The Ayton Plan

[overseascardfan]

Mavs have been marvelous decision makers this last year

They are desperate to keep Luka happy and are willing to try and get guys that may not be good fits in effort to show Luka they are trying get him some help.

I've seen trade proposal of Maxi Kleber, Tim Hardaway Jr and picks but I would swap Kleber with Wood in any potential deal with DAL.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nooooooo, no no no.

Our 2 superstars both thrive in the mid range game, the last thing we need is a clogged toilet of a lane.

The "2 towers" thing doesn't work anymore unless one of them is a lethal outside shooter (and probably needs to be a play maker too). It's been a complete train wreck for Minnesota and KAT is actually good from the outside.

Only searching for answers if the Suns don't trade Ayton.

I do think he can shoot outside if given the opportunity. Actually, he probably fancies himself as a power forward. He doesn't like to mix it up inside.

 

[elindholm]

I've seen trade proposal of Maxi Kleber, Tim Hardaway Jr and picks

That's absolutely awful. Must be a Dallas fan fantasy.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don't see DeAndre Ayton rising to the occasion in this series. And if anyone calls him out on it - I don't see DeAndre Ayton wanting to be in Phoenix next season.

 

[Hoop Head]

They are desperate to keep Luka happy and are willing to try and get guys that may not be good fits in effort to show Luka they are trying get him some help.

I've seen trade proposal of Maxi Kleber, Tim Hardaway Jr and picks but I would swap Kleber with Wood in any potential deal with DAL.

Wood is a free agent, and overrated, so he can't be dealt in a package. I'd actually take Klieber, Hardaway, and Javale. Works under the cap. I'd want a pick or a couple of swaps if they can't trade a pick outright.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Wood is a free agent, and overrated, so he can't be dealt in a package. I'd actually take Klieber, Hardaway, and Javale. Works under the cap. I'd want a pick or a couple of swaps if they can't trade a pick outright.

Giving away Ayton for pure crap would be an interesting choice.

 

[Hoop Head]

Giving away Ayton for pure crap would be an interesting choice.

Klieber regularly puts up good numbers against us. Javale produced just as much as Ayton on a per minute basis. Hardaway Jr is a solid Sixth Man/Microwave off the bench.

You call it "pure crap" and I say it's more than what Ayton offers on his own.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Klieber regularly puts up good numbers against us.

So now we're signing players because they put up good numbers against us?

Maxi Kleber - Dallas Mavericks Power Forward - ESPN

View the profile of Dallas Mavericks Power Forward Maxi Kleber on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

Dude is barely an NBA player.

Javale produced just as much as Ayton on a per minute basis.

You're really trying to compare Javale to Ayton? Ayton is a disappointment, but again, Javale is barely in the league.

Hardaway Jr is a solid Sixth Man/Microwave off the bench.

He's ok, but not a difference maker to any degree, and little upside. JAG.

You call it "pure crap" and I say it's more than what Ayton offers on his own.

You can say whatever you want - doesn't make it true. Really hoping we're aiming better for two nickels and a dime for a quarter trade. If Dallas thinks they can package their garbage for a legit NBA player, I think they'll be disappointed.

 

[Hoop Head]

So now we're signing players because they put up good numbers against us?

Maxi Kleber - Dallas Mavericks Power Forward - ESPN

View the profile of Dallas Mavericks Power Forward Maxi Kleber on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

Dude is barely an NBA player.

You're really trying to compare Javale to Ayton? Ayton is a disappointment, but again, Javale is barely in the league.

He's ok, but not a difference maker to any degree, and little upside. JAG.

You can say whatever you want - doesn't make it true. Really hoping we're aiming better for two nickels and a dime for a quarter trade. If Dallas thinks they can package their garbage for a legit NBA player, I think they'll be disappointed.

I didn't realize Klieber was 31 already. Just saw he was in his 5th year so I thought he was 25-26, which would point towards some upside. He's still a decent backup big but a throw in, not a centerpiece or even #2 in a trade package.

Hardaway Jr would be a great secondary piece in a deal because he's a solid pro who is signed for the next couple of a years on a decent contract and shoots almost 40% from 3.

Javale was miscast in Dallas. Why they signed him, who knows. That doesn't mean he's not a solid backup Center who proved here to be just as efficient as Ayton and able to produce similar stats over the same minutes as Ayton.

The value would be picks, which we're lacking. I don't know what Dallas has in terms of picks but if they gave us their #10 pick this year in that deal? I'd jump on it because we should either be able to add a rotation player or trade it for a solid rotation player.

Ayton is overvalued by some here. Double doubles don't mean much anymore and the dude seems to stop trying once he hits that stat mark. If we can get 3-4 quality players for him then we need to do so because we need pieces to surround Book and KD now. We don't have the luxury of waiting and hoping the light finally turns on for Ayton. This is who he is, a middle of pack Center with a motor problem.

