The Cut List

[az jam]

I really expect Palmer and Fitz to be back for the 2017 season. But we need to draft replacements for both of them. Chandler Jones is a must sign. I think we will lose CC. I also feel we can be a decent team next year. We need to completely redo our Special Teams. (i.e. coach, kicker, punter, and K&P return players) They costs us 3 or 4 games.
Will have a better feel for the draft after the bowl games, senior bowl and the Combine. Plus we will know our final draft position, it could be in the top ten.

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree with all of your choices and reasons, except perhaps for WR John Brown, who may well be able to get the right treatment and still be a value at his low salary.

The thing that sticks in my craw a little is the notion that all of the moves you made could be soaked up by signing one player: Chandler Jones.

Thus, I would like to know what your sense is about signing Chandler Jones or keeping him another year at an f-tag rate of $17.5M.

And, just as Yeahbut asked, whom do you tout as Palmer's replacement?

Plus---there are a couple of other players to consider versus the cap: DT Corey Peters and backup QB Drew Stanton who tie up over $6M in 2017 cap space if they are kept. Your thoughts on them?

Aren't we paying Jones just under 8 million? So if we pay him 17.5 doesn't that only add 9.5 million to our cap?

 

[Russ Smith]

The number was wrong on Brown. I just corrected to $700K.

You won't like my suggestions. I'm looking for a QB that won't lose the game, a Trent Dilfer type. I'm sorry to say it but I think Palmer is done.

Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler and Nick Foles come to mind. They would just be a bridge to the QBOTF whom the Cards should draft. The right guy might take over by mid-season. They all should be available for $2 million. Are they better than Palmer? Likely they aren't, but sadly they may not be much worse. Cutler differs from the other two, as BA would likely game plan more aggressively if he were the QB.

People keep writing that with a better O-line Palmer would be fine. He wouldn't. Teams have seen his mobility decline and his general indecisiveness. They'll blitz him if they have to do do. He has not done well on hot reads this year,.

You're not comparing Cutler to Dilfer? They're exact opposites, one with little physical tools but doesn't make huge mistakes, one with tons of physical tools who constantly makes the big mistakes that cost you games.

Keim already said he expects Arians, Palmer and Fitz back next year so it seems unlikely that's a plan although it obviously could change if one of them doesn't want to stay

 

[GatorAZ]

You're not comparing Cutler to Dilfer? They're exact opposites, one with little physical tools but doesn't make huge mistakes, one with tons of physical tools who constantly makes the big mistakes that cost you games.

Keim already said he expects Arians, Palmer and Fitz back next year so it seems unlikely that's a plan although it obviously could change if one of them doesn't want to stay

That's a common misconception about Dilfer. He was awful and threw a ton of picks. Cutler 3.3 int% // Dilfer 4.1int%

Talent wise I agree it's not even close...

 

[TJ]

I disagree on Palmer. His WR's have been awful this year and get zero separation. His arm looks fine to me. Early in the year his mechanics seemed to be off a bit but he's been fine, throwing the ball with accuracy and velocity, lately. Plus, look at all the key drops JJ Nelson and Floyd have had this year. It's going to be tough on any QB when your two top targets are Fitz and Gresham. Fitz is still awesome but both of those guys are very coverable these days. John Brown's illness has really hampered this offense.

Fells, Smokey, Floyd, and Nelson took steps back, whether it be through injury/illness, poor route running, and dropped passes.

Palmer is not as done as people lead you to believe.


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[RON_IN_OC]

That's a common misconception about Dilfer. He was awful and threw a ton of picks. Cutler 3.3 int% // Dilfer 4.1int%

Talent wise I agree it's not even close...

In Dilfers SB year, didn't Baltimore fail to score an offensive point for like 3-4 games...in a row? I'm sorry, but that's not game managing. That's inept. Managing a game means you limit mistakes, but can still direct a scoring drive, when your team needs it. Alex Smith is more of a game manager.

