The 2017-2018 Around the NBA thread

[Cheesebeef]

Yes, I know. But it's interesting that, in politics, you're one of the few willing to call out your own side for malfeasance. Is the difference that sports are just entertainment and therefore don't matter?

Maybe, but the truth is I don't begrudge dirty players from other teams either. It's why I never got crazy about Bowen and The Spurs. Sure, I HATED them but that's because they just owned our asses mentally. And I feel like a lot of great team has their cheap shot artist since those thug Pistons back in the late 80's. There's a nastiness title teams have to them whether it's swagger or sheer brutality.

 

[BC867]

Bledsoe IS NOT NEAR an All-Star. That's a joke dude.

There is a big difference between stats (all star) and being a valuable player to your team. Suns management needs to realize that if they are indeed going to shop him.

Bledsoe is neither a skilled Point Guard nor a skilled Shooting Guard. And he is not the defensive specialist that he was once considered.

Would you want the ball in his hands for the last two minutes of a close game? Yes.

Do you expect him to make the rest of the team better during his portion of the remaining 46 minutes? No.

He definitely fits the definition of tweener. And that is a specialist, not a steady facilitator.

 

[Hoop Head]

The next time someone outside Phoenix or this board says it will be the first.

Lol... recognition Bledsoe has gotten? From who?!

The Cavs Arent worried about the next month and they sure as hell aren't trading their possible future for Bledsoe. That's laughable homerism, Poop Head.

With all of the tank talk and Knight hate over the last year I honestly forgot that there are good number of Suns fans who have disliked Bledsoe ever since he's been here. That was only amplified when the team chose him over Dragic, or however you want to look at how the 3 headed Point Guard lineup was broken up with Bledsoe being the last Suns player of the bunch. He's not praised here but I know a lot of people came around on him last season. I think some finally let the Dragic/Bledsoe debate be put to rest, finally, despite there never being a legit reason for us fans to choose one or the other instead of liking both in their time here together.

These were all returned from the 1st page of a google search for "Eric Bledsoe All Star" and I avoided articles from BrightSideOfTheSun and other Suns fan blogs. Anyone that follows Barkley and what he says about the Suns knows he has no Phoenix biased, he bashes them regularly so I included his take.

From Zach Lowe...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18601276/zach-lowe-eric-bledsoe-devin-booker-phoenix-suns-nba

The Ringer...
https://www.theringer.com/2017/1/23...ciated-point-guard-in-the-league-f65b03f856ee

Barkley picking him for the All-Star reserves last year on TNT...

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3 Reasons Bledsoe should be an All-Star...
http://www.nba.com/suns/three-reasons-why-bledsoe-should-be-all-star/#gref

Pistons talking about adding Bledsoe making them a playoff team...
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017...-no-for-the-detroit-pistonsnba-trade-deadline

I know Greg Esposito is a local reporter but if Paul Coro wrote this I think people here would take it a bit more seriously but it is yet another article talking about Bledsoe's talent while being with the Suns.
http://www.sports360az.com/2016/12/eric-bledsoe-suns-lost-star/

 

[pokerface]

I dont know man... Bledsoe puts up good numbers and I've always considered him a borderline allstar. But is it coincidence that our playoff drought coincides with his tenure here? As a facilitator he's kind of lacking. He has a shoot first mentality and is not setting up his team. I mean how about this...What player does he have chemistry with as far as passing to? We already know Ulis and Williams have a chemistry thing and it was only one season.

I think having a young team we need a PG setting them up with easy stuff to get their confidence going.

 

[Hoop Head]

I dont know man... Bledsoe puts up good numbers and I've always considered him a borderline allstar. But is it coincidence that our playoff drought coincides with his tenure here? As a facilitator he's kind of lacking. He has a shoot first mentality and is not setting up his team. I mean how about this...What player does he have chemistry with as far as passing to? We already know Ulis and Williams have a chemistry thing and it was only one season.

I think having a young team we need a PG setting them up with easy stuff to get their confidence going.

I don't disagree with your take at all. I don't think the teams success during his tenure is his fault though. We were supposed to be tanking and rebuilding when we acquired him but we overachieved, and he played a large role in that. Year 2 of that fell apart because of poor roster management as well as coaching issues that made it so our top 3 players were unhappy. Then Year 3 we ran with Bledsoe and Knight and were still pretty lopsided. Bledsoe got hurt that year, Knight proved to be trash, and Booker stepped up as more than just a late lottery pick.

