The big picture

[BC867]

Our team is run from the top down, as it should be.

But smart owners know how to delegate to the experts he hires.

Robert Sarver is a small town banker who was chastised for not doing that.

After a slight step up, he has turned the Suns into a carnival.

Bring 'em in regardless of position to then trade some for a balanced team.

But he has not achieved that. He just keeps buying time with more trades.

2-lead Point Guards. 3-lead Point Guards. Back to 2-lead Point Guards.

Robert Sarver is playing a shell game with the team and the fans.

He is as much an embarrassment to the NBA as Donald Sterling, but for different reasons. Even worse, because Sarver's blunders are ongoing.

He is a con man. As a fan, I wish someone could arrange his getting out.

The sooner the better, so the Suns can finally start rebuilding professionally.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Our team is run from the top down, as it should be.

But smart owners know how to delegate to the experts he hires.

Robert Sarver is a small town banker who was chastised for not doing that.

After a slight step up, he has turned the Suns into a carnival.

Bring 'em in regardless of position to then trade some for a balanced team.

But he has not achieved that. He just keeps buying time with more trades.

2-lead Point Guards. 3-lead Point Guards. Back to 2-lead Point Guards.

Robert Sarver is playing a shell game with the team and the fans.

He is as much an embarrassment to the NBA as Donald Sterling, but for different reasons. Even worse, because Sarver's blunders are ongoing.

He is a con man. As a fan, I wish someone could arrange his getting out.

The sooner the better, so the Suns can finally start rebuilding professionally.

What are your thoughts?

I think Sarver's is a pretty mediocre to bad owner, but you are delusional to put him in the same league as the worst owner in the history of pro sports.

and i tried to think of a less harsh word then delusional to describe your thought process comparing Sarver to Sterling, but the comparison is so without merit in every way shape or form and has no basis in reality to me that there's no other word to describe it.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't know if it's Sarver but in his recent interview, McD said that the Suns will be running the dual PG lineup for basically as long as he's in PHX because he said it worked last year so he knows it will work again.

TBD if it works again or not.

I know some people thought that we only got Bledsoe because he was an available young player with potential and not because we actually preferred running dual PG over a traditional SG but McD squashed those thoughts. He seemed clear that for the remainder of his time as GM and Hornacek's as HC, the Suns will be running a dual PG lineup.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't know if it's Sarver but in his recent interview, McD said that the Suns will be running the dual PG lineup for basically as long as he's in PHX because he said it worked last year so he knows it will work again.

TBD if it works again or not.

I know some people thought that we only got Bledsoe because he was an available young player with potential and not because we actually preferred running dual PG over a traditional SG but McD squashed those thoughts. He seemed clear that for the remainder of his time as GM and Hornacek's as HC, the Suns will be running a dual PG lineup.

This can change in a hurry. I think Hornacek has a much shorter expiration date as a coach than McDonough does as a GM. If Hornacek does not not put the Suns on pace to make the playoffs starting early next season, I think he will be on the watch list for a head coaching change.

 

[BC867]

I think Sarver's is a pretty mediocre to bad owner, but you are delusional to put him in the same league as the worst owner in the history of pro sports.

and i tried to think of a less harsh word then delusional to describe your thought process comparing Sarver to Sterling, but the comparison is so without merit in every way shape or form and has no basis in reality to me that there's no other word to describe it.

I did say, "...but for different reasons."

My point was that, as with Sterling, someone should step in and influence Sarver to sell. Trading haphazardly to trade again, over and over?

I don't know if it's Sarver but in his recent interview, McD said that the Suns will be running the dual PG lineup for basically as long as he's in PHX because he said it worked last year so he knows it will work again.

But Sarver is in the driver's seat, shaping the direction of the team. Whether he knew what McD's plan was or, even worse, didn't know.

So far, it has caused more damage than good. And may very well happen again with Brandon Knight.

We still have an unbalanced roster. Just a different one.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You can say more damage than good all you want. But that does not make it true. You hated Colangelo too, one of the best owners the league has ever seen.

