The Ayton Plan

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't recall it ever happening. Javale went from goofy to whatever he is now but even that's not the same thing. The saving grace here though is that Ayton isn't as unimpactful as so many of the Benoit type players we've seen, so at least his floor has value.

Interesting to see how those two compare in their fourth season. Ayton clearly the better rebounder and better shooter, Benoit clearly better at drawing fouls and a vastly superior rim protector. Of course Ayton is a better perimeter defender and has been better in his first three seasons. But it’s scary how close these two kinda are numerically in season 4.

Player Comparison: Benoit Benjamin vs. Deandre Ayton | Stathead.com

Player Comparison: Benoit Benjamin vs. Deandre Ayton

stathead.com

 

[Joe Mama]

You clearly don’t recall Boris Diaw.

I frequently referred to DA as the Boris Diaw of centers. Although if memory serves me correctly he did Play a lot of center for us. DA was a # 1 pick and is much more physically gifted (Not to say that Boris was undersized or unathletic), but otherwise they are very similar. That's especially true up there absolute fear and avoidance of physical contact with opposing players. I don't remember Boris getting pushed out of the post and out of rebound mean position as easily as DA though. Hello

I've seen posts in this lengthy thread referring to how well we played without Chris Paul. Remind me how we look playing without DA this season? And at least some of that was without McGee either.

That said, even though he frustrates the hell out of me I would match any offer for DA unless we were just blown away with a trade opportunity. This point I think that's the most likely scenario.

Joe

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Have we seen any recent scenarios where a player absolutely wanted out and his team matched and just didn’t send him out? Was Anthony Davis in that scenario?

 

[Hoop Head]

Have we seen any recent scenarios where a player absolutely wanted out and his team matched and just didn’t send him out? Was Anthony Davis in that scenario?

I recall Eric Gordon telling New Orleans not to match the offer sheet we signed him to but they did.

I also believe Zach LaVine didn't want Chicago to match the offer sheet he signed with Sacramento.

I can't recall any others except Greg Monroe saying he didn't want the Pistons to match and then taking the qualifying offer because he wanted out of Detroit so bad.

I can't recall a player really pushing the issue though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Have we seen any recent scenarios where a player absolutely wanted out and his team matched and just didn’t send him out? Was Anthony Davis in that scenario?

Elton Brand is the last one I can remember and that was almost 20 years ago.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I recall Eric Gordon telling New Orleans not to match the offer sheet we signed him to but they did.

I also believe Zach LaVine didn't want Chicago to match the offer sheet he signed with Sacramento.

I can't recall any others except Greg Monroe saying he didn't want the Pistons to match and then taking the qualifying offer because he wanted out of Detroit so bad.

I can't recall a player really pushing the issue though.

Oh yeah, Gordon and Lavine are good examples.

Unless we get absolutely bowled over by a trade offer, we absolute idiots if someone signs him to a four year deal and we don’t match. His value in trade will be so much higher if he’s got three and a half years on a deal.

 

[Folster]

Oh yeah, Gordon and Lavine are good examples.

Unless we get absolutely bowled over by a trade offer, we absolute idiots if someone signs him to a four year deal and we don’t match. His value in trade will be so much higher if he’s got three and a half years on a deal.

The only thing that will suck is that they will put player options in it after years 2 and 3. And he will also effectively have a no trade clause.

Best play will be to immediately offer a 4 year max contract with the max 8% increases at the start of free agency. The best another team can offer is 4 years with 5% increases. We avoid drama, player options and the future trade approvals.

 

[Mainstreet]

The only thing that will suck is that they will put player options in it after years 2 and 3. And he will also effectively have a no trade clause.

Best play will be to immediately offer a 4 year max contract with the max 8% increases at the start of free agency. The best another team can offer is 4 years with 5% increases. We avoid drama, player options and the future trade approvals.

The only thing better is if the Suns give Ayton the max offer for 5 years but that seems unlikely.

 

[Folster]

The only thing better is if the Suns give Ayton the max offer for 5 years but that seems unlikely.