 

[Covert Rain]

Only searching for answers if the Suns don't trade Ayton.

I do think he can shoot outside if given the opportunity. Actually, he probably fancies himself as a power forward. He doesn't like to mix it up inside.

To be a a great PF in the NBA you need to have good hands. Something Ayton doesn’t have. He has to be able to catch the ball and finish cutting to the hoop. Nothing about Ayton’s career says his stone hands are capable of that.

Plus notice what happens when someone fronts Ayton and he is forced 15 feet or more from the basket. The further he gets the uglier his shot gets.

 

[Mainstreet]

To be a a great PF in the NBA you need to have good hands. Something Ayton doesn’t have. He has to be able to catch the ball and finish cutting to the hoop. Nothing about Ayton’s career says his stone hands are capable of that.

Plus notice what happens when someone fronts Ayton and he is forced 15 feet or more from the basket. The further he gets the uglier his shot gets.

Actually, I think Ayton plays best when he is cutting to the basket. I think the shot is there but it needs to be developed. Anyway, it's a lot different hitting an open shot than shooting under pressure from outside.

Regardless, I don't think the Suns want to travel down this road.

 

[Hoop Head]

To be a a great PF in the NBA you need to have good hands. Something Ayton doesn’t have. He has to be able to catch the ball and finish cutting to the hoop. Nothing about Ayton’s career says his stone hands are capable of that.

Plus notice what happens when someone fronts Ayton and he is forced 15 feet or more from the basket. The further he gets the uglier his shot gets.

Ayton's hands aren't the issue, he has good hands but isn't focused enough to catch most passes to him. There's a real issue going on with his hand eye coordination. Someone with stone hands isn't capable of the soft touch he has around the rim or being the finisher on the Valley Oop.

His shot doesn't have enough arc on it for him to shoot regularly from outside. Maybe if he shot more he'd be better at it by now but I can understand why he's not called on to shoot from outside, because his shot has no arc and hasn't improved in his 5 years in the league. If he learned to use the glass to help maybe he'd be a bit more efficient in that regard but I'd rather not keep him around to learn.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

I don't see DeAndre Ayton rising to the occasion in this series. And if anyone calls him out on it - I don't see DeAndre Ayton wanting to be in Phoenix next season.

Yep. Been gently saying this for two years. He is a marginal defensive rebounder, non-existent offensive rebounder, no shot-blocking threat. Good midrange, but who isn't on this team

He is a net deduction. It would be addition by subtraction to get rid of him. Biggest need for the Suns is DEFENSIVE presence in the middle and a genuine "microwave" off the bench. This group will not win this year.

Hate to say this---and i did NOT see this as the big weakness, but our defense is just horrible. Last two games: 130 and 125 against in playoffs when defense is supposed to be even tighter. And this doesn't make me happy to say I told you so. Losing Bridges took away a key defender. I get that they wouldn't do a deal without him. But KD - Bridges is a net loss. KD + Bridges would have been a massive gain.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton's hands aren't the issue, he has good hands but isn't focused enough to catch most passes to him. There's a real issue going on with his hand eye coordination. Someone with stone hands isn't capable of the soft touch he has around the rim or being the finisher on the Valley Oop.

His shot doesn't have enough arc on it for him to shoot regularly from outside. Maybe if he shot more he'd be better at it by now but I can understand why he's not called on to shoot from outside, because his shot has no arc and hasn't improved in his 5 years in the league. If he learned to use the glass to help maybe he'd be a bit more efficient in that regard but I'd rather not keep him around to learn.

They have been an issue since he got into the NBA. It doesn't matter if it's caused by his stone hands or he lacks focus. The results are the same. I agree with your second part though. He can't be relied upon for a steady outside shot. People will just sag down on him daring to shoot from out there. They will double team our other guys until the ball rotates into his hands daring Ayton to beat them.

I guarantee they would rather have Ayton try and beat them from the outside verses the inside and twice on Sunday.

 

[BirdGangThing]

DeAndre Ayton needs to take some self defense classes

I don't care if he kicks somebody in the nuts and screams "That's my purse!"

It's better than literally stepping off the court and watching KD battle the Joker

Unforgivable

 

[Raindog]

Dallas really doesn't have much to trade if they can't include Wood in any deal. I like Hardaway, and maybe the 10th pick... but not sure that's enough to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, you're just helping a competitor to your own disadvantage. Why do that?

 

[Bufalay]

Dallas really doesn't have much to trade if they can't include Wood in any deal. I like Hardaway, and maybe the 10th pick... but not sure that's enough to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, you're just helping a competitor to your own disadvantage. Why do that?

