The Cut List

[cardpa]

The thing with Cutler in Denver is that virtually everyone who played for Mike Shanahan had their best QB years ever, Jake, RG3, Griese etc. the one guy who arguably didn't was Cutler and that's because he was a rookie when he got there. Shanahan is brilliant at crafting a system to hide the weaknesses of his Qb. the problem is eventually he assumed the QB will get better to where he can open up the full playbook, Jake never did so he replaced him with Cutler, and then they fired Shanahan and traded Cutler because the new coach McDaniel wanted his own guy.

Arians IMO is NOTHING like Shanahan, he has his system he wants a QB to fit it, not the other way around.

Excellent point Russ, Arians needs/wants a QB that will fit his system and he doesn't/will not/won't modify his system to fit a QB that although may be a good QB just isn't a good fit for the Arians system. The problem with system coaches is it's brilliant when all the parts are in good working order and running smoothly, however when one of the parts breaks down, the whole system comes to a grinding halt.

 

[Russ Smith]

Excellent point Russ, Arians needs/wants a QB that will fit his system and he doesn't/will not/won't modify his system to fit a QB that although may be a good QB just isn't a good fit for the Arians system. The problem with system coaches is it's brilliant when all the parts are in good working order and running smoothly, however when one of the parts breaks down, the whole system comes to a grinding halt.

The counter to that is the issue Shanahan had, if you design the system to fit a specific QB, and that guy gets hurt, you better have a backup who can play the same system. That's why he wanted to get rid of Plummer, Jake didn't study film which drove him nuts, but equally was he always had to try and find a backup who could move around throw on the run etc because that's the system he had to install to hide what Jake did poorly.

They brought in Cutler and surprise, had to put the same offense in and he eventually got fired and the new coach wanted his own guy. Shanahan went to Washington, they got RG3 and he had to design an offense to make him look good and when he got hurt, they had to redesign the whole offense around Cousins which is why Shanahan isn't the coach anymore.

Which is why most NFL coaches still want a QB that excels in the pocket.

 

[Mitch]

Dead Money vs. Gained Cap Space:

Palmer---13.3M---10.9M
Fitzgerald---9.7M---6.2M
Veldheer---6.5M---3.8M
Iupati---7.1M---2.6M
Washington---2.5M---4.7M
Bethel---1.5M---3.8M
Branch---1.8M---2.8M
Stanton---2.5M---1.5M
Peters---0.7M---3.0M
Niklas---0.3M---0.9M

When one looks at it this way---the ones who figure to be released are Washington, Bethel, Branch, Peters and Niklas

Dead Space combined: $6.8M

Gained Cap Space: $15.4M

Now---get Palmer to take a pay cut on the $10.9M---like half of it. And that puts gained cap space over $20M.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Now---get Palmer to take a pay cut on the $10.9M---like half of it. And that puts gained cap space over $20M.

That sounds nice, except that the Cardinals need Palmer more than Palmer needs the Cardinals. He isn't going to be taking a 50% pay cut. No chance.

 

[TJ]

Dead Money vs. Gained Cap Space:

Palmer---13.3M---10.9M
Fitzgerald---9.7M---6.2M
Veldheer---6.5M---3.8M
Iupati---7.1M---2.6M
Washington---2.5M---4.7M
Bethel---1.5M---3.8M
Branch---1.8M---2.8M
Stanton---2.5M---1.5M
Peters---0.7M---3.0M
Niklas---0.3M---0.9M

When one looks at it this way---the ones who figure to be released are Washington, Bethel, Branch, Peters and Niklas

Dead Space combined: $6.8M

Gained Cap Space: $15.4M

Now---get Palmer to take a pay cut on the $10.9M---like half of it. And that puts gained cap space over $20M.

What incentive does Palmer have to accept a pay cut?


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[LarryStalling]

What incentive does Palmer have to accept a pay cut?


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The freedom to run for his life behind this offensive line.

 

[TJ]

The freedom to run for his life behind this offensive line.

Touché...


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[GatorAZ]

Mike Glennon is the QB the Cardinals want to sign. All the local AZ news people are saying that, nothing confirmed, but where there is smoke......

There is no way Cousins is hitting the open market.

The only other situation I like, and I may be crazy here, is if the Bills let Tyrod Taylor go, I would release Stanton, and pick up Taylor, and then plan to draft a QB.

At worse, Taylor can run for his life behind this offensive line, and create enough offense if the defense is rebuilt correctly. Not to mention Taylor can throw it deep...............just not accurately. LOL

Gambo is insisting the Cards love him and Keim/Licht have had trade discussions in the past. If the Cards want to go the younger Glennon route bad enough to cut Palmer then QB cap-hit would be just as high as if Carson stuck around. He's not signing a Stanton-type deal to come in here. Think something around not much less than what Osweiler got. After all he's a QB.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Gambo .....

You lost me at Gambo.