Or maybe the 5th year 50% guaranteed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The only thing that will suck is that they will put player options in it after years 2 and 3. And he will also effectively have a no trade clause.

Best play will be to immediately offer a 4 year max contract with the max 8% increases at the start of free agency. The best another team can offer is 4 years with 5% increases. We avoid drama, player options and the future trade approvals.

Can you after two years? I'm not sure how that works, I thought to offer the max it had to be at least a 3 year deal but maybe opt outs still count?

Anyway, I think, assuming we actually want to keep him, that we'll give him whatever he wants. Which means, it will likely be a 4 year deal with a player option in year 3 and 4 so that he can be an FA again when the new TV deal comes in.

 

[Mainstreet]

Or maybe the 5th year 50% guaranteed.

I suppose Ayton could sign a 5 year contract with a player option for the 5th season. I'm not sure about the rules concerning option years. He would get his 8% raises.

If he really wanted out I think the Suns would accommodate. Too bad the two sides couldn't have reached a middle ground last off season.

This makes me concerned that Ayton's camp will push for a sign and trade.

 

[Muggz]

Ayton will be a Sun at the start of the season no doubt about it. Even if he does want out, the amount of money we would lose by just sign and trade is crazy.

I have a feeling he will be back in Phoenix long term. Unless we can pull a MAJOR move, which is not likely seeing how the Suns have **** all over this guy and put his heart at question.

Maybe that's why they did that, make him look hard to get along with and say he's soft so the offer sheets may not be as high.

 

[Yuma]

Ayton will be a Sun at the start of the season no doubt about it. Even if he does want out, the amount of money we would lose by just sign and trade is crazy.

I have a feeling he will be back in Phoenix long term. Unless we can pull a MAJOR move, which is not likely seeing how the Suns have **** all over this guy and put his heart at question.

Maybe that's why they did that, make him look hard to get along with and say he's soft so the offer sheets may not be as high.

I almost think the way the season ended, the Suns are probably regretting that CP3 extension more than having to extend Ayton. At least Ayton has upside. We know now CP3 is not getting better. I think the real cap issue is CP3. I mean, we are looking to now add players to help him manage for the playoffs, which is essentially adding salary because of him. He is causing more of a salary drain when you think about it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I almost think the way the season ended, the Suns are probably regretting that CP3 extension more than having to extend Ayton. At least Ayton has upside. We know now CP3 is not getting better. I think the real cap issue is CP3. I mean, we are looking to now add players to help him manage for the playoffs, which is essentially adding salary because of him. He is causing more of a salary drain when you think about it.

At least at the end of next season the Suns will have options with Chris Paul's contract.

Only $15,800,000 million is guaranteed for the 2023-24 season leaving a buyout or trade as options.

 

[Yuma]

At least at the end of next season the Suns will have options with Chris Paul's contract.

Only $15,800,000 million is guaranteed for the 2023-24 season leaving a buyout or trade as options.

At this point, CP3 is a top player still DURING the regular season. He wears out at the end. I love KD. He too is at the age he wears out during the playoffs. KD is a beast in the regular season too. There was talk of trading Ayton and us having KD, CP3, and Booker playing as a super team. What good is that if two of the guys wear out during the playoffs?

I almost think, we need to develop Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson to go forward. If Ayton is not developing the way Sarver and JJ want, then is it as much Ayton as it could be the coaches they are using to develop Ayton? Ayton has physical talent and skills. It's up to the coaches to develop those as much as possible.

A lot of people point to him playing video games all night as not being dedicated enough. I rather him play video games all night, than doing OTHER worse things all night. We have all heard the stories of guys partying all night with heavy drugs, alcohol, ladies, etc. Kind of happy that's NOT Ayton's gig.

 

[Mainstreet]

At this point, CP3 is a top player still DURING the regular season. He wears out at the end. I love KD. He too is at the age he wears out during the playoffs. KD is a beast in the regular season too. There was talk of trading Ayton and us having KD, CP3, and Booker playing as a super team. What good is that if two of the guys wear out during the playoffs?

