The Ayton Plan

[GatorAZ]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...landry-shamet-worth-a-lot-more-than-you-think

If Sarver thinks Ayton is more Shai (maxing out at $172) than Michael Porter (who with escalators can max up to the $207), I can completely understand why Ayton is insulted and won't take less.

Even worse, why WOULDN'T you reward him with the supermax if he hits all NBA? All NBA players deserve it!

Would you seriously suggest Ayton take less than MPJ? At this point, it looks like Sarver is trying to use RFA to leverage Ayton into signing a max but not supermax deal, and Ayton is telling him to pound sand.

Great look for Sarver, and great move with a 23 year old who could be with your team for another 10 years!

The Suns would sign him to the MPJ deal in a nanosecond:

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[Finito]

Sarver is looking at it as trying to manage a teams payroll while Ayton is trying to get the most money he possibly can for himself, regardless of whether that sends the team deep into the luxury tax to the point that someone else won't get paid. It's not Ayton's job to worry about others salary, I get that, so I'm not saying that is wrong either.

I'm not saying either party is right or wrong, I understand both sides and wish they could find a way to resolve it and move forward.

If Ayton was more consistent over the last 3 years then I'd be on his side more but his inconsistencies are what allowed the process to get a bit murky. Had he won All-NBA before then escalators would already be included, for example.

Sarver may be telling him that with escalators I can't pay Mikal now because if you hit those then I can't afford that tax bill. We don't know. I'm sure that is something that has been considered because that's an extra $40 million over 5 years, which in luxury tax becomes $80 million, at a minimum.

If he had hit all NBA already then he would be eligible for the Luka max 5 years 207 million and you think Sarver would pay that lol.

Sarver has only given 2 players the max in 17 years of owning the team. Everybody brings up Joe Johnson but why did it even get to that point? Because the year before Joe wanted 10 million a year and Sarver wanted to pay him 9 million a year and then they let him go into the last year without an extension. Sarver has said this is his biggest regret and yet here we are.

 

[Finito]

To be totally honest, I'm not sure which one I value more.

I get that Ayton is like a top 3 player at center - but he is a bit flaky and I feel Mikal is rock solid dependable. Actually watching Javale in preseason it has me wondering how much of his playoff success is our system. I actually think McGee can do almost everything Ayton can nearly as well. I think Aytons better defensively on ball, and a better shooter - but really he can't do much more than McGee currently.

I feel like you can and should pay Mikal max if you have to. After all he is a better player than Porter who just got that.

McGee is a quality back up in the NBA. Dudes been around like 12-13 years we know what he is the entire NBA knows what he is. All the physical talent in the world and some nights he looks all NBA and some he looks like he belongs in the G League.

So Far Aytons numbers have been way higher than McGees in his career and Ayton is 23. This guy averaged 16/10 as a rookie then 18/11 before last year. We’ve asked him to put scoring on the back burner and focus on defense. Remember it was Ayton can’t play defense to save his life coming into the league and now he might be the best defensive center in the league.

 

[Hoop Head]

If he had hit all NBA already then he would be eligible for the Luka max 5 years 207 million and you think Sarver would pay that lol.

Sarver has only given 2 players the max in 17 years of owning the team. Everybody brings up Joe Johnson but why did it even get to that point? Because the year before Joe wanted 10 million a year and Sarver wanted to pay him 9 million a year and then they let him go into the last year without an extension. Sarver has said this is his biggest regret and yet here we are.

Sarver has paid 2 max deals over the last couple of seasons to Paul and Booker. Those aren't the only 2 max deals he's paid. He also paid Amare and Marion. He attempted to pay Eric Gordon the max also. This idea he won't pay someone the max is completely false. One of them was like 2 months back! How you can ignore that to push some narrative demonstrates that you aren't viewing this objectively, at all.

 

[Finito]

Sarver has paid 2 max deals over the last couple of seasons to Paul and Booker. Those aren't the only 2 max deals he's paid. He also paid Amare and Marion. He attempted to pay Eric Gordon the max also. This idea he won't pay someone the max is completely false. One of them was like 2 months back! How you can ignore that to push some narrative demonstrates that you aren't viewing this objectively, at all.

2 max deals in 17 years. Amare...Booker

Facts

Pretty sure Marion was already under contract when he bought the team and Paul has a 4 year deal with years 3/4 not fully guaranteed, that’s not a max deal at all. How you can ignore that to push some narrative demonstrates that you aren't viewing this objectively, at all.

Oh he said he was willing to pay Eric Gordon well that changes everything doesn’t it. He also said he was willing to pay everyone on this team and yet here we are.

 

[Chaplin]

2 max deals in 17 years. Amare...Booker

Facts

Pretty sure Marion was already under contract when he bought the team and Paul has a 4 year deal with years 3/4 not fully guaranteed, that’s not a max deal at all. How you can ignore that to push some narrative demonstrates that you aren't viewing this objectively, at all.

