lane-packing, kitchen-sink defensive scheme -- which so successfully fenced off LeBron James with help defenders -- wasn't supposed to have worked against the Lakers because there are so many more weapons in Kobe's supporting cast than LeBron's.
But it has.
As Jackson notes: "They're putting two people between [Bryant] and the basket all the time." And Kobe isn't getting enough help; Jackson described Lamar Odom as "confused," just to mention one cast member who's not delivering.
The Celtics, as a result, are suddenly playing with a bounce that has been largely absent for much of this postseason, presumably beaten out of them by the Atlanta Hawks and Cavaliers, who dragged Boston to seven games in the first two rounds. Jackson can only hope that the Lakers' 41 points in the fourth quarter -- which will be recorded as the first 40-point fourth quarter that Boston has ever surrendered on the Finals stage -- erased some of the swagger that was hammered home by Powe's uncontested, end-to-end sprint for a dunk.
"I'm not worried about which Celtics team shows up [in Tuesday night's Game 3]," Jackson countered. "I'm worried about what Lakers team shows up."
Maybe that's because Jackson, even as he branded Boston's 19-2 edge in first-half free throws "ridiculous," realizes that the Celtics are getting to the line more because they're seemingly always in the basket area.
The less aggressive Lakers are not.
They might be 8-0 at home in the playoffs, but the Lakers have yet to see these Celtics in L.A., where the home team must now try to sweep three games to give itself a chance to become just the fourth team in Finals history to recover from a 2-0 deficit, with only one of those comebacks (Miami over Dallas in 2006) coming in the 20-plus years of the 2-3-2 format.
"I thought we were the team driving in the paint and that's why we shot 38 free throws," Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. "If you attack off the dribble, if you play through the post, if you're the more aggressive team, you can get to the foul line. I thought we did that. But we can't go on the road and [stop doing] that."
Nor can the Lakers bank on the momentum of their furious comeback from 95-71 down to 104-102 in the final minute making it all the way back to Hollywood. Not when there have been so many other holes in their game.
Sorry, Lakerland.
"It's 2,500 miles away," Jackson said, referring to the momentum. "It's too far to carry it."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playo...Gm2-080609&campaign=rsssrch&source=marc_stein
Sympathy for the Lakers? Not until they earn it
BOSTON -- The Los Angeles Lakers should know by now not to expect any pity. The Lakers surely understand that they traded away their rights to sympathy, maybe permanently, when they shipped so little to Memphis and stole Pau Gasol.
The infamous foul that wasn't called on Derek Fisher in the San Antonio series won't soon be forgotten, either.
So …
As unfair as a fuming Phil Jackson found the Game 2 free-throw count -- and as frustrating as it had to be for L.A. to fall just short after Sunday night's epic fourth-quarter scramble -- this is the Lakers' reality:
No one with a neutral interest in these NBA Finals is bound to feel sorry for the Zen Men, because the Lakers wouldn't be here without the midseason gift of Gasol from the Grizzlies. Or because they clinched a series-turning road win over the savvy Spurs on a non-call that the league later publicly acknowledged as erroneous.
Or because the Boston Celtics happen to be outplaying them in so many categories.
Jackson justifiably questioned some of the officiating in the Celtics' 108-102 triumph Sunday night, which resulted in 38 trips to the free-throw line for the hosts compared to the Lakers' 10, but he also admitted repeatedly telling his team that "we just can't play any worse than this." Suddenly sporting a five-game Finals losing streak to go with those nine rings, Jackson knows the reason for that, too: Boston has clearly been the better team so far.
The Celtics aren't just faring better with the referees. They're causing a lot of L.A.'s problems.
Said Fisher, Jackson's on-court sage: "By no means do we feel like we're in a hole that we can't recover from, that this series is over."
However …
"We have to clean up some of the things we're doing," Fisher conceded.
It's a rather long list, actually -- a list far longer than pre-Finals forecasts (most of which heavily favored L.A.) would ever have suggested.
