The Bledsoe dilemma

[Gaddabout]

I think you trade him sign and trade get more future picks. You have a legit all star caliber PG in Dragic, you don't need another PG yeah I know he's a tweener, but a very small one. Backcourts don't win championships.

If you trade one of them, you trade Dragic and keep Bledsoe.

 

[SirStefan32]

If you trade one of them, you trade Dragic and keep Bledsoe.

This is a joke, right?

 

[Catlover]

This is a joke, right?

I don't see why it would be. If you trade one just for basketball reasons it makes sense to move Dragic. Bledsoe is much better on defense and on offense it's almost impossible to keep him in front of you without help. Dragic might be better today but Eric is much better than Goran was at the same age. Dragic is happy to be in Phoenix and he's on an excellent contract and he's not damaged goods so there are more than basketball reasons to discuss here. But if Bledsoe is prepared to sign a decent contract and also wants to be in Phoenix it makes some sense to trade the guy who has likely peaked.

 

[elindholm]

I don't see why it would be. If you trade one just for basketball reasons it makes sense to move Dragic. Bledsoe is much better on defense and on offense it's almost impossible to keep him in front of you without help. Dragic might be better today but Eric is much better than Goran was at the same age. Dragic is happy to be in Phoenix and he's on an excellent contract and he's not damaged goods so there are more than basketball reasons to discuss here. But if Bledsoe is prepared to sign a decent contract and also wants to be in Phoenix it makes some sense to trade the guy who has likely peaked.

Eric Bledsoe is starting to look a lot like Eric Gordon to me: a player who will parlay a couple of good-looking months and the aura of "potential" into a franchise-crippling contract. Bledsoe's small sample size indicates that (a) he is a potential impact player and (b) he has major injury issues. What sense does it make to gamble that the good signs are legitimate and the bad signs are flukes?

 

[Catlover]

Eric Bledsoe is starting to look a lot like Eric Gordon to me: a player who will parlay a couple of good-looking months and the aura of "potential" into a franchise-crippling contract. Bledsoe's small sample size indicates that (a) he is a potential impact player and (b) he has major injury issues. What sense does it make to gamble that the good signs are legitimate and the bad signs are flukes?

I don't know that it does make sense to ignore the injury risks, that call would have to be made by the medical staff. I know this though, the game is still about superstars and Bledsoe has that kind of potential. I think it's worth assuming some extra risk when you're in pursuit of a game-changer. It might make even more sense to get him back healthy and showcase his skills even further in preparation for a sign and trade but you rarely get full value in those situations.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't know that it does make sense to ignore the injury risks, that call would have to be made by the medical staff. I know this though, the game is still about superstars and Bledsoe has that kind of potential. I think it's worth assuming some extra risk when you're in pursuit of a game-changer. It might make even more sense to get him back healthy and showcase his skills even further in preparation for a sign and trade but you rarely get full value in those situations.

Goran's numbers in the last 8 games or so look like Superstar numbers to me a lot more than Bledsoe's. In my opinion, Eric's comparison (Eric Gordon) is spot on.

On the non-basketball side of things... Bledsoe has never stated he wants to be here, while Dragic came back after the Suns traded him. He calls Phoenix his home, and doesn't want to go anywhere else.

To me, this is a simple decision. If I were the GM, I'd be looking at what SG and/or PF help Bledsoe and draft picks can get me.

 

[Catlover]

Goran's numbers in the last 8 games or so look like Superstar numbers to me a lot more than Bledsoe's. In my opinion, Eric's comparison (Eric Gordon) is spot on.

On the non-basketball side of things... Bledsoe has never stated he wants to be here, while Dragic came back after the Suns traded him. He calls Phoenix his home, and doesn't want to go anywhere else.

To me, this is a simple decision. If I were the GM, I'd be looking at what SG and/or PF help Bledsoe and draft picks can get me.

I think there is merit to both sides of the argument and that was the reason I entered the conversation in the first place. Your post made it clear that you thought there was no possible reason to consider keeping Bledsoe over Dragic.

Dragic has put up incredible numbers recently but his defense is still average at best and I'm tired of watching the waterbugs run free all day. We've had decades of offensive guards, just once I'd like to see us play a few years with a true defensive presence inside and outside. Bledsoe has that kind of presence and his play makes all of our big men look better. His absence has revealed just how weak our defense is when forced to step up for the entire shot clock. I honestly don't know which player I would keep if forced to choose but I've always placed myself in the KEEP BOTH OF THEM corner. That is, I'd keep them both assuming Bledsoe wants to stay and our medical team isn't scared of a long term commitment to him.

