The Ayton Plan

[BigRedRage]

This is a joke. Sign him

 

[Sunburn]

I agree. I realize that they couldn't do to Ayton what they did to Ayton.

Like i said earlier, it is a conundrum. He will get the max and is worth the max. But as i also said, it will be a mistake.

edit: i should add, mistake as in crippling us financially which will not allow us to keep our depth we've been having the luxury of having.

Which is more valuable, depth or a foundational piece on the roster?

 

[Finito]

Mature response. Kudos.

Which is more valuable, depth or a foundational piece on the roster?

Stars win in the NBA you can fill out your roster with vet minimum guys we’ve seen it over and over

 

[Sunburn]

Stars win in the NBA you can fill out your roster with vet minimum guys we’ve seen it over and over

Agreed.

 

[Mainstreet]

How motivated Ayton will be to have a monster year if the deal doesn’t happen.

I can see it going either way if the extension isn't done.

It will be tough suffering through the season for this fan if he isn't. I have to believe/hope James Jones knows what he is doing. When Joe Johnson wasn't extended I was really upset. My feelings are more mixed this time around.

Did Flex take down take down the above tweet?

 

[Covert Rain]

Based on contracts you see signed regularly. Look around at various deals on Spotrac.com and they list contract details for all players and all teams. You see more straight deals than incentived because of how incentives work in the NBA, which you can read up on at CBAFAQ.com Options are more common than bonuses but most deals don't contain that I've seen.

Please see my follow-up comment. I wasn't referring to the average contract but the league is full of them. It's also used when you don't want to give a player a ton of guaranteed money. Sounds like this is the case. I found several references to players with built in kickers (Embiid, Jokic, Tatum, Doncic, Adebayo, Fox, Mitchell). Heck even Kebler has a 75K bonus for free throws for the Mavs. I don't think Spotrac is accurate because I found multiple articles that mention all kinds of kickers in contracts and they are not all listed on the site.

Point is this is simply a silly standoff. Nothing that Ayton is asking for is ground breaking or a first.

Which players are cashing in on the All-Star Game?

Being selected as a reserve could mean big money for some potential All-Stars in the East.

www.espn.com

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They say defense wins championships.

The jazz have bet on Gobert and didnt reach the finals. The Bucks bet on Giannis and won.

BUT there's a huge difference between the two, it is miles, and that what makes it worth paying Giannis the max and not to guys like Gobert and Ayton.
All we mention is Ayton's defense in the finals. Those other two guys are DPOY guys.

Paying Ayton the max will be a mistake.

What’s the alternative?

 

[95pro]

Which is more valuable, depth or a foundational piece on the roster?

I agree that Ayton can be a foundational piece. And also have someone be part of the foundation is more valuable than depth.

Stars win in the NBA you can fill out your roster with vet minimum guys we’ve seen it over and over

This is where it's a little iffy for me, you mentioned 'stars', is Ayton a star?


We will pay him. I agree we need to extend him, even with the max. We dont have much of choice. We are betting on his upside.

 

[95pro]

What’s the alternative?

I didnt see your post until i posted up the above. Our hands are tied, we have to pay him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is the link to the interview with Robert Sarver. There is not a lot of information.

Suns' Robert Sarver tight-lipped on Deandre Ayton's contract extension

After being drafted No. 1 overall out of Arizona in 2018, Deandre Ayton can become a restricted free agent at the end of this season.

arizonasports.com

 

[95pro]

MSN

www.msn.com

"Ayton is seeking a maximum rookie contract extension, which would be for five years and $172.5 million and could go as high as $207 million.

Several other players from the 2018 draft class, in which the Suns took Ayton No. 1 overall, have already agreed to max deals, including Dallas' Luka Doncic, Atlanta's Trae Young, Oklahoma City's Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Denver's Michael Porter Jr.

However, ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reports that that talks between Ayton and the Suns have stalled because the Suns do not view Ayton as being in the same class as that group."


I just read this, ouch. That has got to sting a little bit.

 

[Mainstreet]

MSN

www.msn.com

"Ayton is seeking a maximum rookie contract extension, which would be for five years and $172.5 million and could go as high as $207 million.

Several other players from the 2018 draft class, in which the Suns took Ayton No. 1 overall, have already agreed to max deals, including Dallas' Luka Doncic, Atlanta's Trae Young, Oklahoma City's Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Denver's Michael Porter Jr.

However, ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reports that that talks between Ayton and the Suns have stalled because the Suns do not view Ayton as being in the same class as that group."


I just read this, ouch. That has got to sting a little bit.

I do not remember reading those comments from Adrian Wojnarowski.

I'd like to see them linked from ESPN.

 

[Chaplin]

I do not remember reading those comments from Adrian Wojnarowski.