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[Harry]

Actually if you look at Cutler's play in Denver, he was more under control. He seldom called audibles so he ran the play sent in the vast majority of the time. I would say with BA calling the plays we would likely not see a true game manager anyway.

As to the receivers being part of the problem; they are. Why do you expect next year to be better? Even good WRs drafted early rarely make a year one impact. The Cards will surely sign a free agent, but Palmer likes to throw to a spot and that takes reps. Keep in mind Palmer is so fragile he rarely plays in preseason and doesn't practice on Wednesday. The season may well be decided before the Cards develop a passing game with or without Palmer!

Then there's the lousy line excuse. The line was lousy. Iupati has been a poor passer protector his entire career. If he comes back that won't change. It seems the Cards may have 2 tackles trying to learn new positions. Is Shipley staying? Finally I'm assuming a new right guard. It usually takes quite a few games for lines to get coordinated enough to handle stunts & even basic blitzes.

So next year is mostly a new set of receivers and essentially a new line. Palmer at his best wouldn't look good in this alignment. He's sadly far removed from his best. By the time this passing game comes together Palmer will be past his expiration date! Instead of trying to play this extremely long shot I think it's a better play to take the money and try to accelerate the rebuild. Does anyone think if Palmer stays this team contends for a Super Bowl? If so I'd like to hear the moves the Cards are going to make to cause that to happen.

 

[PJ1]

The thought of that nutcase Cutler being our QB makes me sick. He is not better than Palmer and he will never win a thing. Cutler doesn't have a fraction of toughness Palmer has.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

The thought of that nutcase Cutler being our QB makes me sick. He is not better than Palmer and he will never win a thing. Cutler doesn't have a fraction of toughness Palmer has.

Ehhhhhh...I wouldn't say he's not tough. He's willing to hang in the pocket and take huge shots, which is exactly what BAs offense requires.

He's also been able to play, while managing his diabetes, si ce his early days in Denver...I don't think he's missed a start because of it, since the diagnosis.

He's got a ton of warts, but I wouldn't co sider toughness to be one of them.

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[PJ1]

Not in the same league as Palmer when it comes to toughness.

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually if you look at Cutler's play in Denver, he was more under control. He seldom called audibles so he ran the play sent in the vast majority of the time. I would say with BA calling the plays we would likely not see a true game manager anyway.

As to the receivers being part of the problem; they are. Why do you expect next year to be better? Even good WRs drafted early rarely make a year one impact. The Cards will surely sign a free agent, but Palmer likes to throw to a spot and that takes reps. Keep in mind Palmer is so fragile he rarely plays in preseason and doesn't practice on Wednesday. The season may well be decided before the Cards develop a passing game with or without Palmer!

Then there's the lousy line excuse. The line was lousy. Iupati has been a poor passer protector his entire career. If he comes back that won't change. It seems the Cards may have 2 tackles trying to learn new positions. Is Shipley staying? Finally I'm assuming a new right guard. It usually takes quite a few games for lines to get coordinated enough to handle stunts & even basic blitzes.

So next year is mostly a new set of receivers and essentially a new line. Palmer at his best wouldn't look good in this alignment. He's sadly far removed from his best. By the time this passing game comes together Palmer will be past his expiration date! Instead of trying to play this extremely long shot I think it's a better play to take the money and try to accelerate the rebuild. Does anyone think if Palmer stays this team contends for a Super Bowl? If so I'd like to hear the moves the Cards are going to make to cause that to happen.

The thing with Cutler in Denver is that virtually everyone who played for Mike Shanahan had their best QB years ever, Jake, RG3, Griese etc. the one guy who arguably didn't was Cutler and that's because he was a rookie when he got there. Shanahan is brilliant at crafting a system to hide the weaknesses of his Qb. the problem is eventually he assumed the QB will get better to where he can open up the full playbook, Jake never did so he replaced him with Cutler, and then they fired Shanahan and traded Cutler because the new coach McDaniel wanted his own guy.

