The Ayton Plan

GatorAZ

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right. Oh you hit you bonuses by being an all NBA player GREAT!

This is flat out Sarver not wanting to pay

The Suns are scared **** of paying Ayton max money beyond CP3 era but they will eventually have to pay unless next season goes to hell somehow. And if DA’s agent thought leaking this would make a stubborn/shrewd businessman like Sarver more likely to cave in it was a miscalculation.
 

overseascardfan

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The Suns are scared **** of paying Ayton max money beyond CP3 era but they will eventually have to pay unless next season goes to hell somehow. And if DA’s agent thought leaking this would make a stubborn/shrewd businessman like Sarver more likely to cave in it was a miscalculation.
They are absolutely worried about what happens after he gets the max. Ayton said after getting drafted that getting that second contract means he made it in the NBA. Maybe his attitude has changed since then but if you thought he was passive before will he be even more so after getting paid because he has no motivation to be the best at that point.

I think he more mature than he was 3 years ago but you can never tell what players (in any sport) will do once they get paid.
 

Covert Rain

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He can do that if money if taking less is fine by him. No team except PHX can give him the most money on an extension. Hell, if Ayton really wants money he can get a super max like Doncic if he ends up on All NBA Team which is what he should be shooting for this year.
It's really not about this contract as much as pissing him off so he doesn't want to comeback after this one. If he feels the Suns are determined to shortchange what he can get on the open market? He is gone. That's the issue. Not really the fact that another team can't give him more right now. It's all about Ayton and his team feeling he gets what he is worth now and next time.

I mean if the only team that can give you more isn't willing to? What kind of message do you think that sends when they think about his next contract? This entire situation is incredibly dumb on the Suns part if this is true.
 

overseascardfan

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It's really not about this contract as much as pissing him off so he doesn't want to comeback after this one. If he feels the Suns are determined to shortchange what he can get on the open market? He is gone. That's the issue. Not really the fact that another team can't give him more right now. It's all about Ayton and his team feeling he gets what he is worth now and next time.

I mean if the only team that can give you more isn't willing to? What kind of message do you think that sends when they think about his next contract? This entire situation is incredibly dumb on the Suns part if this is true.
I think he will get a max but more likely mid to late in the season. We don't know if PHX has given him an offer yet, report is they just aren't ready to give him max deal yet. That doesn't mean they won't, it just means they are taking their time. Only 4 guys from that draft class have signed extensions so far so its not like he's the only one left without an extension.
 

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Glad Ayton’s agent bullied the FO thru the media
 

1Sun

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They are absolutely worried about what happens after he gets the max. Ayton said after getting drafted that getting that second contract means he made it in the NBA. Maybe his attitude has changed since then but if you thought he was passive before will he be even more so after getting paid because he has no motivation to be the best at that point.

I think he more mature than he was 3 years ago but you can never tell what players (in any sport) will do once they get paid.

Then if that's the case, they should trade him now, when his value is at its highest.
 

1Sun

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I think he will get a max but more likely mid to late in the season. We don't know if PHX has given him an offer yet, report is they just aren't ready to give him max deal yet. That doesn't mean they won't, it just means they are taking their time. Only 4 guys from that draft class have signed extensions so far so its not like he's the only one left without an extension.

And 2 of them aren't even half the player that Ayton is.
 

Phrazbit

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They are if you wait 90 days.
What you’re hinting at has never happened. It’s also never even been hinted at as being a possibility of happening. I also am pretty sure it would void the “ super max” portions of the contract anyway.

Also, you’re a troll and I’m going to try to only rarely waste my time on you.
 

AzStevenCal

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They are if you wait 90 days.
No, they aren't. Higher raises, higher max, longer terms aren't tradable as I recall. I may not have it exactly correct but I'm in the ballpark.
 

AzStevenCal

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Then if that's the case, they should trade him now, when his value is at its highest.
Trading Ayton now wouldn't be much better than releasing him, his salary is way too low to bring back anywhere near equal value. And once you sign him, you're looking at having to keep him probably 2 years at the minimum before you could try and get reasonable value for the player. If in that time he's damaged his reputation like Ben Simmons has, then you have another problem.

No, the answer isn't trading him, it's working out a deal and hoping like hell he continues to grow as a competitor.
 

AzStevenCal

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I flat out can’t believe people are taking up for Sarver on this
Who is taking up for Sarver on this? Some of us are hoping that this is just the negotiation process and that it will all work out but I don't know if there's anyone here that isn't concerned Sarver might screw this up. Most of us are leery, we're just not all ready to pass judgement on this until the process plays out.
 