Apart from a nightmarish final eight minutes in which the hosts got suckered into trying to run out the clock rather than cement their 24-point lead, Boston has shamed the Lakers with its crisper ball movement, more active bench and overall energy, all areas where the Celtics were thought to be deficient.
The Celtics are repeatedly finding the open man (31 assists on 36 field goals on Sunday) and hitting their 3-pointers (clutch 9-for-14 accuracy from long range). They're also winning the physicality game on the front line as well as lots of individual battles, whether it's young Rajon Rondo (16 assists) playing beyond his years against the cagey Fisher or Sunday's Cinderella, Leon Powe, who dominated more experienced energy guys like Ronny Turiaf and Luke Walton to score 21 points in 15 minutes.
It likewise didn't hurt Boston that Paul Pierce -- although not quite at full speed after his Game 1 sprained knee scare -- was moving well enough to score a highly efficient 28 points and win his own duel with a certain reigning MVP named Kobe Bryant. Pierce's performance included 4-for-4 shooting from long distance, eight bonus assists and a game-saving block in crunch time. Kobe had to work a lot harder for his 30 points and eight dimes, then failed to even touch the ball on L.A.'s last-ditch possession with 15 seconds to go after Pierce's two free throws put Boston up by four.
Free throws were undeniably an all-night factor, but so was the Lakers' defense, largely because they haven't played much yet in this series. The Lakers are likewise guilty -- as in Game 1 -- of going long stretches without getting the ball inside to Gasol, which was particularly costly in Game 2 because Pau was so hot early. The Spaniard highlighted his 6-for-6 start from the floor with a gorgeous baseline spin and dunk on Kevin Garnett that the Lakers simply had to build on.
They didn't.
Don't forget, furthermore, that the Celtics' lane-packing, kitchen-sink defensive scheme -- which so successfully fenced off LeBron James with help defenders -- wasn't supposed to have worked against the Lakers because there are so many more weapons in Kobe's supporting cast than LeBron's.
But it has.
As Jackson notes: "They're putting two people between [Bryant] and the basket all the time." And Kobe isn't getting enough help; Jackson described Lamar Odom as "confused," just to mention one cast member who's not delivering.
The Celtics, as a result, are suddenly playing with a bounce that has been largely absent for much of this postseason, presumably beaten out of them by the Atlanta Hawks and Cavaliers, who dragged Boston to seven games in the first two rounds. Jackson can only hope that the Lakers' 41 points in the fourth quarter -- which will be recorded as the first 40-point fourth quarter that Boston has ever surrendered on the Finals stage -- erased some of the swagger that was hammered home by Powe's uncontested, end-to-end sprint for a dunk.
"I'm not worried about which Celtics team shows up [in Tuesday night's Game 3]," Jackson countered. "I'm worried about what Lakers team shows up."
Maybe that's because Jackson, even as he branded Boston's 19-2 edge in first-half free throws "ridiculous," realizes that the Celtics are getting to the line more because they're seemingly always in the basket area.
The less aggressive Lakers are not.
They might be 8-0 at home in the playoffs, but the Lakers have yet to see these Celtics in L.A., where the home team must now try to sweep three games to give itself a chance to become just the fourth team in Finals history to recover from a 2-0 deficit, with only one of those comebacks (Miami over Dallas in 2006) coming in the 20-plus years of the 2-3-2 format.
"I thought we were the team driving in the paint and that's why we shot 38 free throws," Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. "If you attack off the dribble, if you play through the post, if you're the more aggressive team, you can get to the foul line. I thought we did that. But we can't go on the road and [stop doing] that."
Nor can the Lakers bank on the momentum of their furious comeback from 95-71 down to 104-102 in the final minute making it all the way back to Hollywood. Not when there have been so many other holes in their game.
Sorry, Lakerland.
"It's 2,500 miles away," Jackson said, referring to the momentum. "It's too far to carry it."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playo...Gm2-080609&campaign=rsssrch&source=marc_stein
Oh, how shocking. Stein is siding with Boston. Wake me up when 2 + 2 = 4.
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