I think it's odd how almost everyone agrees that Knight was a near All-Star before we acquired him, at least in the season in which we acquired him, but people don't give Bledsoe credit. He's a good player but he's just not the sort of PG who helps produce wins for your team. He'd be good on a team like Cleveland in which he wouldn't be their primary ball handler. Our plan since we've had him though has been having him share playmaking duties with another player though, first Dragic, then IT, then Knight, and finally we made him our PG but I think that was more or less by default. He isn't the best PG we have but he won't be our starting SG with Booker on the team, and he's ended up being forced to play as our lead playmaker even though that isn't his skillset. He's put up good numbers and done the best he can but that doesn't change the fact that he's not the sort of PG to lead your team to much success as the primary or only playmaker.

Bringing up Kemba Walker again, he's a similar player to Bled and his team has been at it's best when he has someone else helping him move the offense like Nicolas Batum or Jeremy Lin. Even IT isn't a true PG and he did really well in Boston playing with Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart, two tweeners who helped facilitate on offense, even setting IT up a lot of the time. Bledsoe falls in that score first style of PG which is fine so long as he has someone to help keep the offense going with him but everybody outside of Dragic that he's been paired with hasn't panned out. Knight before coming here was almost an All-Star who shared ball handling and playmaking with a young Greek Freak in a Jason Kidd offense. It doesn't help he's had coaches who were horrible with X's and O's and didn't have a noticeable offensive system of any sort. All of those players I mentioned though led teams in the East, where they play a different style and things are more open in terms of the skill level of teams between the 5-14 seed, leaving out Brooklyn. Cleveland is at the top of the conference in a class of it's own with a few pretenders below them like Toronto, Boston, and Washington but the rest of the conference is a crap shoot and the 5-8 seeds are up for grabs to just about anyone. A lot of people here have even commented about how if the Suns were in the East it'd be worth to go for the playoffs because it'd be a possibility but not in the deep Western conference.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I rarely watch the Suns, when I do the first thing that jumps out to me is that the Suns don't have a strong leader on the court.

Bledsoe isnt in the same league as prior Suns PGs. I would argue that even Marbury was a better floor general.

Switch PGs last night and the Suns easily win.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Booker was trash last night when he was the lead ball handler. It further proves the point that Bledsoe isnt fit for this team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

With all of the tank talk and Knight hate over the last year I honestly forgot that there are good number of Suns fans who have disliked Bledsoe ever since he's been here. That was only amplified when the team chose him over Dragic, or however you want to look at how the 3 headed Point Guard lineup was broken up with Bledsoe being the last Suns player of the bunch. He's not praised here but I know a lot of people came around on him last season. I think some finally let the Dragic/Bledsoe debate be put to rest, finally, despite there never being a legit reason for us fans to choose one or the other instead of liking both in their time here together.

These were all returned from the 1st page of a google search for "Eric Bledsoe All Star" and I avoided articles from BrightSideOfTheSun and other Suns fan blogs. Anyone that follows Barkley and what he says about the Suns knows he has no Phoenix biased, he bashes them regularly so I included his take.

From Zach Lowe...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18601276/zach-lowe-eric-bledsoe-devin-booker-phoenix-suns-nba

The Ringer...
https://www.theringer.com/2017/1/23...ciated-point-guard-in-the-league-f65b03f856ee

Barkley picking him for the All-Star reserves last year on TNT...

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3 Reasons Bledsoe should be an All-Star...
http://www.nba.com/suns/three-reasons-why-bledsoe-should-be-all-star/#gref

Pistons talking about adding Bledsoe making them a playoff team...
https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2017...-no-for-the-detroit-pistonsnba-trade-deadline

I know Greg Esposito is a local reporter but if Paul Coro wrote this I think people here would take it a bit more seriously but it is yet another article talking about Bledsoe's talent while being with the Suns.
http://www.sports360az.com/2016/12/eric-bledsoe-suns-lost-star/

I was a HUGE proponent of the Bledsoe trade because living in LA I watched him burst off the bench for the Clips a lot.

And I was also deemed one of the "anti-Dragic" people, so if you're referring to me as one of those people that hate Bledsoe than you're wrong.

Dude is Armon Gilliam. He literally has very effect on wins and losses and puts up stats because he has the ball in his hands a lot.

Thinking the Cavs would mortgage their future for him just makes zero sense to me.

 

[95pro]

Why do you think they even have to make ANY trade? They don't care about the next month. They don't care about the next THREE months. Hell, they don't even need to care about the ENTIRE SEASON because they will win the East blindfolded with their hands tied around their back.

That means they can wait a month for Rose to come back and another month for Thomas to come back.

And if there's a disgruntled star later in the season and Thomas looks good, they can then use that pick with Love to make a deal.