 

[devilalum]

Goran's numbers in the last 8 games or so look like Superstar numbers to me a lot more than Bledsoe's. In my opinion, Eric's comparison (Eric Gordon) is spot on.

On the non-basketball side of things... Bledsoe has never stated he wants to be here, while Dragic came back after the Suns traded him. He calls Phoenix his home, and doesn't want to go anywhere else.

To me, this is a simple decision. If I were the GM, I'd be looking at what SG and/or PF help Bledsoe and draft picks can get me.

"Yes," Babby said. "If you ask me today, I would say absolutely we are going to match any offer, but I hope it doesn't come to that. I hope Eric has developed enough of a feeling, and my instincts are that he likes it here."

Is it prudent to keep a player against his will?

 

[SirStefan32]

Is it prudent to keep a player against his will?

All things being equal- MAYBE. It's not like Bledsoe said he doesn't want to be here either, but I would rather commit to someone who is committed to my organization than a mercenary who just wants the max money. If Bledsoe was putting Dragic-type numbers, and was healthy, perhaps you match anything anyway, but with so many questions, I'd pass.

Keep in mind though, that Babby is a very smart guy- a businessman and an attorney. He knows what to say and what not to say. Don't confuse what Babby says with what he (along with Sarver and McD) really think.

 

[Catlover]

Is it prudent to keep a player against his will?

Probably not but I seem to recall Olajuwon demanding a trade a couple of times before they won their first championship and not so long ago Kobe did the same. Also, it's only conjecture when someone suggests or implies that Eric doesn't want to play in Phoenix. They may be right but we have so little information on this that it's really anyone's guess. Nothing in Bledsoe's demeanor suggests he is anything other than content with his situation in Phoenix although the fact he didn't sign last October has always been a bit concerning. It's possible that he likes his team but has always had another destination in mind but I guess that's a risk with just about anybody.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think there is merit to both sides of the argument and that was the reason I entered the conversation in the first place. Your post made it clear that you thought there was no possible reason to consider keeping Bledsoe over Dragic.

Dragic has put up incredible numbers recently but his defense is still average at best and I'm tired of watching the waterbugs run free all day. We've had decades of offensive guards, just once I'd like to see us play a few years with a true defensive presence inside and outside. Bledsoe has that kind of presence and his play makes all of our big men look better. His absence has revealed just how weak our defense is when forced to step up for the entire shot clock. I honestly don't know which player I would keep if forced to choose but I've always placed myself in the KEEP BOTH OF THEM corner. That is, I'd keep them both assuming Bledsoe wants to stay and our medical team isn't scared of a long term commitment to him.

There is no objective merit to both sides of the argument.
You have two players. One of them is a better overall player than the other one, though the other one has shows flashes of stardom. That second player replies only on his athleticism and is having a 2nd major surgery on the same knee in the last couple of years. Player who is the better player right now is also much more durable and actually wants to be here- 100% committed to the team, while the other player hasn't shown any signs of wanting (or not wanting, for that matter) to be here.

That decision is simple, and there is no two sides to that particular argument.

 

[SirStefan32]

Probably not but I seem to recall Olajuwon demanding a trade a couple of times before they won their first championship and not so long ago Kobe did the same. Also, it's only conjecture when someone suggests or implies that Eric doesn't want to play in Phoenix. They may be right but we have so little information on this that it's really anyone's guess. Nothing in Bledsoe's demeanor suggests he is anything other than content with his situation in Phoenix although the fact he didn't sign last October has always been a bit concerning. It's possible that he likes his team but has always had another destination in mind but I guess that's a risk with just about anybody.

Bledsoe is no Olajuwon or Bryant, so those two are irrelevant in this discussion.
Bledsoe is, at best, an Eric Gordon/ Penny Hardaway type.

 

[Catlover]

Bledsoe is no Olajuwon or Bryant, so those two are irrelevant in this discussion.
Bledsoe is, at best, an Eric Gordon/ Penny Hardaway type.

What? How in the world does this make my response irrelevant? Nobody said give me an example of a player that is short and not wholly proven but I'm quite sure I could have found one or two that fits that mold also. BTW, Olajuwon, when he made his trade demands, was nowhere near the legend he became. Penny Hardaway before his injury was a far better player and a far bigger name than Hakeem was when he made his demand and was also a much better player than Bledsoe is. Anyway, I see no need for carbon copy examples in a discussion such as this one. Lastly, if Bledsoe ever hits his potential he'll be worlds beyond Eric Gordon.