Arians IMO is NOTHING like Shanahan, he has his system he wants a QB to fit it, not the other way around.

 

[Stout]

Is Palmer due 24 million next year? We can't let him have a cap hit anywhere NEAR that. That's simply outrageous. I'm with Harry to cut him and move on with our search, but at the very least he has to accept a restructure.

 

[GatorAZ]

Is Palmer due 24 million next year? We can't let him have a cap hit anywhere NEAR that. That's simply outrageous. I'm with Harry to cut him and move on with our search, but at the very least he has to accept a restructure.

What we they need him to do is take an actual paycut. Restructuring will just push the problem into 2019.

 

[Stout]

What we they need him to do is take an actual paycut. Restructuring will just push the problem into 2019.

True. I'd rather move on, but a pay cut would be option #2 for me.

 

[MartinD]

The number was wrong on Brown. I just corrected to $700K.

You won't like my suggestions. I'm looking for a QB that won't lose the game, a Trent Dilfer type. I'm sorry to say it but I think Palmer is done.

Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler and Nick Foles come to mind. They would just be a bridge to the QBOTF whom the Cards should draft. The right guy might take over by mid-season. They all should be available for $2 million. Are they better than Palmer? Likely they aren't, but sadly they may not be much worse. Cutler differs from the other two, as BA would likely game plan more aggressively if he were the QB.

People keep writing that with a better O-line Palmer would be fine. He wouldn't. Teams have seen his mobility decline and his general indecisiveness. They'll blitz him if they have to do do. He has not done well on hot reads this year,.

Our backup QB is making more than $2 million a year, but you believe the team can sign Cutler for less than we pay Stanton?

 

[daves]

In Dilfers SB year, didn't Baltimore fail to score an offensive point for like 3-4 games...in a row? I'm sorry, but that's not game managing. That's inept.

Actually, it was 5 games in a row! But Tony Banks was the QB for the first 4 (of which the Ravens WON two). Dilfer took over in game 9, which was a TD-less 6-9 loss to the Steelers. But from that point on, the Ravens never lost again - averaging 28 points per game in the regular season and 24 PPG in the playoffs (while holding opponents to 10 PPG in the regular season and under 6 PPG in the playoffs).

...dave (I was a Ravens season ticket holder then)

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Already gonna have $42M to spend next offseason.

+1

But, again, no one seems to believe that fact.

Not to mention, by cutting Palmer, who is going to be your QB next year ? Is that QB going to be as good as Palmer, and cost less ?

I say cut Bethel, Peters, and Stanton, and sign Tyrod Taylor when he is cut as a backup since no one is going to sign him to start. There is your mobile QB, if you need him in a pinch, and then draft a young QB.

QB's for 2017:
-Palmer
-Taylor
-Dafted QB

Just a thought, I do not know how realistic or effective it would be.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Is Palmer due 24 million next year? We can't let him have a cap hit anywhere NEAR that. That's simply outrageous. I'm with Harry to cut him and move on with our search, but at the very least he has to accept a restructure.

Not saying either approach is right or wrong.

But in essence you are saying to tank next season, and go full rebuild ? If that is the case, there more than just Palmer and Fitzgerald that should be cut if that is the case.

 

[Stout]

Not saying either approach is right or wrong.

But in essence you are saying to tank next season, and go full rebuild ? If that is the case, there more than just Palmer and Fitzgerald that should be cut if that is the case.

I didn't say to cut Fitz, nor did I say we try to tank this season. First, you can't pay an over-the-hill, on his last legs (if he even has any left) QB 24 million dollars in the last year of his career. You just can't. If 24 million would have brought Warner back for another year, that's an expensive QB risk worth taking. It certainly is not a risk I want us to take with Palmer.

