The Cardinals' QBOF Conundrum

[Krangodnzr]

Completely disagree. You can try and modify technique but you aren't going to change a way a QB throws the ball. Phillip Rivers, Kerry Collins, and Vince Young are all guys that had unorthodox technique and none of them changed.

Mahomes throwing motion is fine

its his fundamentals that can improve -- footwork, etc. I know that its hard to completely seperate the two -- but Mahomes has shown that even with poor fundamentals he can deliver the ball to the right place.

Of course, if Mahomes fundamentals were good / consistent -- he likely goes well before 13

so --- you have a guy who has all the physical attributes you want but has sketchy fundamentals. Upside is Matt Stafford like player. Downside is Josh McCown. Is he worth a 1st round pick in the 20s? Especially when you know that he is a year of sitting + a year of playing and making mistakes before he would be ready (at the earliest).

Karma responded perfectly.

Mahomes' footwork is crazy, but you will see him routinely throw the ball accurately off his backfoot.

 

[Jetstream Green]

All I know is this, the Cardinals better use a pick on a QB in the first two rounds or Keim needs his head examined. I do not give a crap if one considers it a 'need' selection or that the current crop of QBs are not that good in 'this' draft. Of late, by draft time all the QBs seemed flawed every freaking year due to how college football is played. We need a QB in the wings now and actually have a situation with Palmer where he can take over next season and learn. Watson if he makes it to us or Kizer later, draft one Cards!

 

[NJCardFan]

Pretty much every QB coming out of college is now a huge project as they are forced to transition from the crazy spread/air raid stuff into more conventional NFL offenses. The idea of the plug in QB has basically vanished so this line of thinking must change.

That's my point. You either go with an established backup who's groomed to be a starter or you go from the ground up with a project college player. But my point of my answer to Krang was that he isn't willing to take JG because he's unproven but is willing to take Mahomes who's even more unproven. JG at least has played in NFL games and had shown to be able to play on the NFL level. I'm not saying a Mahomes isn't worth looking at as long as we have a legit starter for a year or 2, I'm saying that you have choose which way you want to proceed.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't see the point of drafting a QB in round 1 to just draft a QB. I would rather draft a QB that the coach and GM had some conviction on and are willing to commit to as the guy moving forward. If we are just interested in getting a guy rather than a specific guy, just draft which ever guy falls to our pick in the second round. Kizer, Mahomes, and Watson all have issues, and I am not sure any of these guys is a better option than the others.

 

[Dude]

I don't see the point of drafting a QB in round 1 to just draft a QB. I would rather draft a QB that the coach and GM had some conviction on and are willing to commit to as the guy moving forward. If we are just interested in getting a guy rather than a specific guy, just draft which ever guy falls to our pick in the second round. Kizer, Mahomes, and Watson all have issues, and I am not sure any of these guys is a better option than the others.

If the mocks are right they have Watson going around 10. IMO move and get him it's 3 spots.

 

[MartinD]

Great analysis, Mitch, and a fun read.

For all of the names being thrown around -- and I love playing the QBOF game -- I think the Cards pick someone in the mid-to-late rounds, have him compete with Dysert, and decide to keep Dysert. Two months ago, the Republic quoted Palmer praising Dysert ("“He’s picked up the offense extremely quick,” quarterback Carson Palmer said. “He’s very bright. He throws it really well. When he moves around, it looks really fluid in the pocket. I was shocked that he’s bounced around a little bit, but I think he’s found a good spot here”) and Arians ("“I think he’s got a really good chance to be a good player") and said the coaches thought Dysert had picked things up very quickly.

He's old news so he carries no dazzle, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dysert sticks. As far as Stanton goes, I fear he stays on the roster, too. Arians wants him here. If you think he can't be so blind with manlove, remember how long he carried Butler on the squad. B.A. makes up his mind, he doesn't let the evidence sway him.

If there was another Andrew Luck sitting at #13, I'd say we might make a move. Since there isn't, don't count on a new QBOF.

 

[Mitch]

Great analysis, Mitch, and a fun read.

For all of the names being thrown around -- and I love playing the QBOF game -- I think the Cards pick someone in the mid-to-late rounds, have him compete with Dysert, and decide to keep Dysert. Two months ago, the Republic quoted Palmer praising Dysert ("“He’s picked up the offense extremely quick,” quarterback Carson Palmer said. “He’s very bright. He throws it really well. When he moves around, it looks really fluid in the pocket. I was shocked that he’s bounced around a little bit, but I think he’s found a good spot here”) and Arians ("“I think he’s got a really good chance to be a good player") and said the coaches thought Dysert had picked things up very quickly.