Oh he said he was willing to pay Eric Gordon well that changes everything doesn’t it. He also said he was willing to pay everyone on this team and yet here we are.

LOL In at least 12 of those 17 years, Sarver had the likes of Michael Beasley and Luis Scola on the team. You actually have to have someone worth a max in order to pay it. I know it's not your money, but you don't just throw out 5 year, 200 million dollar contracts on a whim.

 

[1Sun]

LOL In at least 12 of those 17 years, Sarver had the likes of Michael Beasley and Luis Scola on the team. You actually have to have someone worth a max in order to pay it. I know it's not your money, but you don't just throw out 5 year, 200 million dollar contracts on a whim.

True, but he wouldn't give Amare one, and he traded away Marion for the corpse of Shaq so he wouldn't have to give HIM one.

 

[Covert Rain]

McGee is a quality back up in the NBA. Dudes been around like 12-13 years we know what he is the entire NBA knows what he is. All the physical talent in the world and some nights he looks all NBA and some he looks like he belongs in the G League.

So Far Aytons numbers have been way higher than McGees in his career and Ayton is 23. This guy averaged 16/10 as a rookie then 18/11 before last year. We’ve asked him to put scoring on the back burner and focus on defense. Remember it was Ayton can’t play defense to save his life coming into the league and now he might be the best defensive center in the league.

There have only been a handful of players worth the max. He was willing to pay them. That's not the problem. Sarver's issue is overall salary. In the past when approaching the cap he has traded players, picks and balked at contracts in general. The problem with Sarver is when he gets involved he seems to do it in a detrimental fashion instead of letting basketball guys handle those situations. Sarver has done a ton of damage to the Suns reputation that has taken years to recover from. This tactic has Sarver written all over it IMO. There is simply no way James Jones would have approached this in this fashion. Sarver is the owner and should have a say but he needs to leave the tactics to his front office.

Everyone of you talked crap about Ayton all year. His camp knows where Jones is coming from. Go ahead and piss Ayton off maybe he will play hard every play then

Not everyone. Some of us have been critical where he deserves it but making the argument all last season he was putting up some of the best numbers at his position. During the playoffs everyone pretty much was praising him.

 

[Chaplin]

There have only been a handful of players worth the max. He was willing to pay them. That's not the problem. Sarver's issue is overall salary. In the past when approaching the cap he has traded players, picks and balked at contracts in general. The problem with Sarver is when he gets involved he seems to do it in a detrimental fashion instead of letting basketball guys handle those situations. Sarver has done a ton of damage to the Suns reputation that has taken years to recover from. This tactic has Sarver written all over it IMO. There is simply no way James Jones would have approached this in this fashion. Sarver is the owner and should have a say but he needs to leave the tactics to his front office.

You may be right, but the fact of the matter is that this is all pure speculation.

 

[Covert Rain]

You may be right, but the fact of the matter is that this is all pure speculation.

It will never be anything other than that since the Suns are never going to reveal the details. However, between the WOJ report and Sarver's history? Plus, we have seen how James Jones handles himself. If the glove fits...............

 

[Chaplin]

It will never be anything other than that since the Suns are never going to reveal the details. However, between the WOJ report and Sarver's history? Plus, we have seen how James Jones handles himself. If the glove fits...............

How does James Jones handle himself?

 

[Hoop Head]

How does James Jones handle himself?

Like a professional who respects players and excels at building at group mentality amongst players while avoiding any sort of fake sounding corporate BS that alienates players.

 

[Chaplin]

Like a professional who respects players and excels at building at group mentality amongst players while avoiding any sort of fake sounding corporate BS that alienates players.

Got it, your wording made it sound like a negative grouped with the report and Sarver.

 

[Hoop Head]

Got it, your wording made it sound like a negative grouped with the report and Sarver.

I read it as being contrary to Sarver and am fairly certain that was the intent.

 

[Mainstreet]

If we are going to hear something about Ayton and Bridges being extended it should be this weekend with the extension deadline of the 18th looming large and the season starting Wednesday. Admittedly I'm getting a bit anxious.

 

[Finito]

LOL In at least 12 of those 17 years, Sarver had the likes of Michael Beasley and Luis Scola on the team. You actually have to have someone worth a max in order to pay it. I know it's not your money, but you don't just throw out 5 year, 200 million dollar contracts on a whim.

Aaaaaand who’s fault is it we had such bad teams?

I mean I’m just curious. Maybe an owner who thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and wouldn’t let any GM’s do there job? An owner who wasn’t willing to pay any coach worth anything so we got guys like Porter, Hunter and Watson?

Oh that’s right couldn’t possibly be Sarvers fault.

 

[Chaplin]

Aaaaaand who’s fault is it we had such bad teams?

I mean I’m just curious. Maybe an owner who thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and wouldn’t let any GM’s do there job? An owner who wasn’t willing to pay any coach worth anything so we got guys like Porter, Hunter and Watson?

Oh that’s right couldn’t possibly be Sarvers fault.

Your sarcasm game is on point.