Honestly? I'd view paying Palmer 24 million next year as tanking the season. The problem is that Arians seems to be in ride or die mode with Palmer, grasping at straws and pushing his utmost NOT to address the QBOTF problem because that would take away from win now mode. My secondary fear is that Keim agrees with him and will try to go all out. This can easily lead to us ignoring the most crucial position on our team--AGAIN--and then we go into the season and suck because we have an old QB and a weakened roster because we paid that old man QB 24 million dollars. Then we do tank, and yay? Because we may be in position to draft a QB. But boo, because then the QBOTF likely won't be ready until 2019 or so, if we're lucky.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

We are not just paying him $25mil, if we cut him, we are paying the prorated portion at $13.2mil

Since you lose that regardless, the question should be, do we start Palmer next year for $10,875,000 or use that to add other positions and roll with Stanton/Dysart + unknown? And whomevee you bring in at QB will likely cost a minimum of $5mil - a list of UFA's is at the bottom - feel free to let us know you tickles your fancy...

Palmer:
2017 Cap Hit $13,250,000
2017 Cap Savings $10,875,000

Player Pos. 2016 Team 2017 Team Type Current APY ▾ Guarantees
Kirk Cousins Redskins UFA $19,953,000 $19,953,000
Case Keenum Rams UFA $3,635,000
Shaun Hill Vikings UFA $3,250,000
Matthew McGloin Raiders UFA $2,553,000
EJ Manuel Bills UFA $2,221,325
Mark Sanchez Cowboys UFA
Matt Cassel Titans UFA $2,000,000 $750,000
Brian Hoyer Bears UFA $2,000,000 $750,000
Blaine Gabbert 49ers UFA $2,000,000 $500,000
Matt Schaub Falcons UFA $1,750,000 $500,000
Geno Smith Jets UFA $1,254,901 $3,068,784
Austin Davis Broncos UFA $1,250,000 $0
Ryan Mallett Ravens UFA $1,122,500 $0
Kellen Clemens Chargers UFA $1,065,000 $80,000
Dan Orlovsky Lions UFA $1,065,000 $160,000
Josh Johnson Giants UFA $885,000 $0
Christian Ponder 49ers UFA $800,000 $0
Mike Glennon Buccaneers UFA $776,016 $637,500
Thaddeus Lewis 49ers UFA $760,000 $0
TJ Yates Dolphins UFA $760,000 $0
Kellen Moore Cowboys UFA $710,000 $0
Matt Barkley Bears UFA $675,000 $0
Ryan Nassib Giants UFA $653,400 $453,600
Landry Jones Steelers UFA $649,805 $439,220

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I didn't say to cut Fitz, nor did I say we try to tank this season. First, you can't pay an over-the-hill, on his last legs (if he even has any left) QB 24 million dollars in the last year of his career. You just can't. If 24 million would have brought Warner back for another year, that's an expensive QB risk worth taking. It certainly is not a risk I want us to take with Palmer.

Honestly? I'd view paying Palmer 24 million next year as tanking the season. The problem is that Arians seems to be in ride or die mode with Palmer, grasping at straws and pushing his utmost NOT to address the QBOTF problem because that would take away from win now mode. My secondary fear is that Keim agrees with him and will try to go all out. This can easily lead to us ignoring the most crucial position on our team--AGAIN--and then we go into the season and suck because we have an old QB and a weakened roster because we paid that old man QB 24 million dollars. Then we do tank, and yay? Because we may be in position to draft a QB. But boo, because then the QBOTF likely won't be ready until 2019 or so, if we're lucky.

OK. Yes, I understand what you are saying about Palmer.

Who is your QB then ?

I really cannot see where the Cardinals are going to get a QB better than Palmer for 2017. They can draft one, but its going to take a year for him to develop, its not like the roster is like the one in Dallas with the talent surrounding Prescott.

Free agency ? Maybe Mike Glennon is all that and a bag a chips, and he is the solution.

I guess my take is, if you feel like we are tanking by keeping Palmer, then I would say its safe to say there is a 95% chance next season is going to be "tanking" no matter what.

At that point, what is the point in keeping Fitzgerald around, or Cory Peters, or any veteran that won't be there for the 2018 season ?