1Sun

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Who is taking up for Sarver on this? Some of us are hoping that this is just the negotiation process and that it will all work out but I don't know if there's anyone here that isn't concerned Sarver might screw this up. Most of us are leery, we're just not all ready to pass judgement on this until the process plays out.

The problem is that there shouldn't be a process at this point. The market was set as soon as SGA and MPJ signed their deals.
 

AzStevenCal

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The problem is that there shouldn't be a process at this point. The market was set as soon as SGA and MPJ signed their deals.
It's not always that simple. MPJ didn't get a guaranteed final year, should Ayton have to agree to that? And maybe SGA has wording that will increase his contract to 30% of the cap, should we just automatically give in to that because SGA got it? And with Mikal waiting in the wings, how much of an overpay will it take to sign Bridges if we give Ayton the max in every way?

There's a Hollinger article on this subject at The Athletic but I only had access to the first paragraph. If anyone has read the whole article, I wonder what his stance is on Ayton and the max.
 

Hoop Head

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It's not always that simple. MPJ didn't get a guaranteed final year, should Ayton have to agree to that? And maybe SGA has wording that will increase his contract to 30% of the cap, should we just automatically give in to that because SGA got it? And with Mikal waiting in the wings, how much of an overpay will it take to sign Bridges if we give Ayton the max in every way?

There's a Hollinger article on this subject at The Athletic but I only had access to the first paragraph. If anyone has read the whole article, I wonder what his stance is on Ayton and the max.

I read that article. His stance is he's worth the regular max, super max 30% he's against. He also questions whether option years are in play. If its team options or all 5 years guaranteed then its good but anything giving Ayton an early out is likely bad. It was like most reasonable posters here have discussed, for the most part.
 

AzStevenCal

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I read that article. His stance is he's worth the regular max, super max 30% he's against. He also questions whether option years are in play. If its team options or all 5 years guaranteed then its good but anything giving Ayton an early out is likely bad. It was like most reasonable posters here have discussed, for the most part.
Thanks.
 

Bufalay

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The problem is that there shouldn't be a process at this point. The market was set as soon as SGA and MPJ signed their deals.
I would argue that the market was set when Ayton showed he could be the second or third best player on a Finals team. I don't care about his deficiencies anymore, he's a winning player.

I think its idiotic that they have made it this close to the deadline without signing him to an extension.
 

Mainstreet

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I read that article. His stance is he's worth the regular max, super max 30% he's against. He also questions whether option years are in play. If its team options or all 5 years guaranteed then its good but anything giving Ayton an early out is likely bad. It was like most reasonable posters here have discussed, for the most part.

We agree about the 5 year part with no player options.

The way I see it, the Suns should sign Ayton to the max with incentives if they retain the right to keep him for 5 years.

If he bottoms out they will not have to pay the incentives. If he explodes, pay the man.

Going into restricted free agency is too dangerous with poison pill contracts.
 

Mainstreet

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Suns contract discussions with Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges for extensions are NOT stalled.

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Hoop Head

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We agree about the 5 year part with no player options.

The way I see it, the Suns should sign Ayton to the max with incentives if they retain the right to keep him for 5 years.

If he bottoms out they will not have to pay the incentives. If he explodes, pay the man.

Going into restricted free agency is too dangerous with poison pill contracts.

5 years with no outs is ideal. However I can see the Suns wanting to protect their investment, especially if he gets the super max incentive, and I think asking for a 5th year team option in exchange for those would be fair. It wouldn't surprise me if something close to that is the holdup either.
 

TJ

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It takes one second for the news to change, but the closer we get to next Monday, the worse it gets
 

Hoop Head

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It takes one second for the news to change, but the closer we get to next Monday, the worse it gets

To be fair, the rest of his peers weren't suspended for using PED's and tank their team for a season. They also weren't benched multiple times by their coach for lack of desire or engagement. I know his peers haven't made an NBA Finals either, but he was the third best player on that finals team.

Young and Doncic are franchise centerpieces that have been All-Stars, Luka All-NBA. Both were getting the max after their rookie seasons. Shai is closer to Ayton than MPJ but he is the centerpiece in OKC that they've decided to build around. They're also a pretty bad team but everyone knows they've dealt everyone else of value for draft picks, literally. Ayton is as deserving as Shai, IMO.

MPJ's deal is the one that really screwed the Suns, him getting maxed is a head scratcher. He's talented but he's a liability on defense, injury prone, and one dimensional on offense. He's a talented scorer who has the tools to get better and has improved every season he's played. I wouldn't be surprised if part of their rationale was forcing our hand with Ayton and hoping Sarver decides to Sarver it up, moving us out if their way in the West.
 
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