The D'Antoni reason we were snubbed by Free Agents

[Yuma]

Tyronne Lue:

"I wanted to go to Phoenix, but I knew (former coach Mike) D'Antoni only played seven people in his rotation," Lue said. "With (new coach) Terry Porter there and Nash needing more rest, it'd be a great place for me."

I hope a new coach returns us back to getting free agents wanting to be in Phoenix again. Now if we could shut Jalen Rose up....

 

[Roca Dolla]

Tyronne Lue:

I hope a new coach returns us back to getting free agents wanting to be in Phoenix again. Now if we could shut Jalen Rose up....

why that ?

 

[Irish]

Rose was obviously pretty vocal about wanting to play and blamed D'Antoni for not getting him into the games. I think that was part of it, but the fact tha nobody wanted him last summer should be considered as well.

Image is everything and Lue realized that D'Antoni was going to stay with Barbosa even though everyone else in the world believed he is just able to play PG.

 

[shazaam6]

Jalen Rose got shafted in Phoenix. He could play but didn't get a chance. I remember a stretch of games where he was playing with the first unit guys and doing well, then his playing time just stopped. Why?

Everyone assumes it was because he COULDN'T play well anymore, but D'antoni's strict 7 or 8 players only policy prevented him from playing his last years in the NBA because now there is a question about Jalen as to why didn't D'antoni play him. No other teams want to take that chance. It ended his career not playing in PHX all because of D'amtoni.

And the garbage time, when he puts in ALL the guys he never plays and then he gets visibly frustrated and basically says "See they suck". Do you honestly think you will see a coherent bench unit play well together under those circumstances? ******* coaching 101.

 

[Irish]

And the garbage time, when he puts in ALL the guys he never plays and then he gets visibly frustrated and basically says "See they suck". Do you honestly think you will see a coherent bench unit play well together under those circumstances? ******* coaching 101.

I have argued along the same lines that the issue of Marks being a player is now open to question. We know Skinner can play but not shoot and we know that Marks can shoot but don't know if he can play. How do we know he can't play. If he could, then D'Antoni would have played him.

I'm not saying the Suns should sign Marks. I have almost no data to go on. But Kerr and Gentry have seen him. If they think he can play, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BC867]

I have argued along the same lines that the issue of Marks being a player is now open to question. We know Skinner can play but not shoot and we know that Marks can shoot but don't know if he can play. How do we know he can't play. If he could, then D'Antoni would have played him.

I'm not saying the Suns should sign Marks. I have almost no data to go on. But Kerr and Gentry have seen him. If they think he can play, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

Good point. The healthiest thing to do going forward is base nothing on the D'Antoni era.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good point. The healthiest thing to do going forward is base nothing on the D'Antoni era.

So I take it you would get rid of Nash and the rest of the gang. You can't have it both ways.

 

[shazaam6]

So I take it you would get rid of Nash and the rest of the gang. You can't have it both ways.

What does this mean? I can't make sense of this response.

 

[shazaam6]

So I take it you would get rid of Nash and the rest of the gang. You can't have it both ways.

I don't follow. What are the two sides for there to be both ways?

Even if it's sarcastic it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't follow. What are the two sides for there to be both ways?

Even if it's sarcastic it doesn't make sense to me.

I'll try to explain my view. D'Antoni needed a particular type of PG to run his system so he went after Nash when it became clear Kobe was not available. D'Antoni also picked the other players to run his system for four highly successful years. If one wants to go with the premise as BC867 presented that "The healthiest thing to do going forward is base nothing on the D'Antoni era." then one has to consider getting rid of the cast of players D'Antoni put together. Obviously this is not going to happen so one has to give credit to D'Antoni for putting together a winning cast. This cannot be totally ignored as suggested.

 

[shazaam6]

Ok thanks.
I took "NOTHING on the D'antoni era" to mean to not base whether a player can play based upon the amount of playing time he was given under D'antoni. I think some of those guys that didn't play at all could have contributed something.

Marion and Amare were here before D'antoni. But I agree D'antoni put together a great offense that was devastating and just a blast to watch. I was hooked of 3 pointer adrenaline from Q. Jimmy Jackson JJr. Bell TT Barbosa and Nash etc With half court and backdoor lobs to Amare and Marion from Nash. And those wraparound behind the defender's back and no look off either hand bounce passes in traffic from Nash.

Ok D'antoni was responsible for allowing us to have the freewheeling shoot quick, gunfighter offense. I give him that. But other teams caught on and he didn't change. That's my frustration. It got to the point last year that we didn't even get many 20 to 4 runs that used to be common for us. Other teams were going on multiple 3 pointers and fast break runs against us. That used to play into our hands. We needed to get some young legs integrated after 4 years but no one was drafted(picks were sold or given away) or playing a few minutes now to be good for next year. Anyway new era.