I bet when you used to look at pictures of Cindy Crawford, you complained about that spot on her face. Over and over and over.

 

[machgman]

Our team is run from the top down, as it should be.

But smart owners know how to delegate to the experts he hires.

Robert Sarver is a small town banker who was chastised for not doing that.

After a slight step up, he has turned the Suns into a carnival.

Bring 'em in regardless of position to then trade some for a balanced team.

But he has not achieved that. He just keeps buying time with more trades.

2-lead Point Guards. 3-lead Point Guards. Back to 2-lead Point Guards.

Robert Sarver is playing a shell game with the team and the fans.

He is as much an embarrassment to the NBA as Donald Sterling, but for different reasons. Even worse, because Sarver's blunders are ongoing.

He is a con man. As a fan, I wish someone could arrange his getting out.

The sooner the better, so the Suns can finally start rebuilding professionally.

What are your thoughts?

While Sarver is a true dummy as an owner (who could have kept Jerry's son Bryan around to run things) who has put his personal stamp of dumbness on the Suns, the real idiots are the management team he has in charge.

The sour grapes and attacks on Dragic so the true incompetence of team management. What team management does not keep in communication with your top players to see what they are thinking, how they perceive how the team and season are going, and whether your top players are happy or not. Obviously management does not care and screwed things up with Dragic.

Ryan McDonough's body language said it all when he tried to blast Dragic as it was a true defensive and weak posture, showing he was not comfortable trying to attack with untruths. He totally lacked any eye contact, like a little kid who is lying. Lon Babby has orchestrated horrible trades and signings long before McDonough arrived, but the horrible trades and signings have continued with no significant improvements in the team's records or competiveness. McDonough claims that every move the Suns have made is to improve the team, but no real improvement has been achieved and the Suns remain an unwanted destination by the top players in the NBA.

From the perspective of when Sarver acquired the team, the Suns have and continue to be on a declining orbit to permanent residency in the bottom third of the NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I did say, "...but for different reasons."

it doesn't matter... there aren't ANY reasons that put those guys in the same league. It's a simply ludicrous statement.

Sarver is not a good owner, IMO. But he's not the worst owner in the history of sports, which Sterling was EVEN BEFORE the rampant racism crap came out.

 

[KloD]

LOL, the daily crying goes on without regard for logic and facts.

Love how you continue to refer to all fans agreeing with you. Just another example of how far from earth and reality you have gone.

Worst fan ever.

Let's see, Sarver had success and turned that success into the purchase of a professional sports team. Meanwhile, some folks spend hours a day posting the same thing over and over on a message board. Spend so much time and energy criticizing and hating the team they are supposedly a fan of. But yeah... he's the one who lacks smarts.

Delusional is not only fair, it's spot on.

 

[devilalum]

I don't know where all the Sarver hate is coming from. I'm not getting the sense that he's orchestrating any of these deals. I think he's put his faith in McD and Hornacek and is staying out of the way.

 

[JS22]

Sarver has made many, many strides as an owner. IMO he's gone from an absolutely horrible owner (Turk, Warrick, forcing Kerr to trade draft picks to dump salary, etc) to an average one. He seems to be getting out of the way, which is what you want in an owner.

The Sarver from 5 years ago would have forced the GM to keep Dragic, then watch him leave for nothing in the offseason.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sarver has made many, many strides as an owner. IMO he's gone from an absolutely horrible owner (Turk, Warrick, forcing Kerr to trade draft picks to dump salary, etc) to an average one. He seems to be getting out of the way, which is what you want in an owner.

The Sarver from 5 years ago would have forced the GM to keep Dragic, then watch him leave for nothing in the offseason.

AFAIC he was a bad owner and now he's not. The only thing keeping him from being a very good owner (signs checks, shuts mouth) is his court-side behavior. Otherwise I have no complaints or concerns about him.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

While Sarver is a true dummy as an owner (who could have kept Jerry's son Bryan around to run things) who has put his personal stamp of dumbness on the Suns, the real idiots are the management team he has in charge.

