The Combine IS A WASTE OF TIME

[JeffGollin]

The Combine may be misused by many teams, but it's not a waste of time:

1. It gives scouts the chance to see how players compare to one another when they're all in one place.

2. It gives them the opportunity to fill in a few blanks on a prospect's resume - for example - last year, Leonard Pope showed scouts that he wasn't a "body snatcher" but a natural pass catcher plucking the ball with his hands away from his body. (It also showed scouts that he had to bend at the knees better due to his height when blocking - in order to get his pad level under his opponent to gain leverage).

3. The forty (and also the 10 and 20) yard dash can help a scout decide whether or or not an underrated, lunch-pail type skill guy actually has the speed or quickness to compete at the next level or whether he'll be victimized in matchuos.

4. A smart interviewer may be able to determine what's sincere and what's con.

That said - the biggest misuse of the Combine is that it lets scouts assess a prospect's "touch football" skills. It does not measure stuff like (a) the willingness to hit or be hit, (b) the coachability of a player or (c) what kind of heart he has when his team is down 20 points midway thru a game or he's overcoming a hip bruise to help his team gut it out in the 4Q.

 

[Faithful]

I suppose if they had a test to see who can jump over the highest pole and land back on their feet, Adrian Wilson would have been the #1 player taken.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

That said - the biggest misuse of the Combine is that it lets scouts assess a prospect's "touch football" skills. It does not measure stuff like (a) the willingness to hit or be hit, (b) the coachability of a player or (c) what kind of heart he has when his team is down 20 points midway thru a game or he's overcoming a hip bruise to help his team gut it out in the 4Q.

These are very important aspects of drafting a player .. good post ...

Example .. JJ "tiptoe" Arrington ... its too bad we didn't know he was scared to run in the NFL before we drafted him ...

 

[john h]

I NEVER get how players somehow jump from the 3rd round into the 1st round because of the combine. If he couldn't do it on the field, why the f do you care if he can work out better than the rest? Likewise I see players drop who have no reason to, but again freaking 'combine' numbers.

It's an entire waste of time. Any coach or team who moves a player up or down on their board because of the combine is a f'n fool!

4.32 vs. 4.4 on one run...who cares....

anyone hyping a player here because of the combine is just as much the fool.

According to several head coaches on ESPN the time trials can mean everything. Not just the skill players but also and perhaps more important the line players. The coaches have minimums for speed at nearly every position. If you cannot reach than minimum there stats may show the player has an 85% failure to play in the NFL and the team may not even look at you. ESPN had about a 20 minute show on how the combine works. The speed trials have never changed and have withstood the test of time. A fast time for a runner or receiver might up his bonus by millions of dollars. Matt Jones sure raised his value as a receiver (former QB) when he ran under a 4.4 for a guy 6'6".

 

[Russ Smith]

According to several head coaches on ESPN the time trials can mean everything. Not just the skill players but also and perhaps more important the line players. The coaches have minimums for speed at nearly every position. If you cannot reach than minimum there stats may show the player has an 85% failure to play in the NFL and the team may not even look at you. ESPN had about a 20 minute show on how the combine works. The speed trials have never changed and have withstood the test of time. A fast time for a runner or receiver might up his bonus by millions of dollars. Matt Jones sure raised his value as a receiver (former QB) when he ran under a 4.4 for a guy 6'6".

I saw that too but the part I considered telling was when they guy talked about "False or misleading times." I've been talking about that for awhile on this board myself. Kids are training so specifically for the combine now and in particular the 40 and the shuttles, that it's misleading. You're not getting a true measure of speed anymore you're getting a test of which guy had the best speed training.

Guys are running faster times but just because of special training that won't carry over to the field. The other thing is a lot of those kids get hurt in camp, I've read several things that says speed training overemphasizes certain things that lead to pulled muscles later if they don't properly "detox" after doing it. That's why sprinters are always pulling muscles, NFL prospects just aren't used to those workouts and they end up getting hurt when they return to normal football stuff.

 

[Gambit]

What do you mean waste of time? The combine is what convinced the Texans to take Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and Vince Young. It's not a waste of time...

...it's the instrument of the Archfiend.

 

[TheCardFan]

How does that help when they are not actually playing football?

I think it's a joke that the NFL hasn't learned their lesson on over inflating the value of the combine...look at the film people!

5-11 vs 6-1, 4.3 vs 4.4, etc...blah blah blah.