 

[HooverDam]

I wish D'Antoni would've used the bench more too, but I think this criticism gets largely blown out of proportion. Do you think when Coach D is working with Team USA he tells Coach K "Hey, lets limit the rotation to 7 guys, its for the best"? No of course not. Its not that D'Antoni will only play 7 players, he'll only play guys who are good. If he had better bench players, he would've played them!

What Tyronn Lue is really saying is "I know I am not a good enough player to crack D'Antoni's rotation", which was probably true. I mean, read the rest of the article, Lue goes onto say something completely idiotic like "When you put me around great players, I play a lot better", really Tyronn? Someone get this man a medal, he's a genius.*

*Thats not to say I don't want him on the Suns, I do, he's just not super bright.

 

[msdundee]

"*Thats not to say I don't want him on the Suns, I do, he's just not super bright."

Perfect! He'll fit right in.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I wish D'Antoni would've used the bench more too, but I think this criticism gets largely blown out of proportion. Do you think when Coach D is working with Team USA he tells Coach K "Hey, lets limit the rotation to 7 guys, its for the best"? No of course not. Its not that D'Antoni will only play 7 players, he'll only play guys who are good. If he had better bench players, he would've played them!

What Tyronn Lue is really saying is "I know I am not a good enough player to crack D'Antoni's rotation", which was probably true. I mean, read the rest of the article, Lue goes onto say something completely idiotic like "When you put me around great players, I play a lot better", really Tyronn? Someone get this man a medal, he's a genius.*

*Thats not to say I don't want him on the Suns, I do, he's just not super bright.

Did you just compare the Team USA roster to the suns to defend Dantoni?

Fail.

 

[mojorizen7]

Its not that D'Antoni will only play 7 players, he'll only play guys who are good. If he had better bench players, he would've played them!

What Tyronn Lue is really saying is "I know I am not a good enough player to crack D'Antoni's rotation", which was probably true.

Sorry Hoover but i've got to call

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on that one.
D'Antoni only played the guys that he trusted who could score,run, and pass and wouldn't slow down his 7 sec or less offense. Whats his rotation gonna look like in NY? They're all bad players for the most part & they're guys that don't really fit in to what Mikey wants to run so is he gonna go with a short rotation or a deep one to weed out the slow guys that can't shoot?
I still contend that Mikey D believed that you build an ultra-strong team chemistry with a core group of 7 guys & don't do anything to "F" it up like....develope some young players and/or try to work to build a 9 or 10 man team w/good chemistry(thats hard to do) so he prob figures i'll just take the top 6 or 7 guys and go with it. Why waste time & energy on the rest?
Good riddance to that nonsense.

 

[BC867]

So I take it you would get rid of Nash and the rest of the gang. You can't have it both ways.

I got a kick out of your exaggerated response. Mine was regarding not giving the bench a chance to fill their required role - strength in reserve.

I hardly think that anyone wants Terry Porter to base his leadership on Mike D'Antoni's approach.

If that's what Suns ownership and management wanted, they wouldn't have encouraged D'Antoni to leave.

Get rid of Nash? Of course not.

Keep him fresh for the post-season? Of course.

 

[HooverDam]

Did you just compare the Team USA roster to the suns to defend Dantoni?

Fail.

Great counter point! Did you completely miss what I was trying to say? I'm saying, if D'Antoni had 2 more well rounded players like Boris or LB, he would've played them- thats obvious! Because of the Suns big contracts (especially Marions, which was way too high, but it was understandable at the time), they could never bring in more good players. Plus management always traded away draft picks, so they never got a young player w/ much upside.

 

[Irish]

Are we addicted to weirdness?

I made the point that D'Antoni's rigid rotation made it hard to teall if a guy could play at least in specialty "role player" style.. How else can anyone explain why Eddie House was not re-signed?

We just cannot trust D'Antoni's judgment when it come to evaluating backups and should keep an open mind. How this relates to questiooning Nash's ability seems a tad weird.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Great counter point! Did you completely miss what I was trying to say? I'm saying, if D'Antoni had 2 more well rounded players like Boris or LB, he would've played them- thats obvious! Because of the Suns big contracts (especially Marions, which was way too high, but it was understandable at the time), they could never bring in more good players. Plus management always traded away draft picks, so they never got a young player w/ much upside.

Your point was alluding to the concept that if he had a bench full of Team USA here in phoenix that the 7man rotation would go away.

Not only is it irrelevant it's entirely wrong. He focused on short rotations, it wasnt a matter of what he had to work with. Your cause and effect are switch to defend him.

Your argument didnt deserve a good counterpoint, which is why you received a Fail.