 

[Mitch]

That sounds nice, except that the Cardinals need Palmer more than Palmer needs the Cardinals. He isn't going to be taking a 50% pay cut. No chance.

dreamcastrocks: He would still be making $13.3M guaranteed + $5.5M = $18.8M

T.J.: Palmer's incentive to take a pay cut would be to give the team the best chance to go for the ring. Adding $5.5M to the cap could mean adding a good, veteran RG plus helping to re-sign TE Gresham.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I still don't see it.

 

[MrYeahBut]

imo, you can talk about Carson taking a pay cut, but the contract is the team's problem, not his. It's just business.

 

[Mitch]

imo, you can talk about Carson taking a pay cut, but the contract is the team's problem, not his. It's just business.

Yes---but with an added $5.5M the center and guard positions can be fortified.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Carson is not getting cut or traded regardless of what he does with the contract. If anyone wants to have an intelligent forecast of the future and the Cards, leave Carson out of the equation and that will help you out

 

[Mitch]

Does anyone realize that Tom Brady counts a total of $13.7M on this year's cap? $14M next year. This is one of the many reasons why the Patriots win year after year. The organization and the players understand the kind of talent and depth it takes to make a run at the Super Bowl every year. Gronk next year counts a total of $7M.

The fact is---there is no way they would have ever paid Calais Campbell $15.3M on the cap in any given year. The Pats would go nowhere near paying Carson Palmer $24.1M. Palmer at $24.1M is so far out of the question, both in terms of what his fair market value is at his age and coming off a down year and how that cap figure stifles and restricts the overall talent and depth of the roster.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Does anyone realize that Tom Brady counts a total of $13.7M on this year's cap? $14M next year. This is one of the many reasons why the Patriots win year after year. The organization and the players understand the kind of talent and depth it takes to make a run at the Super Bowl every year. Gronk next year counts a total of $7M.

The fact is---there is no way they would have ever paid Calais Campbell $15.3M on the cap in any given year. The Pats would go nowhere near paying Carson Palmer $24.1M. Palmer at $24.1M is so far out of the question, both in terms of what his fair market value is at his age and coming off a down year and how that cap figure stifles and restricts the overall talent and depth of the roster.

Amazing what a winning program and a legacy can do for you Mitch... we do not have that at Arizona, us like a majority of other teams have to pay full amount

 

[Mitch]

Amazing what a winning program and a legacy can do for you Mitch... we do not have that at Arizona, us like a majority of other teams have to pay full amount

The thing is, though, Roy, the Cardinals don't have to pay the full amount. One of Steve Keim's greatest strengths, imo, is determining fair market value and drawing the line. I wonder if Keim will ever go another year paying a player way more than what his market value is, as he did this year with Campbell. It's out of desperation where teams start trending downward.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The thing is, though, Roy, the Cardinals don't have to pay the full amount. One of Steve Keim's greatest strengths, imo, is determining fair market value and drawing the line. I wonder if Keim will ever go another year paying a player way more than what his market value is, as he did this year with Campbell. It's out of desperation where teams start trending downward.

So Keim is going to draw the line on a contract that is still in progress which he signed with a QB whose a year removed from breaking franchise records and might be the reason your Hall of Fame WR, not to mention others, still see this team as a competitive destination... sorry Mitch, I luv you man but all this talk about Palmer is not realistic in my opinion

 

[WisconsinCard]

Does anyone realize that Tom Brady counts a total of $13.7M on this year's cap? $14M next year. This is one of the many reasons why the Patriots win year after year. The organization and the players understand the kind of talent and depth it takes to make a run at the Super Bowl every year. Gronk next year counts a total of $7M.

The fact is---there is no way they would have ever paid Calais Campbell $15.3M on the cap in any given year. The Pats would go nowhere near paying Carson Palmer $24.1M. Palmer at $24.1M is so far out of the question, both in terms of what his fair market value is at his age and coming off a down year and how that cap figure stifles and restricts the overall talent and depth of the roster.

Well he did also get a 30 million dollar signing bonus, and a guarantee if he is injured he still get paid.

 

[GatorAZ]

Does anyone realize that Tom Brady counts a total of $13.7M on this year's cap? $14M next year. This is one of the many reasons why the Patriots win year after year. The organization and the players understand the kind of talent and depth it takes to make a run at the Super Bowl every year. Gronk next year counts a total of $7M.

The fact is---there is no way they would have ever paid Calais Campbell $15.3M on the cap in any given year. The Pats would go nowhere near paying Carson Palmer $24.1M. Palmer at $24.1M is so far out of the question, both in terms of what his fair market value is at his age and coming off a down year and how that cap figure stifles and restricts the overall talent and depth of the roster.

Gisele is the breadwinner of the family...