Its all good, and a valid discussion for the offseason tho. We all have to remember that 2016 Carson Palmer is who Palmer is, 2017 was the outlier, so at least we know what we have in Palmer more accurately going into the offseason. Thus while I think Palmer is our best bet for next season, I am certainly not saying that he 100% cannot be let go. If an option in free agency comes along, and the Cardinals think that QB can be the guy, then I am all for it. I like Carson Palmer but he is who he is, and his age is what it is.

Its going to be an interesting offseason, that is for sure.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We are not just paying him $25mil, if we cut him, we are paying the prorated portion at $13.2mil

Since you lose that regardless, the question should be, do we start Palmer next year for $10,875,000 or use that to add other positions and roll with Stanton/Dysart + unknown? And whomevee you bring in at QB will likely cost a minimum of $5mil - a list of UFA's is at the bottom - feel free to let us know you tickles your fancy...

Palmer:
2017 Cap Hit $13,250,000
2017 Cap Savings $10,875,000

Player Pos. 2016 Team 2017 Team Type Current APY ▾ Guarantees
Kirk Cousins Redskins UFA $19,953,000 $19,953,000
Case Keenum Rams UFA $3,635,000
Shaun Hill Vikings UFA $3,250,000
Matthew McGloin Raiders UFA $2,553,000
EJ Manuel Bills UFA $2,221,325
Mark Sanchez Cowboys UFA
Matt Cassel Titans UFA $2,000,000 $750,000
Brian Hoyer Bears UFA $2,000,000 $750,000
Blaine Gabbert 49ers UFA $2,000,000 $500,000
Matt Schaub Falcons UFA $1,750,000 $500,000
Geno Smith Jets UFA $1,254,901 $3,068,784
Austin Davis Broncos UFA $1,250,000 $0
Ryan Mallett Ravens UFA $1,122,500 $0
Kellen Clemens Chargers UFA $1,065,000 $80,000
Dan Orlovsky Lions UFA $1,065,000 $160,000
Josh Johnson Giants UFA $885,000 $0
Christian Ponder 49ers UFA $800,000 $0
Mike Glennon Buccaneers UFA $776,016 $637,500
Thaddeus Lewis 49ers UFA $760,000 $0
TJ Yates Dolphins UFA $760,000 $0
Kellen Moore Cowboys UFA $710,000 $0
Matt Barkley Bears UFA $675,000 $0
Ryan Nassib Giants UFA $653,400 $453,600
Landry Jones Steelers UFA $649,805 $439,220

Mike Glennon is the QB the Cardinals want to sign. All the local AZ news people are saying that, nothing confirmed, but where there is smoke......

There is no way Cousins is hitting the open market.

The only other situation I like, and I may be crazy here, is if the Bills let Tyrod Taylor go, I would release Stanton, and pick up Taylor, and then plan to draft a QB.

At worse, Taylor can run for his life behind this offensive line, and create enough offense if the defense is rebuilt correctly. Not to mention Taylor can throw it deep...............just not accurately. LOL

 

[Finito]

I would love going into next year with Glennon and a rookie first round QB on the roster.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I would love going into next year with Glennon and a rookie first round QB on the roster.

Why????? I can see drafting a QB(Watson) in round 2 but why would you want Glennon over Palmer at QB? Not only is Palmer better, Glennon will likely take a long term contract to sign him at decent money. Wouldn't you want your 1st rounder to be able to take over for Palmer the following year while still having a legit shot to win in 2017?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

+1

But, again, no one seems to believe that fact.

Not to mention, by cutting Palmer, who is going to be your QB next year ? Is that QB going to be as good as Palmer, and cost less ?

I say cut Bethel, Peters, and Stanton, and sign Tyrod Taylor when he is cut as a backup since no one is going to sign him to start. There is your mobile QB, if you need him in a pinch, and then draft a young QB.

QB's for 2017:
-Palmer
-Taylor
-Dafted QB

Just a thought, I do not know how realistic or effective it would be.

I like this plan. Tyrod being mobile would bring another element to the offense.