 

[Mainstreet]

I got a kick out of your exaggerated response. Mine was regarding not giving the bench a chance to fill their required role - strength in reserve.

I hardly think that anyone wants Terry Porter to base his leadership on Mike D'Antoni's approach.

If that's what Suns ownership and management wanted, they wouldn't have encouraged D'Antoni to leave.

Get rid of Nash? Of course not.

Keep him fresh for the post-season? Of course.

I'm just saying if one knocks D'Antoni for his perceived weaknesses, one has to give him credit for his strengths. It's only fair, even if one doesn't like him as a coach. He set up a highly successful system in Phoenix and incorporated players that fit his system that averaged approximated 57 wins over the past four seasons which included two WCF's appearances.

You know all this, so give it up for the man and I'll let you keep Steve Nash.

 

[elindholm]

I made the point that D'Antoni's rigid rotation made it hard to teall if a guy could play at least in specialty "role player" style.. How else can anyone explain why Eddie House was not re-signed?

This cannot be a serious question. House was let go because, for every game that he hit a few shots and lit the joint up, there were two or three that he was godawful. Playing House is like pumping coins into a slot machine with a huge house take. Once in a while it will pay off, but usually it just depletes your resources.

The House experiment has failed in Boston as well. Yes, he had one big playoff game, but generally he was a detriment. Boston is looking at free agents to fill his role, and speculation is rampant that House will be elsewhere next season.

In fact, D'Antoni gave House every opportunity to succeed, not only giving him regular minutes far beyond what he deserved, but going out of his way to sing his praises whenever he did something right. It took D'Antoni longer than I expected to figure out that House's weaknesses outweighed his strengths, but he got it eventually.

Yes, D'Antoni preferred a short rotation, to a fault. But the main reason that the 9th-12th guys never got off the bench is that they were scrubs. House is a scrub, Burke is a scrub, Marks is a scrub, Tucker is a scrub. The fervent anti-D'Antoni crowd -- which, bizarrely, is almost exactly the same people who were the fervent pro-D'Antoni crowd, until the moment it became clear he and the Suns were parting ways -- now wants to blame the coach for every last one of the team's shortcomings. But categorizing House as the Key Role Player who Got Away is well beyond the bounds of rational thinking.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

House didn't even in the first 3 finals games IIRC.

 

[Splinters81]

"He set up a highly successful system in Phoenix"


You know, I really do not believe anyone here is really bashing Mike D, but the fact of the matter is, yeah he brought four years of fun to watch basketball to the valley. However you said he was successful??? Maybe at losing to the spurs every damn season. The Celtics we successful, the suns just won a lot of games.

 

[shazaam6]

Yes, D'Antoni preferred a short rotation, to a fault. But the main reason that the 9th-12th guys never got off the bench is that they were scrubs. House is a scrub, Burke is a scrub, Marks is a scrub, Tucker is a scrub. The fervent anti-D'Antoni crowd -- which, bizarrely, is almost exactly the same people who were the fervent pro-D'Antoni crowd, until the moment it became clear he and the Suns were parting ways -- now wants to blame the coach for every last one of the team's shortcomings. But categorizing House as the Key Role Player who Got Away is well beyond the bounds of rational thinking.

true

D'antoni said he plays his bench guys starter's minutes and that they, mainly Barbosa and Diaw, could be starters if they were on other NBA teams. Maybe he would have played 9 or 10 guys if we had 9 or 10 starters.

yeah Sarver and Kerr are to blame

Get me more starters and I'll play more guys!!!!!!!!!!

And defense is overrated

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This cannot be a serious question. House was let go because, for every game that he hit a few shots and lit the joint up, there were two or three that he was godawful. Playing House is like pumping coins into a slot machine with a huge house take. Once in a while it will pay off, but usually it just depletes your resources.

The House experiment has failed in Boston as well. Yes, he had one big playoff game, but generally he was a detriment. Boston is looking at free agents to fill his role, and speculation is rampant that House will be elsewhere next season.

In fact, D'Antoni gave House every opportunity to succeed, not only giving him regular minutes far beyond what he deserved, but going out of his way to sing his praises whenever he did something right. It took D'Antoni longer than I expected to figure out that House's weaknesses outweighed his strengths, but he got it eventually.

Yes, D'Antoni preferred a short rotation, to a fault. But the main reason that the 9th-12th guys never got off the bench is that they were scrubs. House is a scrub, Burke is a scrub, Marks is a scrub, Tucker is a scrub. The fervent anti-D'Antoni crowd -- which, bizarrely, is almost exactly the same people who were the fervent pro-D'Antoni crowd, until the moment it became clear he and the Suns were parting ways -- now wants to blame the coach for every last one of the team's shortcomings. But categorizing House as the Key Role Player who Got Away is well beyond the bounds of rational thinking.

:notworthy