And Bledsoe's numbers are Armon Gilliam numbers... inflated because he's on an awful team. He makes ZERO impact and that's why despite his numbers no one even THINKS about him as an all-star because his stats are hollow.

Yep Bledsoe has a few game winners here and there but no impact. I’m not sure how he’s made or if he has elevated anyone’s game.

 

[95pro]

Booker was trash last night when he was the lead ball handler. It further proves the point that Bledsoe isnt fit for this team.

???

 

[Mainstreet]

Booker was trash last night when he was the lead ball handler. It further proves the point that Bledsoe isnt fit for this team.

I think the problem for the Suns is that Bledsoe is not a true PG. We agree he is not a good fit for the Suns.

However, Booker is still young enough to make a Harden like conversion to a play maker. The Suns need to make a decision on how they want to play him. This is one of the reasons I would like for the Suns to make a head coaching change.

Although Booker had 6 turnovers, he had 8 assists plus 11 rebounds and 2 steals not to mention 25 points. He is only 20 years old so it stands to reason he will only get better. Booker may or may not be able to play PG but Bledsoe should not stand in his way.

 

[SirStefan32]

I thought Booker did an excellent job running the offense in the first half. Bledsoe took over in third quarter and it all went downhill. Three of Booker's turnovers were irrelevant to ball handling. He traveled a couple of times, and got fouled on one turnover (foul was missed/ ignored by the refs.)

Booker ran the offense far better than Bledsoe did. Eric is a skilled player, but he is not a good primary ball-handler/ playmaker. I've been saying this for years now.

 

[Russ Smith]

someone has to say it, the Warriors are not NEARLY as good right now as the last 2 years. My take.

iggy has already missed a game with his back and he's not healthy and not playing well yet.

Livingston seems to have aged 5 years overnight.

Pachulia has completely lost it, he can't score and he's an absolute foul machine, they seem to think their team defense is better with him out there than with McGee but I'm not convinced.

I hated them getting Nick Young, he's a good player but he doesn't fit the system he's a ball stopper he is not a guy who passes the ball and with the Warriors he is doing nothing but shooting 3's. I much preferred Ian Clark, smaller yes but a team guy.

I think they will get it sorted out and I do like McCaw and Jordan Bell as young guys to plug some holes but honestly if Iggy doesn't get healthy I think they will not be as good as the last 2 years

 

[SirStefan32]

someone has to say it, the Warriors are not NEARLY as good right now as the last 2 years. My take.

iggy has already missed a game with his back and he's not healthy and not playing well yet.

Livingston seems to have aged 5 years overnight.

Pachulia has completely lost it, he can't score and he's an absolute foul machine, they seem to think their team defense is better with him out there than with McGee but I'm not convinced.

I hated them getting Nick Young, he's a good player but he doesn't fit the system he's a ball stopper he is not a guy who passes the ball and with the Warriors he is doing nothing but shooting 3's. I much preferred Ian Clark, smaller yes but a team guy.

I think they will get it sorted out and I do like McCaw and Jordan Bell as young guys to plug some holes but honestly if Iggy doesn't get healthy I think they will not be as good as the last 2 years

I don't understand the Young signing. He is the antithesis of what the Warriors are and what makes them so good. As to Iggy, Livingston, and Zaza- sure they are getting older, BUT I think there might be a bit of a "Eh, we have time" syndrome going on with those guys. Take it easy for a while, then start getting back into it. I think they will be fine as the season progresses.

 

[Russ Smith]

Warriors melting down in the loss to Memphis. They were complaining about fouls the whole game, at the end Curry hit a 3 and got fouled no call. THen Gasol caught a loose ball and they called a foul on Klay and the Wariors argued that. Then Curry drives for a layup gets hit no call and he started screaming at the ref and immediately got a T and thrown out. Then Durant went nuts and they threw him out too.

If there's one player in the NBA the warriors can't guard it's Marc Gasol, he kills us everytime we play them.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't understand the Young signing. He is the antithesis of what the Warriors are and what makes them so good. As to Iggy, Livingston, and Zaza- sure they are getting older, BUT I think there might be a bit of a "Eh, we have time" syndrome going on with those guys. Take it easy for a while, then start getting back into it. I think they will be fine as the season progresses.

Offensively they are just turning it over way too much. In all 3 games the turnovers have been too high, they shot their way to a win last night but tonight couldn't make enough 3's to offset all the turnovers.

Memphis played great defense, James Ennis and Jarrell Martin were fantastic, very athletic a ton of great finishes in transition or on putbacks and great defense.

