The Ayton Plan

[Chaplin]

@Covert Rain

I do not see the exact same language below in the linked article by Adrian Wojnarowski.

Sources: Suns, Ayton extension talks at impasse

Deandre Ayton is eligible for a five-year maximum rookie contract extension of $172.5 million, with escalators that could reach $207 million, but discussions on a deal with the Suns have stalled, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

3rd paragraph.

 

[Mainstreet]

huh? I didn't say that.

No. The "@" was for your attention so it was included when quoted by Chaplin.

 

[Covert Rain]

No. The "@" was for your attention so it was included when quoted.

Yep, I noticed I didn't expand after I posted that. However, Woj also repeated what is in the 3rd paragraph on a radio interview. He said the Suns are basically telling Ayton he is not in the same class as his peers. Ayton's camp is saying that he deserves to be paid because he is in the same class as his peers. That appeared to be the point of contention in negotiations to justify the overall contract value.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yep, I noticed I didn't expand after I posted that. However, Woj also repeated what is in the 3rd paragraph on a radio interview. He said the Suns are basically telling Ayton he is not in the same class as his peers. Ayton's camp is saying that he deserves to be paid because he is in the same class as his peers. That appeared to be the point of contention in negotiations to justify the overall contract value.

The wording was slightly different but close enough.

 

[Covert Rain]

Flex the flip flopping insider:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

What crap did he throw against the wall that slid down this time?

HAHAHA. He deleted the Tweet after getting ripped by people in the comments for taking all positions and saying something he couldn't possibly know. Typical Flex...my insider sources tell me Left, Right, Up and Down...pretty sure it will be one of those....then sprinkle in some insider information about what Ayton is going to do if he doesn't get his max...that was evidently 100% false.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So the Suns aren't offering Ayton the max. We can speculate about option years, outs, etc, but it sounds like the Suns aren't offering Ayton a max contract.

Unbelievable.

I still don't believe we "know" this to be true. It makes no sense. It's presented as if all those guys got the same contract and we aren't willing to give DA the same. First off, they didn't all get the same contract, that's fact. Secondly, while Ayton is clearly a better player and has a better resume than Porter and probably even SGA, his resume pales in comparison to Doncic's and Young's.

I think MPJ's deal was an absurd overpay and it puts us in an awkward position. Regardless though, as a result of that contract, if we aren't offering at least as much as Porter got, that's insane on our part. But if Ayton's camp is demanding the same exact deal as Luka, that's a very real problem and IMO we'd be just as insane to cave on it. And nothing Woj has said precludes either situation from being reality.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I still don't believe we "know" this to be true. It makes no sense. It's presented as if all those guys got the same contract and we aren't willing to give DA the same. First off, they didn't all get the same contract, that's fact. Secondly, while Ayton is clearly a better player and has a better resume than Porter and probably even SGA, his resume pales in comparison to Doncic's and Young's.

I think MPJ's deal was an absurd overpay and it puts us in an awkward position. Regardless though, as a result of that contract, if we aren't offering at least as much as Porter got, that's insane on our part. But if Ayton's camp is demanding the same exact deal as Luka, that's a very real problem and IMO we'd be just as insane to cave on it. And nothing Woj has said precludes either situation from being reality.

Ha, whether it makes sense or not is irrelevant. I don't know how this is still an item of contention:

“If (owner) Robert Sarver wanted to sign Deandre Ayton to a max contract, he would have done it in the first week or second week of August,” Marks said.

Ayton does not want to accept anything less than a max contract, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and confirmed by Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro.

Unless Sarver or Ayton cave, it's going to be a distraction all season.

I still haven't gotten any explanation as to the benefit of this exercise - what could possibly be gained by alienating a young star when the market has already been set? Yeah, maybe there are things about him that aren't perfect, but unfortunately that still gets max money! Especially for a young developing big man who just took you to within 2 games of a ring.

This whole process has been a travishamockery, and if Sarver's intent is to show he's changed his colors, he's doing a pretty crappy job.

 

[TJ]

Ayton's gonna look good in a Spurs jersey in 2022

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ha, whether it makes sense or not is irrelevant. I don't know how this is still an item of contention:

“If (owner) Robert Sarver wanted to sign Deandre Ayton to a max contract, he would have done it in the first week or second week of August,” Marks said.

Ayton does not want to accept anything less than a max contract, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and confirmed by Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro.

Unless Sarver or Ayton cave, it's going to be a distraction all season.

I still haven't gotten any explanation as to the benefit of this exercise - what could possibly be gained by alienating a young star when the market has already been set? Yeah, maybe there are things about him that aren't perfect, but unfortunately that still gets max money! Especially for a young developing big man who just took you to within 2 games of a ring.

This whole process has been a travishamockery, and if Sarver's intent is to show he's changed his colors, he's doing a pretty crappy job.

