The Ayton Plan

[Hoop Head]

The Suns' cap number would be based on the 5 years, $172 million. When they say it could be as much as $207 million, those are entirely in the form of incentive bonuses, which are triggered by things such as making an All-Star team or an All-NBA team or winning an NBA performance award, and which do not count against the cap. As such, IF the issue is not allowing the bonuses, the only thing gained there is money in Sarver's pocket. And if the issue is that Sarver won't pay Ayton the $172 million, it begs the question as to why Sarver thinks Ayton is worth less than SGA.

That's not true. If he hits the escalators then the contract changes and those changes need to be written into the deal. The cap will most definitely change if he hits the escalators because from that point forward they aren't bonuses and its guaranteed salary.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

In a certain sense, as he hasn't yet hit the escalators for all star/all nba, etc, won't his contract be cheaper now than if he has a big year?

In the same sense, isn't that the bet you make with offering Bridges 4/80?

Suns world would be a much better place if both situations were resolved, and there is undoubtedly a cloud hanging over the team and the season until at least Ayton is resolved.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And TODAY we are the Western Conference Champs, with amazing upside and not much to bitch about. (Sarver was part of that)
Yet we have resorted to reacting to stories that have no validity beyond hearsay and Trumpanzian fake news BS.
Ayton wants to be here and he will, for at least this year. He HAS to play well regardless.
If we do lose him its a tragedy yeah, but life goes on. We would get something in exchange, KAT anyone?

Usually stories like this AREN'T entirely fake, and with the collective experience this fan base has had with Sarver, do you blame anyone for believing it?

This is an owner who had the chance to sign a young, ascending talent to a well below market deal (Joe Johnson) and ended up losing him. That and a litany of other awful moves, makes this story believable. I can actually understand WHY Sarver would be a little hesitant to sign Ayton to a long term deal, but you have to take SOME calculated risks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

In a certain sense, as he hasn't yet hit the escalators for all star/all nba, etc, won't his contract be cheaper now than if he has a big year?

In the same sense, isn't that the bet you make with offering Bridges 4/80?

Suns world would be a much better place if both situations were resolved, and there is undoubtedly a cloud hanging over the team and the season until at least Ayton is resolved.

From what I've read it depends on how the contract is written, meaning the escalators can kick in if he qualifies this season.

 

[Hoop Head]

In a certain sense, as he hasn't yet hit the escalators for all star/all nba, etc, won't his contract be cheaper now than if he has a big year?

In the same sense, isn't that the bet you make with offering Bridges 4/80?

Suns world would be a much better place if both situations were resolved, and there is undoubtedly a cloud hanging over the team and the season until at least Ayton is resolved.

His contract will be cheaper if he doesn't hit this escalators but the CBA allows for language to be included so if he hits those this year then his extension is amended to the higher amount. Roughly $170 million vs $205 million over 5 years. Its an extension so it won't kick in until after this season, which is why they allow the change.

That language doesn't have to be included, sometimes its not, and that very well could be the hold up now.

 

[Dr. Jones]

None of this surprises me. Why keep the positivity train moving forward when you can put a couple landmines in your way.

Hell..... Bridges is a Max player in this market. MPJ doesn't hold a candle to that guys talent IMO.

 

[Krangodnzr]

None of this surprises me. Why keep the positivity train moving forward when you can put a couple landmines in your way.

Hell..... Bridges is a Max player in this market. MPJ doesn't hold a candle to that guys talent IMO.

MPJ is a nice player, but currently pretty overrated.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

His contract will be cheaper if he doesn't hit this escalators but the CBA allows for language to be included so if he hits those this year then his extension is amended to the higher amount. Roughly $170 million vs $205 million over 5 years. Its an extension so it won't kick in until after this season, which is why they allow the change.

That language doesn't have to be included, sometimes its not, and that very well could be the hold up now.

So the Suns (theoretically) want to pay him 5/170, and if he indeed does play at an All Star/All NBA level, they don't want to reward him with 35 million in additional escalators? (Essentially $7m per year, that ONLY comes into effect if he plays like a star?)

 

[ASUCHRIS]

None of this surprises me. Why keep the positivity train moving forward when you can put a couple landmines in your way.

Hell..... Bridges is a Max player in this market. MPJ doesn't hold a candle to that guys talent IMO.

I wouldn't trade Bridges straight up for MPJ. As big a plus as he is on offense, he's that bad on D. Bridges appears to have been built in a lab for 3 and D. If he continues to develop his offensive game and adds a little muscle, he'll be even better.

 

[Mainstreet]

Only throwing it out there but the Suns may want to pay Ayton less guaranteed money like Michael Porter Jr.

He might still reach the $207 million level but he would have to earn the non-guaranteed part and the bonuses.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So the Suns (theoretically) want to pay him 5/170, and if he indeed does play at an All Star/All NBA level, they don't want to reward him with 35 million in additional escalators? (Essentially $7m per year, that ONLY comes into effect if he plays like a star?)