If you could measure heart...that's another story.

Just to be clear...I don't think it's a waste of time. I think it's a very good way to learn things about players you wouldn't normally get to learn...however, too many times, teams use "measureables" to move players up or down instead of "performance".

If a WR can't get seperation from most college DB's on film, then I don't care if he runs a 4.1 during the combine and his pro day...he won't get seperation in the NFL. But if a WR not getting seperation on film runs a 4.3, all of a sudden NFL teams think they have found something and the guy moves up.

STUPID STUPID STUPID.

Why don't they make these guys do all the drills with pads on?

 

[Captain Matt]

Don't recall the source but once (recently) read about agents introducing underclassmen to "combine-ologists" going into their junior and senior years for tips on how to train - then hiring these guys as full-time consultants for the players (sometimes as high as $10K) between the bowl games and the combine. I believe in economics - when there is aviable market (prepping for the comine) then someone is buying into the product (owners, coaches, evaluators, etc.). But I'm with everyone here in saying the numbers aren't extremely important.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I would not say the combine is a waste of time. BUT it has been blown out of proportion. The results should be looked at as a guide, not as a fact.

Jerry Rice ran a 4.6 at the combine yet consistantly burned DB's for years.

Boldin ran a 4.6 but where is the test for the WR that can catch a pass and knock over 4 DB's ?


If I were looking at college talent I would give more wieght to the game films, and the interview process than any of the measurables you get from the combine.

 

[Goldfield]

Truth is, teams are spending a fortune on these top rookies and they want to know EVERYTHING they can about them.

 

[lobo]

These are very important aspects of drafting a player .. good post ...

Example .. JJ "tiptoe" Arrington ... its too bad we didn't know he was scared to run in the NFL before we drafted him ...

Yup. If I recall JJ took a big hit in his first year in the NFL and since then it he has been "light on" (sorta the opposite of a lights out guy)

Not that anyone is interested or knows my brother, but i remember when he first got up in a little league game, and by the way he is a good athlete, he got hit in the noggen on the first pitch...he was lights out after that..and never could get up again...he was the "wrong lights out."

 

[Mulli]

Yup. If I recall JJ took a big hit in his first year in the NFL and since then it he has been "light on" (sorta the opposite of a lights out guy)

Not that anyone is interested or knows my brother, but i remember when he first got up in a little league game, and by the way he is a good athlete, he got hit in the noggen on the first pitch...he was lights out after that..and never could get up again...he was the "wrong lights out."

Is your brother Don Zimmer or Dickey Thon?

 

[JC_AZ]

I think the point is to assess their raw talent, the rest can be taught while raw talent is genetic.

Unless you are drafted by DG and "coached" by his useless minion of fools...good riddens to the NON-COACHING STAFF under DG! Hell they probably spent their time cooking chili dogs for his fat "arse" rather than looking at film...it is all very clear to me now!

 

[JC_AZ]

Now there's blasphemy in my book. Surely there are studies about how many players bomb correlated with low W scores. [Is it true Dubya's wonderlic score was 4?]

It is possible...just think, his grades were higher than both Gore and Kerry...imagine the foolishness had they been elected

 

[CardLogic]

From today's EV Tribune:

Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt arrived in Indianapolis Wednesday, along with some of his offensive assistants such as assistant head coach/offensive line coach Russ Grimm and offensive coordinator Todd Haley. Whisenhunt and vice president of football operations Rod Graves are scheduled to meet with the 300-plus media contingent in Indianapolis Saturday. …

Whisenhunt said the most important part of the combine isn’t the drills for the potential draftees but the interview process. The new coach has repeatedly stressed the need for players who will fit on his team.

“You are trying to find out as much as you can about them in a little amount of time,” Whisenhunt said.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Good talent evaluators get lots of good information at the combine.
Bad talent evaluators get fooled.

The combine is definitely not a waste. It rewards competent front offices and exposes the poor ones.

You get the hat trick:

 

[SuperSpck]

Yesterday on Pardon the Interuption it was mentioned that Brady Quinn has been working with lots of different trainers in many different fields

(pass mechanics, footwork specialists, general combine specialists, even a trainer that could help work with a muscle in the eye that would allow him to see more of the field better than he could before)

to help raise his draft stock in hopes of being the first overall pick.


What muscle helps the eyes? I wanna do eye exercises! Neat.