Tom Brady net worth and salary: Tom Brady is an American football quarterback and model who has a net worth of $180 million and an annual salary of $26.5 million... Gisele Bundchen net worth: Gisele Bundchen is a Brazilian super model who has a net worth of $360 million.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We are not just paying him $25mil, if we cut him, we are paying the prorated portion at $13.2mil

Since you lose that regardless, the question should be, do we start Palmer next year for $10,875,000 or use that to add other positions and roll with Stanton/Dysart + unknown? And whomevee you bring in at QB will likely cost a minimum of $5mil - a list of UFA's is at the bottom - feel free to let us know you tickles your fancy...

Palmer:
2017 Cap Hit $13,250,000
2017 Cap Savings $10,875,000

Player Pos. 2016 Team 2017 Team Type Current APY ▾ Guarantees
Kirk Cousins Redskins UFA $19,953,000 $19,953,000
Case Keenum Rams UFA $3,635,000
Shaun Hill Vikings UFA $3,250,000
Matthew McGloin Raiders UFA $2,553,000
EJ Manuel Bills UFA $2,221,325
Mark Sanchez Cowboys UFA
Matt Cassel Titans UFA $2,000,000 $750,000
Brian Hoyer Bears UFA $2,000,000 $750,000
Blaine Gabbert 49ers UFA $2,000,000 $500,000
Matt Schaub Falcons UFA $1,750,000 $500,000
Geno Smith Jets UFA $1,254,901 $3,068,784
Austin Davis Broncos UFA $1,250,000 $0
Ryan Mallett Ravens UFA $1,122,500 $0
Kellen Clemens Chargers UFA $1,065,000 $80,000
Dan Orlovsky Lions UFA $1,065,000 $160,000
Josh Johnson Giants UFA $885,000 $0
Christian Ponder 49ers UFA $800,000 $0
Mike Glennon Buccaneers UFA $776,016 $637,500
Thaddeus Lewis 49ers UFA $760,000 $0
TJ Yates Dolphins UFA $760,000 $0
Kellen Moore Cowboys UFA $710,000 $0
Matt Barkley Bears UFA $675,000 $0
Ryan Nassib Giants UFA $653,400 $453,600
Landry Jones Steelers UFA $649,805 $439,220

Man.. call me nuts, but I feel a ton better about Palmer's $13.2 Million Cap Hit versus whatever that number is gonna be for Chandler Jones...

 

[cardpa]

Does anyone realize that Tom Brady counts a total of $13.7M on this year's cap? $14M next year. This is one of the many reasons why the Patriots win year after year. The organization and the players understand the kind of talent and depth it takes to make a run at the Super Bowl every year. Gronk next year counts a total of $7M.

The fact is---there is no way they would have ever paid Calais Campbell $15.3M on the cap in any given year. The Pats would go nowhere near paying Carson Palmer $24.1M. Palmer at $24.1M is so far out of the question, both in terms of what his fair market value is at his age and coming off a down year and how that cap figure stifles and restricts the overall talent and depth of the roster.

Here is the difference between the Patriots and the Cardinals, the top 5 salaries for the Patriots is 29.68% of their cap. The top 5 salaries for the Cardinals is 43.72% of their cap. This is for 2016. For 2017 and this only includes players under contract NE - 28.9% Cardinals - 42.83% A difference of almost 14% which is why the Cardinals have cap problems. They are at almost 43% of their cap and that is without Jones or Campbell under a contract. Palmer is almost twice the hit as Brady.

NE top 5
Tom Brady
Nate Solder
Devin McCourty
Danny Amendola
Rob Gronkowski

AZ top 5
Carson Palmer
Larry Fitzgerald
Patrick Peterson
Jared Veldheer
Mike Iupati

 

[Lagerfilled]

Here is the difference between the Patriots and the Cardinals, the top 5 salaries for the Patriots is 29.68% of their cap. The top 5 salaries for the Cardinals is 43.72% of their cap. This is for 2016. For 2017 and this only includes players under contract NE - 28.9% Cardinals - 42.83% A difference of almost 14% which is why the Cardinals have cap problems. They are at almost 43% of their cap and that is without Jones or Campbell under a contract. Palmer is almost twice the hit as Brady.

NE top 5
Tom Brady
Nate Solder
Devin McCourty
Danny Amendola
Rob Gronkowski

AZ top 5
Carson Palmer
Larry Fitzgerald
Patrick Peterson
Jared Veldheer
Mike Iupati

All of those players on the Cardinals are better than the corresponding players on the Pats save Brady & Gronk

 

[Harry]

Glennon will be expensive, though not as costly as Palmer. However, cutting Palmer to sign him is of little value. It seems several teams are interested. I rate him decent but not special. He'd be a decent interim QB, but not at his probable price.

 

[football karma]

Harry: let's say the Cards end up drafting at #9

It seems the most likely QB to be there, if one is there, is Deshaun Watson of Clemson

Do you take him?

For the Arians mold, Watson is a bit short but has a live arm. For the Arians offense, super raw. But-- a natural leader, athletic and apparently, a hard worker and good kid. Arians has an in with Dabo, so he likely gets a true appraisal.