It would be foolish of this organization to throw away money unnecessarily and equally stupid on the part of Ayton's camp to accept less than whatever he can get. If this was anyone other than Sarver at the helm I believe the extreme reactions would be significantly subdued. But it is Sarver so we have to wait out the process and hope this isn't the Robert of old.

 

[Hoop Head]

So the Suns (theoretically) want to pay him 5/170, and if he indeed does play at an All Star/All NBA level, they don't want to reward him with 35 million in additional escalators? (Essentially $7m per year, that ONLY comes into effect if he plays like a star?)

Theoretically that very well may be the issue. Based on what's leaked out so far, it sounds like that is the issue.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It would be foolish of this organization to throw away money unnecessarily and equally stupid on the part of Ayton's camp to accept less than whatever he can get. If this was anyone other than Sarver at the helm I believe the extreme reactions would be significantly subdued. But it is Sarver so we have to wait out the process and hope this isn't the Robert of old.

Throw away money unnecessarily? If he does indeed hit those benchmarks, Ayton should be rewarded, period.

Dicking around with Ayton in this situation is so bad on so many levels. He's young, he just took you to a finals, and he's just scratching the surface of his potential. If the difference is around 7 mil per year, that's well worth keeping the peace and positive vibes.

Sarver can't come out and talk about how much he's changed and how he's willing to do what it takes to win a championship, then turn around and not pay young stars. They better get this figured out fast, or it could turn into a major distraction.

 

[1Sun]

Ok, I didn't know about that, but I think some people use the word "bonus" casually and mean to include what happens if Ayton qualifies for the rookie contract super max, meaning his contract is elevated to 30% of the cap. Also, your conclusion that Sarver would just pocket the money is wrong. Whether it counts against the cap or future cap penalties or not, those bonuses are still paid out of the organizations coffers.

And anything that isn't an organization operating expense gets distributed to the owners, including primarily Sarver, as the majority owner.

 

[1Sun]

That's not true. If he hits the escalators then the contract changes and those changes need to be written into the deal. The cap will most definitely change if he hits the escalators because from that point forward they aren't bonuses and its guaranteed salary.

That's literally not possible, as a team would be hamstrung cap-wise and would have complete uncertainty for years waiting to see if incentive triggers were met in the future. That is why incentive bonuses are never built into cap calculations.

 

[1Sun]

In a certain sense, as he hasn't yet hit the escalators for all star/all nba, etc, won't his contract be cheaper now than if he has a big year?

In the same sense, isn't that the bet you make with offering Bridges 4/80?

Suns world would be a much better place if both situations were resolved, and there is undoubtedly a cloud hanging over the team and the season until at least Ayton is resolved.

Yes, and that is the exact same mistake Sarver made with Joe Johnson.

 

[1Sun]

It would be foolish of this organization to throw away money unnecessarily and equally stupid on the part of Ayton's camp to accept less than whatever he can get. If this was anyone other than Sarver at the helm I believe the extreme reactions would be significantly subdued. But it is Sarver so we have to wait out the process and hope this isn't the Robert of old.

When you combine it with the rest of the offseason (including not utilizing the full cap exemptions and not filling holes on the roster), it absolutely IS the Robert of old.

 

[Muggz]

Still not gonna worry about it till there is something to worry about.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's literally not possible, as a team would be hamstrung cap-wise and would have complete uncertainty for years waiting to see if incentive triggers were met in the future. That is why incentive bonuses are never built into cap calculations.

It is possible since it's an extension not a new contract. He has to meet the qualifier this season, prior to the contract actually kicking in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And anything that isn't an organization operating expense gets distributed to the owners, including primarily Sarver, as the majority owner.

That's bad logic. You said he'd pocket the money for bonuses because they aren't added to the cap. He still has to pay the bonuses.

 

[Muggz]

Hmmm! Could we start a Phoenix Suns Gofundme page?
Put up some sob story about how our owner is the worst person to ever walk the planet.
How the refs cheat to help us lose.
How Booker never gets calls.
How Sarver is gonna move the team to Seattle or Vegas.

 

[1Sun]

That's bad logic. You said he'd pocket the money for bonuses because they aren't added to the cap. He still has to pay the bonuses.

Not a matter of logic. That's how it works legally with a partnership, LLC or corporation. And I'm saying that the only thing he has to gain by not offering the incentive bonuses in the first place is money in his pocket, as that is no longer potentially an operating expense. It does zero good from a basketball perspective. Yet another short-sighted move that hurts the overall long-term value of the franchise for the sake of saving shorter term dollars.

 

[1Sun]

Woj now reporting that the Suns and Bridges are nowhere close to agreement on an extension.

Looks like Sarver is prepared to blow up the team after next season (2022-23), with the Ayton, Bridges and Jae Crowder contracts expiring, CP3 becoming only partially guaranteed, and Booker heading into the last year of his contract.

This could get really ugly. How awful would a team built around Cam Johnson, Cam Payne and Jalen Smith be?

 

[Covert Rain]

IGNORE HIM ALREADY

 

[AzStevenCal]

IGNORE HIM ALREADY

By midseason we'll be rebuilding around Cam Payne, Cam Johnson and Jalen Smith so this place will be pretty dead without him when that happens.