I agree he gets max money, from us or someone. We're arguing over the details of a max contract, which vary considerably from one max contract to another.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree he gets max money, from us or someone. We're arguing over the details of a max contract, which vary considerably from one max contract to another.

The Suns aren't offering him a max deal. It's been said through multiple reliable Suns sources, and state radio is playing a Gambo promo saying as much as well. That's why this contract isn't done.

If some want to take comfort in whatever theoretical variance between max deals, that's fine, but I'd imagine almost everyone is most concerned as to whether or not it gets done.

Again, unless he's asking for something totally out of line, why is this all worth it?

 

[Proximo]

By all accounts he never worked as hard at practice and studying film his first two years like he did last year.

I don't doubt that for a second - but if he's changed why is that still being held against him. He's still only like 23. People mature.

 

[Proximo]

I'm curious why is there so much attention being paid to Ayton's deal, but almost none to Mikal's?

To me he is nearly just as valuable, and there is far less chance we resign him because we will give Ayton the max if forced to.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'm curious why is there so much attention being paid to Ayton's deal, but almost none to Mikal's?

To me he is nearly just as valuable, and there is far less chance we resign him because we will give Ayton the max if forced to.

Maybe because Ayton can be a dominant force, while Mikail is viewed as at best the ultimate role player?

That's probably why it's harder to put a number on Bridges. I'd be ok up to about 25 for Mikail...any more than that could be difficult.

Either way, you can max out Ayton and pay Bridges 20+. You can't pay Bridges max money, but hopefully enough to get it done.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton's gonna look good in a Spurs jersey in 2022

Man...don't say that. I can't think of a worse scenario then him going to the Spurs, developing more under Pop than being a thorn in our side for the rest of his career.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns aren't offering him a max deal. It's been said through multiple reliable Suns sources, and state radio is playing a Gambo promo saying as much as well. That's why this contract isn't done.

If some want to take comfort in whatever theoretical variance between max deals, that's fine, but I'd imagine almost everyone is most concerned as to whether or not it gets done.

Again, unless he's asking for something totally out of line, why is this all worth it?

Ayton hasn't said he wants just the normal max, all reports seem to indicate he wants all of the escalators included while Sarver may have drawn the line at the straight max. We don't know and there is no report out there that indicates otherwise. That's the issue with these reports, they can be interpreted many ways because they're classing MPJ's deal with Luka's and saying they're equal when they're not. No report has said Sarver won't pay the $172 max with no options, for example, so claiming that he won't is how you view the reports we've seen. There is enough gray area in all of them that it should be clear to see why so many views here vary on the actual hold up.

 

[Yuma]

I don't know Ayton. I know me. If my team didn't offer me max, and then just matched a restricted offer, even if it was max, I would hold out from returning just because the organization didn't view me as important a year earlier. Unless my team won the title, and I wanted to stay for another shot at another title, I would look around and see how guys forced trades to other teams, and I would go where I was perceived to be wanted. That is unless it is some team I hated, like the Clippers, or it was some place I didn't want to live. Even if I came back, I would never feel right about my employer. I would always know they didn't view me as important enough to sign me when they could. I would feel I am signing just because of the business aspect, and not the loyalty aspect.

I just think, the Suns had a chance with a player who is still evolving, to set that positive working relationship going forward. I am a loyal guy. You show me loyalty, I give it back.

Again, this is how I would view it as me. Probably Ayton views it differently.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Ayton hasn't said he wants just the normal max, all reports seem to indicate he wants all of the escalators included while Sarver may have drawn the line at the straight max. We don't know and there is no report out there that indicates otherwise. That's the issue with these reports, they can be interpreted many ways because they're classing MPJ's deal with Luka's and saying they're equal when they're not. No report has said Sarver won't pay the $172 max with no options, for example, so claiming that he won't is how you view the reports we've seen. There is enough gray area in all of them that it should be clear to see why so many views here vary on the actual hold up.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...landry-shamet-worth-a-lot-more-than-you-think

If Sarver thinks Ayton is more Shai (maxing out at $172) than Michael Porter (who with escalators can max up to the $207), I can completely understand why Ayton is insulted and won't take less.

Even worse, why WOULDN'T you reward him with the supermax if he hits all NBA? All NBA players deserve it!

Would you seriously suggest Ayton take less than MPJ? At this point, it looks like Sarver is trying to use RFA to leverage Ayton into signing a max but not supermax deal, and Ayton is telling him to pound sand.

Great look for Sarver, and great move with a 23 year old who could be with your team for another 10 years!

 

[Hoop Head]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...landry-shamet-worth-a-lot-more-than-you-think

If Sarver thinks Ayton is more Shai (maxing out at $172) than Michael Porter (who with escalators can max up to the $207), I can completely understand why Ayton is insulted and won't take less.

Even worse, why WOULDN'T you reward him with the supermax if he hits all NBA? All NBA players deserve it!

Would you seriously suggest Ayton take less than MPJ? At this point, it looks like Sarver is trying to use RFA to leverage Ayton into signing a max but not supermax deal, and Ayton is telling him to pound sand.