He's old news so he carries no dazzle, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dysert sticks. As far as Stanton goes, I fear he stays on the roster, too. Arians wants him here. If you think he can't be so blind with manlove, remember how long he carried Butler on the squad. B.A. makes up his mind, he doesn't let the evidence sway him.

If there was another Andrew Luck sitting at #13, I'd say we might make a move. Since there isn't, don't count on a new QBOF.

Great points about Zac Dysert, Martin. Because of him, there is no urgency to draft a potential down the road #2 QB on Day 3. I say let's see what Dysert looks like in camp. Like you said, it would be fruitless to draft a QB on Day 3 and then have Dysert beat him out. There's a good chance ZD could be the #2 QB in 2018. And like you said, there is no indication that Stanton is going anywhere.

 

[juza76]

i dont know how people can make positive statements about a guy that never played a snap for us and has been released by several teams
zac dysert career

Career history

• Denver Broncos (2013–2014)
• Chicago Bears (2015)*
• Houston Texans (2015)*
• Buffalo Bills (2015)*
• Miami Dolphins (2016)*
• Arizona Cardinals (2016–present)

* Offseason and/or practice squad member only

 

[Stout]

Let's not make ANY QB decisions based upon the futures of Dysert or Stanton, thanks much.

 

[juza76]

Dysert has been released by 4 teams with crappy qb situation
But I have to hear people talking about him as potential qb of the future

 

[Jetstream Green]

Dysert has been released by 4 teams with crappy qb situation
But I have to hear people talking about him as potential qb of the future

And at the same time teams with a crappy qb situation usually can't identify one, none the less develop one lol

 

[BleedRed]

Chad Kelly in the 3rd!

 

[cardncubfan]

i dont know how people can make positive statements about a guy that never played a snap for us and has been released by several teams
zac dysert career

Career history

• Denver Broncos (2013–2014)
• Chicago Bears (2015)*
• Houston Texans (2015)*
• Buffalo Bills (2015)*
• Miami Dolphins (2016)*
• Arizona Cardinals (2016–present)

* Offseason and/or practice squad member only

It was Carson Palmer that was praising him & he mentioned the several teams & he said he didn't understand why he bounced like that since he is smart & throws a good ball.

“He’s picked up the offense extremely quick,” quarterback Carson Palmer said. “He’s very bright. He throws it really well.''


''I was shocked that he’s bounced around a little bit''

 

[juza76]

It was Carson Palmer that was praising him & he mentioned the several teams & he said he didn't understand why he bounced like that since he is smart & throws a good ball.

“He’s picked up the offense extremely quick,” quarterback Carson Palmer said. “He’s very bright. He throws it really well.''


''I was shocked that he’s bounced around a little bit''

I dont know but he can pick up the offense amazingly but game day is different so it doesn't translate on the field
If I have to write all things said from larry fitzgerald about some young qbs or wrs we had then u see there is a big line which separate great players from being great evaluators

 

[Buckybird]

Dysert is terrible

 

[Lagerfilled]

Dysert is terrible

Says the guy who has never seen him start an NFL game. Let's wait & see. I'd suggest we see what he's got before suggesting a draft pick will be better in a poor QB draft.

 

[DVontel]

Says the guy who has never seen him start an NFL game. Let's wait & see. I'd suggest we see what he's got before suggesting a draft pick will be better in a poor QB draft.

Man, this is a really bad post.

 

[TheCardFan]

All I know is this, the Cardinals better use a pick on a QB in the first two rounds or Keim needs his head examined.

I would say Keim better not make a mistake at QB in this draft by either passing on a franchise QB or drafting a bust. Unfortunately, I think this draft (and most drafts) has a very high bust potential at QB. You better be 100% if your going to use a #1 pick and pretty damn sure with a #2.

 

[juza76]

I would say Keim better not make a mistake at QB in this draft by either passing on a franchise QB or drafting a bust. Unfortunately, I think this draft (and most drafts) has a very high bust potential at QB. You better be 100% if your going to use a #1 pick and pretty damn sure with a #2.