I almost think, we need to develop Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson to go forward. If Ayton is not developing the way Sarver and JJ want, then is it as much Ayton as it could be the coaches they are using to develop Ayton? Ayton has physical talent and skills. It's up to the coaches to develop those as much as possible.

A lot of people point to him playing video games all night as not being dedicated enough. I rather him play video games all night, than doing OTHER worse things all night. We have all heard the stories of guys partying all night with heavy drugs, alcohol, ladies, etc. Kind of happy that's NOT Ayton's gig.

In a trade for Durant I think the Nets will minimally want Mikal Bridges or Cam Johnson, expiring contracts and 2-3 first round picks and swaps.

 

[Yuma]

In a trade for Durant I think the Nets will minimally want Mikal Bridges or Cam Johnson, expiring contracts and 2-3 first round picks and swaps.

I LOVE KD, but that's too much for one guy. Might as well blow it all up at that point.

 

[Mainstreet]

I LOVE KD, but that's too much for one guy. Might as well blow it all up at that point.

I can see it both ways. It's giving up a lot for an older player but when the window is open, gotta throw the ball deep.

 

[Yuma]

I can see it both ways. It's giving up a lot for an older player but when the window is open, gotta throw the ball deep.

If it was KD 4-5 years ago, l would be all in. It's kinda like signing JJ Watt last year.....

 

[Mainstreet]

If it was KD 4-5 years ago, l would be all in. It's kinda like signing JJ Watt last year.....

If Kevin Durant gives the Suns a couple of good seasons it could put them over the top to win a championship or two.

I'm not sure the Cardinals were thinking of that when they signed JJ Watt. They were not ready for the next step.

 

[Yuma]

If Kevin Durant gives the Suns a couple of good seasons it could put them over the top to win a championship or two.

I'm not sure the Cardinals were thinking of that when they signed JJ Watt. They were not ready for the next step.

Don't get me wrong. KD is one of my favorite players EVER. Looking at the Nets it's obvious he can't do it by himself. Arguably that is with Kyrie playing his A$$ off this year, too. I just don't know if paired with Booker and CP3, if that would be enough. If we get the CP3 that played Dallas this year in the playoffs, then definitely no.

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't get me wrong. KD is one of my favorite players EVER. Looking at the Nets it's obvious he can't do it by himself. Arguably that is with Kyrie playing his A$$ off this year, too. I just don't know if paired with Booker and CP3, if that would be enough. If we get the CP3 that played Dallas this year in the playoffs, then definitely no.

Irving, Harden and Durant was a terrible mix of players with at least a couple with their own agenda. And now the Nets have added Ben Simmons.

Durant is a team player. I think he would do quite nicely on the Suns not to mention the skills he brings to the table.

 

[Hoop Head]

At least at the end of next season the Suns will have options with Chris Paul's contract.

Only $15,800,000 million is guaranteed for the 2023-24 season leaving a buyout or trade as options.

If the Suns opted to waive Paul after next season then they can stretch that $15.8 million over 5 seasons. Since stretching a contract allows for it to be done over twice as long as the remaining years on his deal plus 1. That really
isn't too bad, around $3.2 million a year.

When I read about how they could use the stretch provision with his contract it made total sense. Of course that would also be attractive to another team looking to shred salary since they could do the same.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns opted to waive Paul after next season then they can stretch that $15.8 million over 5 seasons. Since stretching a contract allows for it to be done over twice as long as the remaining years on his deal plus 1. That really
isn't too bad, around $3.2 million a year.

When I read about how they could use the stretch provision with his contract it made total sense. Of course that would also be attractive to another team looking to shred salary since they could do the same.

Exactly. I forgot to mention the Suns option of spreading Paul's remaining contract in 2023-24 over years if they so desire. And the final season is not guaranteed at all. The Suns contract with him was very cleverly done.

 

[Finito]

If Kevin Durant gives the Suns a couple of good seasons it could put them over the top to win a championship or two.

I'm not sure the Cardinals were thinking of that when they signed JJ Watt. They were not ready for the next step.

Is Paul still your PG?