 

[devilalum]

Probably not but I seem to recall Olajuwon demanding a trade a couple of times before they won their first championship and not so long ago Kobe did the same. Also, it's only conjecture when someone suggests or implies that Eric doesn't want to play in Phoenix. They may be right but we have so little information on this that it's really anyone's guess. Nothing in Bledsoe's demeanor suggests he is anything other than content with his situation in Phoenix although the fact he didn't sign last October has always been a bit concerning. It's possible that he likes his team but has always had another destination in mind but I guess that's a risk with just about anybody.

Based on everything I've read and heard I think he doesn't want to be here but he is trying to be as professional about the situation as he can possibly be. He hasn't said one word either way and when he's on the court he's playing hard and trying to help the team and himself. Given his impending free agency this approach obviously benefits him the most.

I bet McDonough knows. "IF" he doesn't want to be here the next question would be why? Is it because he wants to be "the man" on his own team? He doesn't like Phoenix? He wants a max contract? What?

 

[Catlover]

There is no objective merit to both sides of the argument.
You have two players. One of them is a better overall player than the other one, though the other one has shows flashes of stardom. That second player replies only on his athleticism and is having a 2nd major surgery on the same knee in the last couple of years. Player who is the better player right now is also much more durable and actually wants to be here- 100% committed to the team, while the other player hasn't shown any signs of wanting (or not wanting, for that matter) to be here.

That decision is simple, and there is no two sides to that particular argument.

Says you. I've already offered objective merit to both sides of this argument, says me. Bledsoe, by almost ALL ACCOUNTS, has a higher ceiling. Until you can acknowledge that point any discussion with you on this topic is useless. I don't mean this as an attack but in my opinion you are blinded by something other than a meritorious argument.

I am not advocating keeping Bledsoe over Dragic. I'm in favor of keeping both, something you've been against long before they took the court together. If push came to shove I'd probably move Bledsoe over Dragic but I can see reason to go the other way. And the side of me that is sick and tired of watching weak defensive play is leading the charge for going the other way. His injury risk and his likely cost along with Goran's professed love of the area makes Dragic the safer pick in my opinion. But it's not unreasonable to say that the safer option might not be the best option when you consider Eric's ceiling.

 

[Catlover]

Based on everything I've read and heard I think he doesn't want to be here but he is trying to be as professional about the situation as he can possibly be. He hasn't said one word either way and when he's on the court he's playing hard and trying to help the team and himself. Given his impending free agency this approach obviously benefits him the most.

I bet McDonough knows. "IF" he doesn't want to be here the next question would be why? Is it because he wants to be "the man" on his own team? He doesn't like Phoenix? He wants a max contract? What?

Based on everything I've read and heard from people that are just taking wild guesses it appears he doesn't want to be here but I've seen nothing from him to indicate one way or the other. Granted, that silence is deafening in itself but personalities differ and Eric doesn't seem to be a media ***** (I hate that term but I couldn't think of a better one). Like many, I suspect he wants to go elsewhere and if so it's likely because he and Lebron have agreed to play together somewhere. Regardless, I think you're right about McD. He already knows, one way or the other.

Despite typing away on the subject I'm really not that invested in this issue because in the end I have confidence that McDonough will make the best decisions for the organization. Not that he won't get some wrong along the way but he seems to know what he's doing. I'm inclined to trust that more than I would the rest of us that sit in front of our keyboards and type out our wild guesses.

 

[Gaddabout]

My logic:

1) Bledsoe doesn't care as much about where he plays, he just wants a commitment to start from an organization. He also wants the ball in his hands. He has that on both accounts.

2) Bledsoe likes Hornacek that he actually takes coaching. Bledsoe doesn't like shooting when his percentage is off, but Horny keeps telling him to shoot and his confidence sky-rocketed before the injury.

3) Bledsoe is 24 and is already more complete. Dragic is 27, less complete on the defensive end, and is sorely lacking range. When healthy, Bledsoe is > than Dragic, and Bledsoe still has some game to grow.

4) In the games the Suns have lost, you can see Dragic's biggest weaknesses. Push him off the pick-and-roll, make him a shooter, and the entire team is weakened. He's neither strong enough nor a big enough threat outside to force better defensive teams off pressure. This will become all too apparent in the playoffs. Dragic knows it better than anyone, and regularly passes up open jump shots off that set.