Great look for Sarver, and great move with a 23 year old who could be with your team for another 10 years!

Sarver is looking at it as trying to manage a teams payroll while Ayton is trying to get the most money he possibly can for himself, regardless of whether that sends the team deep into the luxury tax to the point that someone else won't get paid. It's not Ayton's job to worry about others salary, I get that, so I'm not saying that is wrong either.

I'm not saying either party is right or wrong, I understand both sides and wish they could find a way to resolve it and move forward.

If Ayton was more consistent over the last 3 years then I'd be on his side more but his inconsistencies are what allowed the process to get a bit murky. Had he won All-NBA before then escalators would already be included, for example.

Sarver may be telling him that with escalators I can't pay Mikal now because if you hit those then I can't afford that tax bill. We don't know. I'm sure that is something that has been considered because that's an extra $40 million over 5 years, which in luxury tax becomes $80 million, at a minimum.

 

[Yuma]

Most teams that win the NBA title take great risks bringing on high salaried players, etc. It is a risk. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you want a title, guys want to be paid. If you win a title, guys want to be paid. It's your job to pick which guys get paid. As fans we may not like it, but maybe Sarver is willing to let Ayton walk. Maybe we can win a title with a lesser center? That's what the GM, Owner, and Coach have to figure out.

 

[Hoop Head]

Most teams that win the NBA title take great risks bringing on high salaried players, etc. It is a risk. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you want a title, guys want to be paid. If you win a title, guys want to be paid. It's your job to pick which guys get paid. As fans we may not like it, but maybe Sarver is willing to let Ayton walk. Maybe we can win a title with a lesser center? That's what the GM, Owner, and Coach have to figure out.

I don't think Sarver wants Ayton to walk. I think he wants him to prove paying him won't be a mistake. Regardless of if he's paid this offseason, Ayton's salary this season is the same. It's next season that is in question. For a player who has had his maturity and dedication questioned for the last 3 years there really isn't a better test of whether what we saw in the playoffs was turning the corner or trying to get paid, other than asking him to keep it up and prove it this season. That could backfire and Ayton takes it as a sleight, which is reasonable.

We're stuck in the middle as fans. I just hope next season is awesome and don't want to think of impending doom. It's not my $200 million dollars.

 

[Yuma]

I don't think Sarver wants Ayton to walk. I think he wants him to prove paying him won't be a mistake. Regardless of if he's paid this offseason, Ayton's salary this season is the same. It's next season that is in question. For a player who has had his maturity and dedication questioned for the last 3 years there really isn't a better test of whether we saw in the playoffs was turning the corner or trying to get paid, other than asking him to keep it up and prove it this season. That could backfire and Ayton takes it as a sleight, which is reasonable.

We're stuck in the middle as fans. I just hope next season is awesome and don't want to think of impending doom. It's not my $200 million dollars.

Again, I don't know Ayton, but I would take it as a sleight. I would still work hard, take my shot at winning a title this year, but I would view my efforts as building a resume for my next team.

 

[Hoop Head]

Again, I don't know Ayton, but I would take it as a sleight. I would still work hard, take my shot at winning a title this year, but I would view my efforts as building a resume for my next team.

I can understand that. I think my own reaction would have more to do with how I viewed the location and my teammates (co-workers). If I enjoyed it here then sure I'd feel a little slighted but ultimately if I liked where I was geographically and who I worked with daily then getting paid later is ok. So my boss sucks, bosses suck in general. I'd already be set for life so it would be more of whether I wanted to stick with what I knew or see if the grass is greener elsewhere. I'd probably stick it out but I would be prepared to leave just in case.

 

[Proximo]

Maybe because Ayton can be a dominant force, while Mikail is viewed as at best the ultimate role player?

That's probably why it's harder to put a number on Bridges. I'd be ok up to about 25 for Mikail...any more than that could be difficult.

Either way, you can max out Ayton and pay Bridges 20+. You can't pay Bridges max money, but hopefully enough to get it done.

To be totally honest, I'm not sure which one I value more.

I get that Ayton is like a top 3 player at center - but he is a bit flaky and I feel Mikal is rock solid dependable. Actually watching Javale in preseason it has me wondering how much of his playoff success is our system. I actually think McGee can do almost everything Ayton can nearly as well. I think Aytons better defensively on ball, and a better shooter - but really he can't do much more than McGee currently.

I feel like you can and should pay Mikal max if you have to. After all he is a better player than Porter who just got that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Injury is another factor in the negotiations with both Ayton and Bridges.

Leaving money on the table is risky business if the Suns offer is close. This may come down to the wire although I continue to think the Suns have reached an agreement with Bridges.

It may be interesting going into the season if the Suns extend one but not the other.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Everyone of you talked crap about Ayton all year. His camp knows where Jones is coming from. Go ahead and piss Ayton off maybe he will play hard every play then