Every year I hear this
This draft class is mediocre, another year they say is the best ever
But all those qbs are just projects
so all the statements can change
Lets wait, I think there are 3/4 qbs with great upside

 

[WildBB]

I would say Keim better not make a mistake at QB in this draft by either passing on a franchise QB or drafting a bust. Unfortunately, I think this draft (and most drafts) has a very high bust potential at QB. You better be 100% if your going to use a #1 pick and pretty damn sure with a #2.

That's usually a consensus opinion in drafts. Those pds QB prospects almost universally are drafted in the 1st Rd. What drops them are questions about physical or character traits,, ie...arm strength, height of prospect, personal decisions ect. So you wind up drafting more question marks as the draft progresses. If teams that are QB needy, pass ahead of you on one, it could be a pretty dicey proposition drafting one in the 2nd Rd. because it's possible to find starters (at another position) there. You start to take flyers on QB prospects in the 3-4 Rd's, like the Hags with Wilson, Dallas did with Dak, or Wahington did with Cousins a few years back.

Or if the FO really has really done it's due diligence on someone who has for some reason fallen down somewhat in Rd. 1 (grade) ; you can trade up to grab that prospect before the QB needy teams at the front of Rd. #2 to be a legit QBOF candidate.

 

[Buckybird]

Says the guy who has never seen him start an NFL game. Let's wait & see. I'd suggest we see what he's got before suggesting a draft pick will be better in a poor QB draft.

How many NFL games have you seen him start? I'm quite sure the Kurt Warner story isn't gonna strike pay dirt with this guy once again. Lol

 

[Ronin]

CollegeFootball 24/7 ‏@NFL_CFB 29s29 seconds ago
Two teams to keep an eye on regarding interest in QB Davis Webb: #Browns and #Cardinals. http://on.nfl.com/HNAGuE (via @MoveTheSticks)

Despite being selected as the MVP of the Reese's Senior Bowl last month, Webb hasn't received much hype in media circles. However, I can confirm this executive isn't the only one intrigued by the big pocket passer. In fact, I think he is likely to go in the second round and I wouldn't be totally shocked if he snuck into the back of Round 1. Two teams to keep an eye on: the Cardinals and Browns. Webb's skill set fits perfectly in Arizona's offense, and Hue Jackson's Browns staff coached him at the Senior Bowl. -- Daniel Jeremiah

 

[TRW]

We all know it's a crap shoot in drafting that elusive QBOF. How many legitimate year in and year out winners are there in the league? Someone who perennially has a chance of getting a team to the Big Game? Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Big Ben? Maybe you can include Eli Manning? I don't know. Maybe 5 or 6 guys out of 32?

Then there are a handful that, if circumstances allow, MIGHT be able to like Breese, Newton, Flacco, who each got to one? All except Breese were DRAFTED by the team that they led to a Super Bowl I think. The last 7 Super Bowls had teams led by a QB who was "home grown" again, except for Breese.

That being said, when your QB is at the end you need SOMETHING besides Drew Freakin' Stanton in the wings. The chances of landing a FA or trade for a top notch guy, while not impossible, is really, really worse than a crap shoot. And, I know, the Cards got lightning in the bottle TWICE with Warner and Palmer. Tony Romo? Jay Cutler? Kap? Tyrod Taylor? At this stage in their careers Taylor might be the best to gamble on.

One thing that is certain in today's NFL that if you draft a guy you have 4 or 5 years on that rookie salaray and can use the cap room for other areas a la the Seahawks and Wilson and now Dallas and Dak. Finding those guys is not easy but it shows it CAN be done.

The Cards have to get better at recognizing talent in a QB and draft one some time don't they? If not this draft (unless one of the top rated drop to them) then, for sure, next year. Maybe the plan is to let this season be BA and the Gang's last hurrah and then reboot with a new coach in 2018 and let him have some input on that count in the 2018 draft.

2017 is seemingly set in stone with Palmer and Stanton but it probably is a one more year and done situation. Palmer may have another in him after next season but I seriously doubt it.

Conundrum, indeed.

 

[JeffGollin]

Strategies:

If there's a free agent QB that BA&SK really love, overspend if necessary to get him.

If there's no free agent QB available but there's someone BA&SK love in the draft, trade up if necessary to nab him.

If there's no QB they absolutely love, go the Mud Against the Wall route and draft QB's early and often.

Word of Caution: Don't overspend on a QB you're not totally sure of (lest you destroy your draft and wind up with nada.

 

[Metcalf Rules]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but Peter King says he wouldn't be surprised if Jay Cutler ends up a Cardinal.

http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2017/2/20/14671250/jay-cutler-to-the-arizona-cardinals