It should be known the Suns have no intention of trading either. They love the pair together and they still believe Dragic will develop range to become a more competent two guard. My broader point was Bledsoe remains the starting PG on this team and Dragic is the second guard. When Bledsoe returns, Dragic won't be handling the ball all the time.

 

[elindholm]

3) Bledsoe is 24 and is already more complete. Dragic is 27, less complete on the defensive end, and is sorely lacking range. When healthy, Bledsoe is > than Dragic, and Bledsoe still has some game to grow.

I can't agree with you on that one. Dragic shoots slightly better overall than Bledsoe (51% to 49% this season), is better from three (41% to 35%), and is the same from the line (78% to 79%). I agree that he has some difficulty getting space for his shot, but he's getting better at his stutter-step, step-back jumper. Dragic is weaker than Bledsoe defensively, but to call him "less complete" seems inaccurate.

4) In the games the Suns have lost, you can see Dragic's biggest weaknesses. Push him off the pick-and-roll, make him a shooter, and the entire team is weakened. He's neither strong enough nor a big enough threat outside to force better defensive teams off pressure. This will become all too apparent in the playoffs. Dragic knows it better than anyone, and regularly passes up open jump shots off that set.

Well, he is a point guard, after all. If he improved his ball-handling -- a complaint I raise constantly -- he'd be better able to punish defenses for overplaying him, even (or particularly) if someone else were to end up getting the shot.

They love the pair together and they still believe Dragic will develop range to become a more competent two guard. My broader point was Bledsoe remains the starting PG on this team and Dragic is the second guard.

That's a shame. Dragic can be an above-average PG, even borderline All-Star level, but he'll never be more than a mediocre, undersized SG if that's the position he's forced into.

 

[Chaplin]

I can't agree with you on that one. Dragic shoots slightly better overall than Bledsoe (51% to 49% this season), is better from three (41% to 35%), and is the same from the line (78% to 79%). I agree that he has some difficulty getting space for his shot, but he's getting better at his stutter-step, step-back jumper. Dragic is weaker than Bledsoe defensively, but to call him "less complete" seems inaccurate.

I totally agree here. Gad claims that when healthy Bledsoe is better than Dragic, but there's nothing that proves that. He POTENTIALLY COULD be better than Dragic, but there's no way to be 100% certain of that right now.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think that, when healthy, they are similarly effective and efficient offensive players with Dragic probably slightly better (but Bledsoe still has room to grow). However Bledsoe is much much better defensively.

I dont see a problem with keeping both, they had a good thing going early in the year, but if we could only keep one I'd keep Bledsoe.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Definitely not a clear cut answer on this one. Sans injury history, you take Bledsoe, but that is a major concern. I'm fine with keeping both, but would hate to choose between them.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that, when healthy, they are similarly effective and efficient offensive players with Dragic probably slightly better. However Bledsoe is much much better defensively.

I dont see a problem with keeping both, they had a good thing going early in the year, but if we could only keep one I'd keep Bledsoe.

Of course I'd prefer to keep both Dragic and Bledsoe because I agree, the Suns had a good thing going when they played together. However, I hesitate giving the edge to Bledsoe because Dragic has proven he can stay healthy, he openly likes being a Sun and his stats keep on rising. I know Bledsoe is younger. Maybe Bledsoe becomes better than Dragic, maybe not. However, I think Bledsoe has more value in a trade based upon his purported upside. If trading Bledsoe helped the Suns land a star quality PF, I would trade Bledsoe and be perfectly happy keeping Dragic.

The one thing that has become clear to me is that Dragic is more of a combo guard and if paired with another combo guard or PG the Suns back court becomes very explosive. It also takes some of the pressure off Dragic.

 

[Superbone]

Like many, I suspect he wants to go elsewhere and if so it's likely because he and Lebron have agreed to play together somewhere.

If they want to play together, it'll have to be in Phoenix.

 

[Superbone]

If I have to pick one right now, it's Dragic, no question. He's remained healthy whereas Bled's health is suspect and Dragic openly wants to be here.

 

[devilalum]

IMO the best scenario is keep both for another season even if you have to match an ugly bid for Bledsoe. After that if it's not working out trade one.

The Bledsoe/Dragic experiment has definitely had its moments. I'd love to see what they can do with a legit inside power presence.