Because Ayton isn't good and would make Dallas worse.

 

[Vacard]

Ayton better have a monster game after getting roasted by the media. The national spotlight will be on him tonight’s let’s see how he responds:

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[Phrazbit]

I cannot fathom Dallas as a trade partner. Other than Luka, they've pissed away every player of value on their roster and are left with a pile of over paid garbage.

 

[carrrnuttt]

I wasn't planning on watching tonight's (Monday, 5/1/23) game because this team has been pissing me off, but I decided to tune in for the end of the 3rd and the beginning of the 4th.

No this isn't me typing this in the wrong thread.

I saw Jock get or facilitate several offensive rebounds because he was FIGHTING for the goldarned ball and was fighting for position even when the Suns' shots ended up falling in.

This lazy SOB (the one this thread is about) sat there and WATCHED every goldfraking shot the Suns put up. His feet barely even moved sideways, much less up.

I want A) Monty to grow some balls and help this useless kid open his eyes, and/or B) I want the lazy SOB OFFFFFFFF this frakking team in our soon-to-be offseason. Actually, take off the "or" -- I just want this SOB off the team.

I yelled at him through the TV and changed to a streaming show when they were down 5 and 3 minutes left. Thank god I did. I would have ended up smashing the TV.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wasn't planning on watching tonight's (Monday, 5/1/23) game because this team has been pissing me off, but I decided to tune in for the end of the 3rd and the beginning of the 4th.

No this isn't me typing this in the wrong thread.

I saw Jock get or facilitate several offensive rebounds because he was FIGHTING for the goldarned ball and was fighting for position even when the Suns' shots ended up falling in.

This lazy SOB (the one this thread is about) sat there and WATCHED every goldfraking shot the Suns put up. His feet barely even moved sideways, much less up.

I want A) Monty to grow some balls and help this useless kid open his eyes, and/or B) I want the lazy SOB OFFFFFFFF this frakking team in our soon-to-be offseason. Actually, take off the "or" -- I just want this SOB off the team.

I yelled at him through the TV and changed to a streaming show when they were down 5 and 3 minutes left. Thank god I did. I would have ended up smashing the TV.

I want to laugh but I can't. He needs to be sent packing, not shopped, as soon as this season is over. I want him gone by the draft. I don't want to enter free agency with him as a Sun. I am so done with watching him show up and exert himself for a quarter or two and then just flat out quit trying. He seems to work for the double double and then coasts and his supporters blame everyone other than him.

 

[Sparky16]

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Please he would fit in perfect in Dallas, they need to have players to just stand around and watch Luca

 

[Sparky16]

I wasn't planning on watching tonight's (Monday, 5/1/23) game because this team has been pissing me off, but I decided to tune in for the end of the 3rd and the beginning of the 4th.

No this isn't me typing this in the wrong thread.

I saw Jock get or facilitate several offensive rebounds because he was FIGHTING for the goldarned ball and was fighting for position even when the Suns' shots ended up falling in.

This lazy SOB (the one this thread is about) sat there and WATCHED every goldfraking shot the Suns put up. His feet barely even moved sideways, much less up.

I want A) Monty to grow some balls and help this useless kid open his eyes, and/or B) I want the lazy SOB OFFFFFFFF this frakking team in our soon-to-be offseason. Actually, take off the "or" -- I just want this SOB off the team.

I yelled at him through the TV and changed to a streaming show when they were down 5 and 3 minutes left. Thank god I did. I would have ended up smashing the TV.

and this is why i did not watch either, i just followed only my phone while flipping thru youtube last night. DA was the peice that needed to be moved for Durant. Bridges is going to end up being a huge loss for years to come. This team cant hit 3s and the Twins would have done wonders. Maybe the Suns should have held out until the summer to swing a 3way in order to get KD with the POS DA and draft picks as bait

 

[BirdGangThing]

Ayton started out pretty good for about the first 5 minutes or so. Then it looked like he took a couple plays off, avoided helping, or didn't even try to rebound so Monty brought Biz in. After that Ayton seemed to pick and choose when he wanted to engage. But if you watch Joker he was engaged the whole time - even when frustrated. Long story short Ayton ended up with 8 rebounds in 33 minutes, and that's just not gonna cut it

 

[Larry Schweikart]

Originally I thought Ayton would improve. But it doesn't matter if his shot has gotten better. His defense (non-defense) is terrible---not just talking man, but his ability to (not) block any shots or intimidate anything. And I've been around a long time and haven't seen anyone this big since Artis Gilmore unable to dunk or take it strong to the basket. Inexcusable. We took a chance & traded one of the best 2-3 defenders in the NBA while keeping an absolute waste of a #1 pick.