Wait, why would you want Bryan Colangelo to run anything? Did you see the mess he created in Toronto?

 

[KloD]

Wait, why would you want Bryan Colangelo to run anything? Did you see the mess he created in Toronto?

Let alone, he was the one who traded the #7 pick to Chicago for nothing. He traded Googs and 2 firsts (and a 2nd) to Utah for nothing. Drafted horrible his last few seasons for the Suns. A lot of folks link those events to Sarver, but the Googs trade and #7 pick trade happened the season prior to Sarver taking over.

The Colangelo's made plenty of mistakes and poor decisions themselves over the years. No owner or GM is perfect. Sarver has his faults for sure and has made plenty of mistakes, but I believe he wants the team to succeed and is doing his best to try and make that happen, including letting his staff make the decisions.

 

[Mainstreet]

As I remember the trade of Gugliotta was primarily made to clear excess salary from the books for the sale of the Suns to Robert Sarver.

 

[KloD]

As I remember the trade of Gugliotta was primarily made to clear excess salary from the books for the sale of the Suns to Robert Sarver.

Not sure about that? Googs was traded in Feb. and the sale went down in July. I remember the Colangelos we're still making the decisions the first year or so after the purchase. These moves came months before any sale was made public.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not sure about that? Googs was traded in Feb. and the sale went down in July. I remember the Colangelos we're still making the decisions the first year or so after the purchase. These moves came months before any sale was made public.

The Suns were sold in April of 2004. I was particularly upset the Suns traded away two first round picks to move Gugliotta and I understand this was the reason given, at least later on. Anyway this is my recollection from that time period.

 

[Covert Rain]

AFAIC he was a bad owner and now he's not. The only thing keeping him from being a very good owner (signs checks, shuts mouth) is his court-side behavior. Otherwise I have no complaints or concerns about him.

Steve

Interesting statement. I definitely think he has made some legit attempts to improve and change direction. However, if you look at his track record over the last 10 years (with trading half your roster this year) I don't think you can go from being a bad owner to a good owner just because you made some changes.

I still think he is a bad owner as of right now who is trying to do the right thing. There are other owners and GM's who try and do the right thing. They just suck at their jobs. Only time will tell.

 

[Phrazbit]

Interesting statement. I definitely think he has made some legit attempts to improve and change direction. However, if you look at his track record over the last 10 years (with trading half your roster this year) I don't think you can go from being a bad owner to a good owner.

I still think he is a bad owner as of right now who is trying to do the right thing. There are a ton of bad owners who try and do the right thing. They just suck at their jobs.

I can't believe I have to defend Sarver, because he is hardly my favorite, but for several years the guy is doing what an owner should. The basketball people are running the team, he is letting them spend money and make the moves. You might not like what THOSE guys are doing, but its not Sarver who "traded half the team". And even those guys are enormous upgrades over what we had 2 years ago.

I get people are mad that our "star" player got traded, but the franchise is in far better shape than it has been at any point since 2010.

 

[Covert Rain]

I can't believe I have to defend Sarver, because he is hardly my favorite, but for several years the guy is doing what an owner should. The basketball people are running the team, he is letting them spend money and make the moves. You might not like what THOSE guys are doing, but its not Sarver who "traded half the team". And even those guys are enormous upgrades over what we had 2 years ago.

I get people are mad that our "star" player got traded, but the franchise is in far better shape than it has been at any point since 2010.

That's sounds all great but it's not how it works. Sarver is the one that dug the hole. Just because you hire some guys to fill the hole doesn't erase that fact. Plus, Sarver is the one that is responsible for bringing these guys in.

Intentions don't make someone a good owner. I give Sarver credit for trying something new.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's sounds all great but it's not how it works. Sarver is the one that dug the hole. Just because you hire some guys to fill the hole doesn't erase that fact. Plus, Sarver is the one that is responsible for bringing these guys in.

Intentions don't make someone a good owner. I give Sarver credit for trying something new.

Well, unlike some here, I think the new GM has done far more good than bad.