Even though you are accusing all of us as Sarver defenders, it looks like you aren't looking at any of this objectively. Because of that, it's impossible to have a conversation. Especially when you come back with nothing but snark and sarcasm.

 

[Finito]

There have only been a handful of players worth the max. He was willing to pay them. That's not the problem. Sarver's issue is overall salary. In the past when approaching the cap he has traded players, picks and balked at contracts in general. The problem with Sarver is when he gets involved he seems to do it in a detrimental fashion instead of letting basketball guys handle those situations. Sarver has done a ton of damage to the Suns reputation that has taken years to recover from. This tactic has Sarver written all over it IMO. There is simply no way James Jones would have approached this in this fashion. Sarver is the owner and should have a say but he needs to leave the tactics to his front office.


Not everyone. Some of us have been critical where he deserves it but making the argument all last season he was putting up some of the best numbers at his position. During the playoffs everyone pretty much was praising him.

He is who he is. He loves to micro manage and he’s actually pretty poor compared to other owners in the NBA that’s why he doesn’t want to pay out these contracts and always goes cheap

 

[Mainstreet]

Aaaaaand who’s fault is it we had such bad teams?

I mean I’m just curious. Maybe an owner who thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room and wouldn’t let any GM’s do there job? An owner who wasn’t willing to pay any coach worth anything so we got guys like Porter, Hunter and Watson?

Oh that’s right couldn’t possibly be Sarvers fault.

Sarver mostly let Ryan McDonough have full control as GM and that didn't turn out so well.

 

[JRakes]

True, but he wouldn't give Amare one, and he traded away Marion for the corpse of Shaq so he wouldn't have to give HIM one.

He wouldn't give Amare the max because his knees were uninsurable. That was a good move by Sarver.

The problem here is both Ayton and Bridges are asking for the Max. We can't have essentially 4 max guys on the team. IMO we need to get the Bridges deal done this year at a $ amount under the max. He's gonna have a big year in 21/22 season and will get max money next year.

Make Ayton prove the playoffs were not a fluke. He will take the check when its there next year.

 

[Chaplin]

I read it as being contrary to Sarver and am fairly certain that was the intent.

Of course that was the intent. I never said otherwise. Words can be misinterpreted you know.

 

[Finito]

Your sarcasm game is on point.

Even though you are accusing all of us as Sarver defenders, it looks like you aren't looking at any of this objectively. Because of that, it's impossible to have a conversation. Especially when you come back with nothing but snark and sarcasm.

I’m not accusing all of anybody I see two guys here you and HH who are going out of your way to defend Sarver when in 17 years he’s flat out destroyed any benefit of the doubt he should be getting. 17 year track record of destroying a franchise I love.

He doesn’t get a wait and see approach from me. He turned a model franchise into a laughing stock for the last decade and some of the stories that have come out over the years are ridiculously unprofessional. The entire NBA media is saying look see he hasn’t changed.

We had this conversation on this board about what’s going to happen when all these guys need to get paid and Sarver talked really loud about how he was willing to go over the cap and do what needed to be done and yet here we are.

 

[Finito]

Sarver mostly let Ryan McDonough have full control as GM and that didn't turn out so well.

Again going cheap and getting a guy who really had no business doing the job he got. It’s what Sarver does

 

[Chaplin]

I’m not accusing all of anybody I see two guys here you and HH who are going out of your way to defend Sarver when in 17 years he’s flat out destroyed any benefit of the doubt he should be getting. 17 year track record of destroying a franchise I love.

He doesn’t get a wait and see approach from me. He turned a model franchise into a laughing stock for the last decade and some of the stories that have come out over the years are ridiculously unprofessional. The entire NBA media is saying look see he hasn’t changed.

We had this conversation on this board about what’s going to happen when all these guys need to get paid and Sarver talked really loud about how he was willing to go over the cap and do what needed to be done and yet here we are.

Jesus. We aren't "defending" Sarver, we are trying to be realistic about the NEGOTIATIONS. Instead of jumping to insane conclusions with little more than a few words from Woj.

Yes, Sarver is not a good owner. Yes, he messed up a lot in the past 20 years. But it has been quite a long time since he's messed up that badly and in fact has made a lot of good moves (like Monty and JJ) recently. That doesn't make him a great owner all of a sudden, but that's not the point. We are discussing why the negotiations are taking so long -- we can all easily say the Suns are incompetent as an organization and move on, but I'm not satisfied with such a defeatist excuse. You don't like it, fine, but attacking (and that is what your sarcastic remarks are) is not the way to advance the conversation. You might well be right about Sarver screwing this up, but I'm not convinced it's a certainty. If anything, my benefit of the doubt is for James Jones, not for Sarver.

 

[Mainstreet]

Again going cheap and getting a guy who really had no business doing the job he got. It’s what Sarver does

Sarver has already said the Suns will pay the luxury tax. Let's at least wait until Monday to see what happens. I think the Suns will sign Bridges or Ayton (maybe both) to extensions this weekend.