I'd like to see them linked from ESPN.

He did link them.

 

[Covert Rain]

I do not remember reading those comments from Adrian Wojnarowski.

I'd like to see them linked from ESPN.

It has already been posted. This sounds like the "old Suns" tactics which is why people are annoyed. You can bet it leaked from the Ayton camp. It's just such a ridiculous stance by the Suns. You are trying to tell a guy who was ESSENTIAL to our playoff run and put up some of the best numbers EVER by a big man in the playoffs that he isn't in the same class?

How does that even hold muster? I will be the first to admit that Sarver in recent years appeared to turn things around. However, I would also be lying if this didn't sound like it was coming DIRECTLY from Sarver based on his history.

 

[Mainstreet]

It has already been posted. This sounds like the "old Suns" tactics which is why people are annoyed. You can bet it leaked from the Ayton camp. It's just such a ridiculous stance by the Suns. You are trying to tell a guy who was ESSENTIAL to our playoff run and put up some of the best numbers EVER by a big man in the playoffs that he isn't in the same class?

How does that even hold muster? I will be the first to admit that Sarver in recent years appeared to turn things around. However, I would also by lying if this didn't sound like it was coming DIRECTLY from Sarver based on his history.

Yeah. The front office can't tell a player he is not in the same class as the other players. There are other ways to negotiate without going down this road.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah. Can't tell a player he is not in the same class as the other players. There are other ways to negotiate without going down this road.

Exactly. You could have said almost ANYTHING else. We are at the cap, need to limit guaranteed money, we need more flexibility...blah blah blah. This sounds like old Sarver to me. I can't believe James Jones would have gone down that road.

 

[Mainstreet]

Exactly. You could have said almost ANYTHING else. We are at the cap, need to limit guaranteed money, we need more flexibility...blah blah blah. This sounds like old Sarver to me. I can't believe James Jones would have gone down that road.

So many other angles to use without that language. As James Jones was a player it's hard to see him saying something like this.

This is similar to how the Joe Johnson extension was handled. Don't tell a player to go prove his worth when he already has. The puzzler is I think Sarver said he regrets how that was handled.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didnt see your post until i posted up the above. Our hands are tied, we have to pay him.

Yup. I get your perspective. But we don’t have a choice. We just need to hope for the the best that we get near max auton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Eh I think that’s just honesty. Autin showed what he’s capable of in the playoffs. In other words he literally showed that he hasn’t given maximum effort befor that consistently. Is he capable of being in their class? Yes. But unlike them he hasn’t consistently proved he will do it like they have.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Eh I think that’s just honesty. Autin showed what he’s capable of in the playoffs. In other words he literally showed that he hasn’t given maximum effort befor that consistently. Is he capable of being in their class? Yes. But unlike them he hasn’t consistently proved he will do it like they have.

MPJ and Shai’s contracts skew this argument. He’s in those two guy’s class, even better than MPJ’s class at this point.

This is just a bad look for the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Covert Rain

I do not see the exact same language below in the linked article by Adrian Wojnarowski.

However, ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reports that that talks between Ayton and the Suns have stalled because the Suns do not view Ayton as being in the same class as that group."

Sources: Suns, Ayton extension talks at impasse

Deandre Ayton is eligible for a five-year maximum rookie contract extension of $172.5 million, with escalators that could reach $207 million, but discussions on a deal with the Suns have stalled, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[Covert Rain]

Eh I think that’s just honesty. Autin showed what he’s capable of in the playoffs. In other words he literally showed that he hasn’t given maximum effort befor that consistently. Is he capable of being in their class? Yes. But unlike them he hasn’t consistently proved he will do it like they have.

I am not sure it was about effort. I mean, I know that's the easy thing to assume. Ayton's head has been an issue. I think it's more mental with this guy than dogging it. By all accounts he works his ass off in practice. Could he be more aggressive? Hell yes but that is more of a mindset.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So the Suns aren't offering Ayton the max. We can speculate about option years, outs, etc, but it sounds like the Suns aren't offering Ayton a max contract.

Unbelievable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am not sure it was about effort. I mean, I know that's the easy thing to assume. Ayton's head has been an issue. I think it's more mental with this guy than dogging it. By all accounts he works his ass off in practice. Could he be more aggressive? Hell yes but that is more of a mindset.

By all accounts he never worked as hard at practice and studying film his first two years like he did last year.

 

[Mainstreet]

So the Suns aren't offering Ayton the max. We can speculate about option years, outs, etc, but it sounds like the Suns aren't offering Ayton a max contract.

Unbelievable.

The hold up could be on guaranteed seasons and escalators not necessarily they aren't offering Ayton the max or the ability to earn it.