I think he used to be a bad owner because he was short sighted, where now the team is looking into the future with every move they make. I would have been thrilled to see him ran out on a rail about 2 or 3 years ago. But, given that we have no power to do this, it does make me happy to see the huge strides made over the last few years.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, unlike some here, I think the new GM has done far more good than bad.

I think he used to be a bad owner because he was short sighted, where now the team is looking into the future with every move they make. I would have been thrilled to see him ran out on a rail about 2 or 3 years ago. But, given that we have no power to do this, it does make me happy to see the huge strides made over the last few years.

Agree with this.

A good owner lets the people he hired do their jobs. He's doing that now. His past is certainly littered with horrible moves, but blaming him because you don't like a trade is completely misplaced.

People don't get that if he continued on his downward trajectory after the Warrick and Turkoglu fiascos, we would be in a LOT worse shape than we are now. That's a simple fact.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well, unlike some here, I think the new GM has done far more good than bad.

I think he used to be a bad owner because he was short sighted, where now the team is looking into the future with every move they make. I would have been thrilled to see him ran out on a rail about 2 or 3 years ago. But, given that we have no power to do this, it does make me happy to see the huge strides made over the last few years.

Good points but the other part we have no control over is seeing the inner workings of the FO. We have all heard stories where it's revealed years later that an owner is more meddling that anybody thought. We don't know what we don't know.

That's why I would prefer to use the team's track record, reputation amongst owners, reputation amongst players and ultimately success as my guide for evaluating how good of an owner he is.

 

[Wally]

It's been a very long time since I posted here and I see things are still the same in that fans are still fans. Some have a half full glass and others have a half empty glass or maybe "My beer is almost gone or my beer is almost full" might be a better way to word it. Some still have common sense which is refreshing to read in their posts.
The "BIG PICTURE" is really much more dependent upon the Players who want the most they can get for their skills and the fans that support them. As MCD said "we want more WE than ME. When their team is winning MOST everyone is happy and there are more WE type individuals as players & fans both. A very important goal of management is to have satisfied (happy) players and fans. The Spurs have done an excellent job in doing this and a lot has to do with the "WE" guys vs the "ME" guys.
Robert Sarver is learning as an owner and I believe he is doing his best to make the team he owns into a team the fans want to watch (happy fans mean more money). He has made mistakes in some choices and getting in the way but it looks like he is letting his management team (who are also learning) do their job.
It wasn't that long ago that Goran indicated he would not drag out contract negotiations indicating he was happy with his role. Goran WAS my favorite player but he put the team in a very bad situation and management made the best of it. Who knows, perhaps it will be enough the fill the beer glass to the top. Hindsight is always 20/20.
OT / BTW - Where is Irish???

 

[Mainstreet]

It's been a very long time since I posted here and I see things are still the same in that fans are still fans. Some have a half full glass and others have a half empty glass or maybe "My beer is almost gone or my beer is almost full" might be a better way to word it. Some still have common sense which is refreshing to read in their posts.
The "BIG PICTURE" is really much more dependent upon the Players who want the most they can get for their skills and the fans that support them. As MCD said "we want more WE than ME. When their team is winning MOST everyone is happy and there are more WE type individuals as players & fans both. A very important goal of management is to have satisfied (happy) players and fans. The Spurs have done an excellent job in doing this and a lot has to do with the "WE" guys vs the "ME" guys.
Robert Sarver is learning as an owner and I believe he is doing his best to make the team he owns into a team the fans want to watch (happy fans mean more money). He has made mistakes in some choices and getting in the way but it looks like he is letting his management team (who are also learning) do their job.
It wasn't that long ago that Goran indicated he would not drag out contract negotiations indicating he was happy with his role. Goran WAS my favorite player but he put the team in a very bad situation and management made the best of it. Who knows, perhaps it will be enough the fill the beer glass to the top. Hindsight is always 20/20.
OT / BTW - Where is Irish???

It's good to see you posting again on the Suns forum.

I haven't seen Irish post for what it seems like years. He used to be a regular poster on the Suns forum as you recall. Maybe someone else knows his status and will comment.