I think the Warriors are still the favorite to win it but right now they're not as good as they have been. Cavs lost tonight too.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't understand the Young signing. He is the antithesis of what the Warriors are and what makes them so good. As to Iggy, Livingston, and Zaza- sure they are getting older, BUT I think there might be a bit of a "Eh, we have time" syndrome going on with those guys. Take it easy for a while, then start getting back into it. I think they will be fine as the season progresses.

Offensively they are just turning it over way too much. In all 3 games the turnovers have been too high, they shot their way to a win last night but tonight couldn't make enough 3's to offset all the turnovers.

Memphis played great defense, James Ennis and Jarrell Martin were fantastic, very athletic a ton of great finishes in transition or on putbacks and great defense.

I think the Warriors are still the favorite to win it but right now they're not as good as they have been. Cavs lost tonight too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

it's really interesting how quickly the Warriors have gone from a really likable team to just a bunch of ******* and thugs... even though they OVERWHELMINGLY more talent than anyone else in the league.

 

[Russ Smith]

it's really interesting how quickly the Warriors have gone from a really likable team to just a bunch of ******* and thugs... even though they OVERWHELMINGLY more talent than anyone else in the league.

LAst nights game was just weird. Were there missed calls or bad calls absolutely, was it to a point where the team should think they're getting screwed, no.

Curry was mad because he had 4 fouls and then reached in and got his 5th foul late in the 3rd and had to sit. The fact is he fouled the guy, 2 of the earlier fouls were iffy but when you have 4 fouls at that point in the game, don't reach.

I actually suspect Draymond's mentality is rubbing off on the team. Right before Curry and Durant got tossed, Draymond made a play where it looked like he tied up Chalmers for a jump or even a walk on Chalmers,but they called a foul on Draymond. he'd been complaining the whole 2nd half and I think when you do that you won't get the benefit of the doubt. I thought it wasn't a foul, and it was a big call because the Warriors were still in at that point, but he overreacted, the bench went nuts, kerr went off on the refs and then Memphis scored to effectively put it away and shortly after Curry and Durant went off. Steph was right, he got fouled, but it wasn't going to change the outcome, he went off because he'd been in foul trouble all night not because of that one no call at the end.

I think they need to reduce the minutes that Pachulia plays, last night they had cut the lead down to 10 and Curry missed a 3 that would have made it 7.They had all the momentum and then Pachulia single handedly started a run for Memphis. Turned it over then fouled in transition, another silly foul, and then because he was mad he had a postup against Conley on a switch and he knocked Conley down(he acted too) and got a charge. 3 fouls in a couple of minutes triggered a big run and it was like 19 point lead by the time they got him off the floor. Draymond's stuff can drive you nuts but he's a terrific player so you live with it, Pachulia just doesn't do enough good to offset all the stupid stuff he does.

I've seen most of the 3 games and frankly they've played well in about 3 of the 12 quarters they've played

 

[Chaplin]

it's really interesting how quickly the Warriors have gone from a really likable team to just a bunch of ******* and thugs... even though they OVERWHELMINGLY more talent than anyone else in the league.

Winning consistently does that.

 

[BC867]

Winning consistently does that.

In the history of the NBA, did it do it to the Celtics during their run? Did it do it to the Lakers during their run? Did it do it to the Bulls during their run?

Some players were tough, but they weren't thugs.

 

[Hoop Head]

In the history of the NBA, did it do it to the Celtics during their run? Did it do it to the Lakers during their run? Did it do it to the Bulls during their run?

Some players were tough, but they weren't thugs.

I think it did, at least that's the perception of them from fans of other teams. You could add the Spurs to that last also. Over time though a new villain comes about that makes the last one not seem so bad. The Warriors are that villain now that makes the Spurs teams look classier but they whined and cried a lot and were guilty of thuggish play just as much as the Warriors. Same goes for the Lakers under Kobe and the 3 peat with Shaq & Kobe. Time allows a better view on those teams, the negatives go down and it's easier to see what they did well because you're not competing with them anymore.

 

[Ronin]

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[JCSunsfan]

Chandler, Bledsoe, Miami pick for:

IT (as an expiring only, will not play, can resign with Cleveland if he likes, or we can agree in principle to a future sign and trade)
Channing Frye (expiring)
Shumpert (don't really want but cost of doing business)
NJ pick.

Better yet. Option to swap the Miami pick for the NJ pick.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Rockets have been in competitive games in 3 of the first 4 nights. In those 3 games Mike D has given players outside the top 8 of his rotation a grand total of 14 minutes. Fearless prediction! The Rockets are going to 'flame out' earlier than whatever regular season pace they put forth would indication. Also! I predict that in close games throughout the year those numbers will only constrict even more.